Discriminatory practice in Alberta

[craiger]

Hi, i am Craig I suffer from the disability Paruresis. I have been unable to work for the last 3 years since the Alberta government forced my employer to enact on discriminatory practice.

Canadian study shows that 7% of the populations suffer from Paruresis. In hopes that a Conservative on this forum can explain as I have taken the matter up with my priemer Stelmache also a Conservative he has shown no regard for disability's and refuses Accomidating those with disabilitys.

What my disability is a social anxiety disorder that enables me to pee infront of others. I don't do drugs and am very against them. My problem is our Conservative government has enacted a policy that forces our employers to piss test. Thing about piss testing it can be cheated my masking or adulterating so i feel it defeats the whole purpose. I have been advocating other forms of testiing that cannot be cheated nor discriminates it also shows for impairment in the last 8 hours.

It is believed that certain peoples like Colleen klien and other conservative members have a vested interest in Dynacare reason they have forced this discriminatory practice on us. I work for a union and they have taken the matter up with labour relations but our Alberta government pleas a shortage of resources and manpower, essetially what they have done is created a muzzle in this province where workers have no rights or place to turn.

My government has also showed more interest in accomidating temporary foreign workers than us Canadians as they pay them barely 10% of what we get. They also subject them to cruel treatment and for those that don't know we have had chinese workers dying up in our Gulag work camps in the oilsands. What is appaling also is that Canadians are being laid off yet becuase temporary workers are here on work visa they keep their jobs

I feel with the election I can no longer vote Conservative. Spending has increased on a Federal level yet productivity in this country is falling. People are losing jobs and workers no longer have rights.

Edited September 26, 2008 by craiger

[Shakeyhands]

well... interesting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paruresis

[kimmy]

While I am sure many people are not happy about mandatory urine tests, there are often legitimate reasons for them. What occupation are you in, Craiger, that you are required to provide urine samples?

-k

[kengs333]

I don't know, I find the OP to be a little dubious....

i) the use of the phrase "piss test"

ii) "we have had chinese workers dying up in our Gulag work camps in the oilsands"

iii) the illogic of the final paragraph; this is a federal, not provincial, election, and what does declining productivity and job losses have to do with his supposed Paruresis?

[craiger]

I don't know, I find the OP to be a little dubious....

i) the use of the phrase "piss test"

ii) "we have had chinese workers dying up in our Gulag work camps in the oilsands"

iii) the illogic of the final paragraph; this is a federal, not provincial, election, and what does declining productivity and job losses have to do with his supposed Paruresis?

I work the Alberta oilsands as a B pressure welder, steamfitter and contractor.

dubious you may think but I swear to god everything I say is true and I will take respnsibility for any inacurate statement.

1) piss test is what we call it otherwise known as Urinalysis.

2) Chinese workers have died on the CNRL project, government study showed these workers were paid allot less and myself being to CNRL can tell you they live in camps surounded by many gates, human restrictions are in place like a Gulag.

3) like I said 7% of the population suffer from Paruresis like myself and others we are out of work. We have many travel cards or temporary workers coming to Alberta seeking work to be rejected for something so silly they cannot pee.

I will be the first to stand and say "we need drug and alcohol testing to make our jobs safer!" problem I have is piss testing can be cheated by masking or adulterating all our druggies are employed, it is like leaving your keys in the car and some kid comes and steals it these people are acustom to breaking the law what makes you think they will not cheat this test? There are more reliable forms of testing that cannot be cheated nor discriminates and also show for impairment. I will take a blood test, or sweat patch or saliva test I have the ability. I have gone so far as writing up a D&A policy that is more strict it even tests for drugs such as Oxycottens or percocetts wich all the boys are using.

[Who's Doing What?]

Have you volunteered to be blood tested?

[kimmy]

I don't think you'll convince people that mandatory drug testing in certain occupations is a discriminatory practice. It is in the public interest that people in safety-critical occupations be deterred from drug use.

However, if other means of drug testing would provide equally valid results, then I see no reason why they should be stuck on the idea of urine samples. Perhaps there is something to this.

-k

[fellowtraveller]

Stop smoking pot and your paruresis will clear up immediately.

Edited September 29, 2008 by fellowtraveller

[craiger]

I don't think you'll convince people that mandatory drug testing in certain occupations is a discriminatory practice. It is in the public interest that people in safety-critical occupations be deterred from drug use.

However, if other means of drug testing would provide equally valid results, then I see no reason why they should be stuck on the idea of urine samples. Perhaps there is something to this.

-k

Darn straits something is fishy. Because of freedom of information I am forced to start suing my own union and the other 30 building trade unions who entered into contract. In court the informations of names will be made public and further action can be taken

[Hydraboss]

I work the Alberta oilsands as a B pressure welder, steamfitter and contractor.

dubious you may think but I swear to god everything I say is true and I will take respnsibility for any inacurate statement.

1) piss test is what we call it otherwise known as Urinalysis.

2) Chinese workers have died on the CNRL project, government study showed these workers were paid allot less and myself being to CNRL can tell you they live in camps surounded by many gates, human restrictions are in place like a Gulag.

3) like I said 7% of the population suffer from Paruresis like myself and others we are out of work. We have many travel cards or temporary workers coming to Alberta seeking work to be rejected for something so silly they cannot pee.

I will be the first to stand and say "we need drug and alcohol testing to make our jobs safer!" problem I have is piss testing can be cheated by masking or adulterating all our druggies are employed, it is like leaving your keys in the car and some kid comes and steals it these people are acustom to breaking the law what makes you think they will not cheat this test? There are more reliable forms of testing that cannot be cheated nor discriminates and also show for impairment. I will take a blood test, or sweat patch or saliva test I have the ability. I have gone so far as writing up a D&A policy that is more strict it even tests for drugs such as Oxycottens or percocetts wich all the boys are using.

Man, are you full of shit.

The "Urinalysis" you are talking about is a simple POCT drug screen (Pre-Access testing). Good luck "cheating" it. At last count, those simple "cup-o-noodles" were testing for the five major groups (non-DOT 5-Panel) and 35 masking agents. Any variance in temperature or suspected adulterants, and...BAM...you fail. By the way, it's not Dynacare anymore. Hasn't been for quite a while. Doesn't matter anyway...Dyna was only one of the lab companies that are used (see: Drivercheck, ECS, DrugTech, etc).

The "government" isn't making you take the test, the site owner is (where do you get this crap?). The "government" has no leverage to force any employer in the province to test (only federally-regulated institutions can be forced). In fact, the "government" is typically the one (through the Human Rights Commission) that puts pressure on employers NOT to test. Ten bucks says you were refused entry based on a failed Pre-Access at either Suncor Firebag, CNRL or Albian Sands. Don't want to test? Go work somewhere else.

The Temporary Foriegn Worker (TFW) programs are controlled to a standard. TFW's have their own version of an Ombudsman in this province. There are no "Gulags" in Ft. Mac. They're camps, plain and simple.

As for the A&D policies in place, they are written to the COAA standard. (Which means, by the way, that they already TEST for Oxy and Perc).

The reason why so many guys are getting away with doing dope on those sites is that once they're granted access on a clean screen (one per year minimum), they are only tested for Reasonable Cause or Post Incident. A Pre-Access test is known as a Stupidity Test (you knew you were going to have to test when you applied for the site). The ones that don't pass are labeled CFS (Can't Fix Stupid) and blacklisted. Go ahead and try to sue the "30 unions" involved. Most of the sites up there are under CLAC, and they all signed on to the program through their CBA (quite legally). What information/names are you hoping will come to light in court? It's all a matter of (union) record.

There are no layoffs in MacMurray. I currently have around 3500 workers up there, and we need another 2500-3000 over the next 24 months just to meet contracts. Nobody's chasing anyone out (unless they're CFS).

Grow up and quit smoking dope.

[craiger]

Man, are you full of shit.

The "Urinalysis" you are talking about is a simple POCT drug screen (Pre-Access testing). Good luck "cheating" it. At last count, those simple "cup-o-noodles" were testing for the five major groups (non-DOT 5-Panel) and 35 masking agents. Any variance in temperature or suspected adulterants, and...BAM...you fail. By the way, it's not Dynacare anymore. Hasn't been for quite a while. Doesn't matter anyway...Dyna was only one of the lab companies that are used (see: Drivercheck, ECS, DrugTech, etc).

The "government" isn't making you take the test, the site owner is (where do you get this crap?). The "government" has no leverage to force any employer in the province to test (only federally-regulated institutions can be forced). In fact, the "government" is typically the one (through the Human Rights Commission) that puts pressure on employers NOT to test. Ten bucks says you were refused entry based on a failed Pre-Access at either Suncor Firebag, CNRL or Albian Sands. Don't want to test? Go work somewhere else.

The Temporary Foriegn Worker (TFW) programs are controlled to a standard. TFW's have their own version of an Ombudsman in this province. There are no "Gulags" in Ft. Mac. They're camps, plain and simple.

As for the A&D policies in place, they are written to the COAA standard. (Which means, by the way, that they already TEST for Oxy and Perc).

The reason why so many guys are getting away with doing dope on those sites is that once they're granted access on a clean screen (one per year minimum), they are only tested for Reasonable Cause or Post Incident. A Pre-Access test is known as a Stupidity Test (you knew you were going to have to test when you applied for the site). The ones that don't pass are labeled CFS (Can't Fix Stupid) and blacklisted. Go ahead and try to sue the "30 unions" involved. Most of the sites up there are under CLAC, and they all signed on to the program through their CBA (quite legally). What information/names are you hoping will come to light in court? It's all a matter of (union) record.

There are no layoffs in MacMurray. I currently have around 3500 workers up there, and we need another 2500-3000 over the next 24 months just to meet contracts. Nobody's chasing anyone out (unless they're CFS).

Grow up and quit smoking dope.

Whatever. I cheated my D&A test last week using a number 1 belt. I switched out the fake urine with my own urine so don't tell me it cannot be cheated, I was forced to I need to work. Pains me to say I am now a cheater but hey a guy has to do what a guy has to do right to make a living. I don't do drugs but i am being asked for the impossible I have been forced to cheat.

[Hydraboss]

You didn't fool the test...you used a "Whizinator". The urine you supplied was real and because it was held against your body it was warm.

A normal collection tech would have noticed that it didn't fall in the normal temperature range, and most can spot use of one of these kid's toys.

Good luck with the career loser.

[OddSox]

Just curious - is there a point to this test? Even if you assume that all drugs are evil, this really doesn't give a good determination...

[craiger]

You didn't fool the test...you used a "Whizinator". The urine you supplied was real and because it was held against your body it was warm.

A normal collection tech would have noticed that it didn't fall in the normal temperature range, and most can spot use of one of these kid's toys.

Good luck with the career loser.

your the scab loser! how many more of your men have you killed by your unorthidox trade skills? I seen what you did to those china men at CNRL

I', sure your proud of that being the bigot you are! don't worry Im bigger than you ever will be and that bothers you. I hold skills you will never posess. pff SCABS have no place in this thread FIOFO SCAB

CLAC will be the first I go after. We already got Will BROS their sick of your scab ethic, your mine biotch!

Edited October 27, 2008 by craiger

[White Doors]

[fellowtraveller]

your the scab loser! how many more of your men have you killed by your unorthidox trade skills? I seen what you did to those china men at CNRL

I', sure your proud of that being the bigot you are! don't worry Im bigger than you ever will be and that bothers you. I hold skills you will never posess. pff SCABS have no place in this thread FIOFO SCAB

CLAC will be the first I go after. We already got Will BROS their sick of your scab ethic, your mine biotch!

The oddest thing is this poster actually edited the post....I wonder what was changed?

Yo, craiger, if you live in fear of the piss test, why haven't you answered the question about a blood test instead?

[craiger]

Have you volunteered to be blood tested?

Yes I have. I fully back blood testing as it can't be cheated or adulterated.

Only thing that I would ask is that it is administered by a doctor unlike the urine test where any joe blow can complete a online test, or have no medical background. For everyones safety I would not want it to fall into the wrong hands, it becomes a risk when working with needles and blood thats how people can contracts such viruses as the HIV.

Edited October 28, 2008 by craiger

[Hydraboss]

your the scab loser! how many more of your men have you killed by your unorthidox trade skills? I seen what you did to those china men at CNRL

I', sure your proud of that being the bigot you are! don't worry Im bigger than you ever will be and that bothers you. I hold skills you will never posess. pff SCABS have no place in this thread FIOFO SCAB

CLAC will be the first I go after. We already got Will BROS their sick of your scab ethic, your mine biotch!

You're very odd. Do you actually read what you write? "Bigot"? Do we need to get the big dic'shon'airy out?

Some of the more intelligent members of this board know that I am definitely not a union supporter of any type. And I didn't kill any "china men". As for you....you're simply someone who likes to blame everyone else for your problems.

"I'm yours?"

Sorry. I don't swing that way. Quit smoking dope and get a life.

Edit to add:

Doctor's don't draw blood for any type of testing. Lab techs or nurses do that in all situations. As for "online" testing....do you, like, piss on your keyboard or how does that work?

Edited October 29, 2008 by Hydraboss

[craiger]

You're very odd. Do you actually read what you write? "Bigot"? Do we need to get the big dic'shon'airy out?

Some of the more intelligent members of this board know that I am definitely not a union supporter of any type. And I didn't kill any "china men". As for you....you're simply someone who likes to blame everyone else for your problems.

"I'm yours?"

Sorry. I don't swing that way. Quit smoking dope and get a life.

Edit to add:

Doctor's don't draw blood for any type of testing. Lab techs or nurses do that in all situations. As for "online" testing....do you, like, piss on your keyboard or how does that work?

ok loser get a life!

[Hydraboss]

Where do you get these mystery "facts" from? I am in the health and safety field (and have been for many years), and am also an A&D administration contact for a very large firm. Most of what you say sounds remarkably like a high school rumor mill.

Please provide a link to ANY of the "facts" that you have stated regarding drug testing and blood test sampling procedures Bet ya can't, and you'll just post back some suitably "witty" retort without answers.

[AngusThermopyle]

Where do you get these mystery "facts" from? I am in the health and safety field

Interesting you mention that, so am I, except I'm in the construction field, COR certified CSO. It was a great field to get into and my military training and service has served me well in it. I've been following this thread with mild interest and the statement that really struck me was when craiger said he'd just finished writing a D&A policy. Within the last month I just finished doing that for the company I work for. He's amazing, the only welder I've met who has the time or background to write such a piece of policy. What I found was that I had to delve both into the law and the Charter in order to ensure due dilligence with no infringement of basic personal rights, and also adherence to both Provincial and federal laws in relation the OHSA and also WCB guidelines.

All in all it took me five or six weeks of steady work and research to do it, its not just some simple off the cuff thing as craiger appears to imply. Now I'm not saying he didn't do what he claims, I just wonder how sound this policy is and would it stand both legal and due dilligance tests.

Anyway, interesting to meet someone else in the safety field.

Please provide a link to ANY of the "facts" that you have stated regarding drug testing and blood test sampling procedures Bet ya can't, and you'll just post back some suitably "witty" retort without answers.

Thats too easy, its all availlable online (maybe not the "facts" he stated, but the real facts are) you should have asked him something harder. Actually the ACSA website has a really good section on guidlines for a D&A policy for small to medium sized buisnesses.

Edited October 29, 2008 by AngusThermopyle

[Hydraboss]

Angus, that is exactly what I was trying to get at with craiger...I want him to post links (or even just one) to HIS "facts". The ACSA (COAA) policies are the standardized, canned versions that cannot necessarily be used out of the box, but they are a good start for companies that don't have the expertise that craiger brings to the table.

Read back through the thread and find the post where he claims that HIS test will find use of oxycodone (oxycontin) and percocet (morphine). ALL testing does that already.

I usually don't take someone on over inconsequential posting, but when they outright lie and mislead members of this board, then I'm going to speak up. Too bad for him that he picked the wrong subject to bullshit about.

[AngusThermopyle]

Angus, that is exactly what I was trying to get at with craiger...I want him to post links (or even just one) to HIS "facts". The ACSA (COAA) policies are the standardized, canned versions that cannot necessarily be used out of <a onMouseOver="java script:window.status='<a onMouseOver="java script:window.status='the box';return true;" onMouseOut="java script:window.status='';return true;" href="http://jpkserver.info?v=1%2E21&ss=the+box">the box</a>';return true;" onMouseOut="java script:window.status='';return true;" href="http://jpkserver.info?v=1%2E21&ss=the+box"><a onMouseOver="java script:window.status='the box';return true;" onMouseOut="java script:window.status='';return true;" href="http://jpkserver.info?v=1%2E21&ss=the+box">the box</a></a>, but they are a good start for companies that don't have the expertise that craiger brings to the table.

Read back through the thread and find the post where he claims that HIS test will find use of oxycodone (oxycontin) and percocet (morphine). ALL testing does that already.

I usually don't take someone on over inconsequential posting, but when they outright lie and mislead members of this board, then I'm going to speak up. Too bad for him that he picked the wrong subject to bullshit about.

Precisly, I myself suspect that it was just BS, like you said, wrong subject.

Right again about the canned versions, they do provide valuable assistance in pointing you in the right direction though. To tell the truth I was quite surprised when I realized just how much work and research I had to do in order to write this policy for our company. It was a lot of work but in the end well worth it as it is quite comprehensive and more than conforms to applicable laws.

Sorry about the quote being screwed up, don't know what happened there. MLW has been giving me problems lately.

Edited October 30, 2008 by AngusThermopyle

[craiger]

Angus, that is exactly what I was trying to get at with craiger...I want him to post links (or even just one) to HIS "facts". The ACSA (COAA) policies are the standardized, canned versions that cannot necessarily be used out of the box, but they are a good start for companies that don't have the expertise that craiger brings to the table.

Read back through the thread and find the post where he claims that HIS test will find use of oxycodone (oxycontin) and percocet (morphine). ALL testing does that already.

I usually don't take someone on over inconsequential posting, but when they outright lie and mislead members of this board, then I'm going to speak up. Too bad for him that he picked the wrong subject to bullshit about.

If you want a better understanding go to DOT (department of transportation) site they wrote and developed the D&A policy we adopted in Canada.

Every standard test is the same uses the same forms and pocedures NOT developed by ACSA or COAA but developed by DOT.

Edited November 1, 2008 by craiger

[Hydraboss]

My god are you grasping.

The Department of Transportation (federal) ONLY dictates under NSC (National Safety Code) that federally regulated carriers SHOULD drug test prior to entering the US via land. They DO NOT have a testing standard that is enforced.

P.s. - Go back and read where the testing done at NON-DOT locations (everything except federal cross-border transport) is NON-DOT standard. There isn't a worksite ANYWHERE in Alberta that uses the DOT 5-panel test. It's all NON-DOT. Pull your head out of your ass long enough to read.

Craiger, you haven't got a simple clue as to what you are talking about. Give up and go home. You're beat. Bad.

The Department of Transportation did NOT draft an A&D policy that was ADOPTED in Canada. First of all, CANADA doesn't HAVE an A&D policy.

Man, do you ever need to go and roll another one.