Man Beheaded on Greyhound Bus

[xul]

What are the odds we can ship this looney tune back to China after his sentence (presuming he gets one and isn't treated for a few years in a nut house instead) is done?

If he was a legal Chinese, I mean he carrys a China passport not a Canada passport or other countries', Canada has the right to expel him back China whether he has been granted as a permanent immigrant.

But it seems Li doesn't carry a China passport now. I read a newsletter from a HK media yeaterday which said the reporter had called China consulate in Winnipeg and they told him Canadian police had not informed them about the arrest of Li so far, so they though Li might carry other countries's passport for if he was Chinese nationality the police would inform China embassy at the first time, though his name shows he has Chinese bloodline.

[Guest American Woman]

Do you actually know he is an immigrant or are you simply assuming that?

According to ctv online, he immigrated to Canada in 2004.

Since someone applying for Canadian citizenship has to have been a legal permanent resident for at least three years, and since routine applications to retain citizenship are processed in approximately 15 to 18 months, it seems unlikely that he would be a Canadian citizen.

Edited August 4, 2008 by American Woman

[TomS]

That's crazy. By your logic then, we wouldn't let anyone skydive because of the possibility of a chute not opening, no more launches to space because of a very real possibility of a shuttle blowing up, etc. etc. Over reaction is not the way.

Not in my world.

I don't know what stun guns are if you don't mean tasers and this country is already too taser happy. Pepper spray is good. That way when they break down on a lonely country road in the dark they won't be afraid of bears.

Thats not crazy at all. It is completely logical to try to prevent lunatics from killing you. She didn't say that nobody should ride on transit, skydive, or go to the moon. Nice try on changing the subject. Every thing possible is being done to make space travel, and skydiving safe, why is it illogical to want the same for bus travel.

As far as " Not in my world", I don't know who you are but this not your world, it is "Ours".

[TomS]

What I heard on a news report was the killer was 39 or 40 years old and the victim was a young First Nation guy, maybe late teen or early twenty from out of province. Now I know there are people who hate certains groups of people and IF that is the case here then the killer should die himself. Of course , maybe the killer was on some kind of drugs and just not mentally there.

Are you saying that this Chinese imigrant should be executed only if the victim was a visible minority. Man, pollitical correct teachings are certainly working well, sadly.

[TomS]

Why didn't any of the women come to his aid? After all, we are all equal, are we not?

I think perhaps it has been so long since our society has had a lot of personal violence in our daily lives that people have forgotten just how dangerous a man with a knife can be. To go up against such an opponent, particularly a crazy one, unarmed is just suicidal stupidity for anyone but a Hollywood ninja.

I had read that the attacker had made moves on other passengers but that they managed to escape in time. So likely it was not a specific attack on a specific victim. This guy likely would have proceeded to kill the entire busload of people if not stopped.

How could such a horror ever have happened? After all, we had registered all the guns!

I guess we need a knife registry.

Just wait, I hear the Liberals are discussing knife registration.

[TomS]

It's a disgusting and warped story for sure. However arming low-educated people with firearms just to transport people wouyld be disasterous.

Low educated people??

[TomS]

Interesting. I've never seen such statistics. In fact, those I have seen say the opposite.

Since it's your point, how about defending it with a link or two giving those statistics?

I would truly be interested.

I suggest you read " More Guns Less Crime", author Prof. John Lott, Univ. of Illinois.

[TomS]

Wikipedia: Gun ownership rates

Navigate lower in the page for "List of countries by firearm-related death rate ".

Note that all countries with high gun ownership rate (e.g Switzerland) also have higher gun death rates (homicides and suicides). To dispell popular myth propagated by gun lobby. The exception of Canada (average ownership rate, higher homicide rate) can probably be explained by illegal guns flowing from south. Ie. the actual, "real terms" gun ownership rate, including illegal guns in Canada would be higher than that indicated in the table. Bringing it on par with other high ownership countries (Finland, Switzerland, ~0.6-0.8 / 100,000) but nowhere as high as the all time leader down south (3.7 / 100,000).

Now it would be interesting to examine those stats that you mentioned. I suggest to continue this discussion in the "Crime" thread though, as it isn't directly related to this topic.

I find it interesting that while presenting what you "claim" as facts you provide exceptions.

[TomS]

No, it's relevant because while bizzare crackpots will always be with us, the results of their acts can be linked very closely to their chance of getting more or more powerful guns. As any number of similar incidents will demonstrate. This time it's a knife. Next, it could be a semi. Or a bunch of them. One can't control people going crack, it just happens. One can control access to guns. But in some minds the two just aren't connected.

Actually "you" or the "State" can't control either, people cracking or guns, but we can allow people to defend themselves

[jdobbin]

Just wait, I hear the Liberals are discussing knife registration.

Baloney. And the Tories are issuing one to each child in Kindergarten for protection?

[TomS]

Baloney. And the Tories are issuing one to each child in Kindergarten for protection?

Why wouldn't the Liberals discuss a knife registry, I'm sure it would work as well as their assinine gun registry.

[jdobbin]

Why wouldn't the Liberals discuss a knife registry, I'm sure it would work as well as their assinine gun registry.

If the extreme right wing is just going to lie about things, it certainly doesn't help their credibility.

[TomS]

If the extreme right wing is just going to lie about things, it certainly doesn't help their credibility.

Let me know what is extreme about pointing out the assinnine legislation from the "LEFT", or what part is a lie.

Edited August 5, 2008 by TomS

[jdobbin]

Let me know what is extreme about pointing out the assinnine legislation from the "LEFT", or what part is a lie.

The extreme right wing lie is about a knife registry.

[TomS]

The extreme right wing lie is about a knife registry.

I said I heard the Liberals were discussing it, that is absolutely true. By the way I don't speak for the EXTREME RIGHT OR ANYBODY ELSE

Edited August 5, 2008 by TomS

[jdobbin]

I said I heard the Liberals were discussing it, that is absolutely true. By the way I don't speak for the EXTREME RIGHT OR ANYBODY ELSE

Citation for this discussion?

[jbg]

I said I heard the Liberals were discussing it, that is absolutely true. By the way I don't speak for the EXTREME RIGHT OR ANYBODY ELSE

I personally speak for the extreme left. Those registries would have prevented Homulka and Bernardo from hurting anyone.

[jbg]

Link

When I read about an incident like this, it makes me wonder if drivers of public transportation should be armed. Also, I haven't traveled by bus since 9-11 so I'm wondering what kind of security, if any, passengers must go through.

Armed? I think the proper treatment should be psychotherapy and sensitivity. See song lyrics below (link).

DELETED by moderator

Edited August 5, 2008 by Charles Anthony
copywritten material deleted

[AngusThermopyle]

so they though Li might carry other countries's passport for if he was Chinese nationality the police would inform China embassy at the first time, though his name shows he has Chinese bloodline.

Sorry Xul, it appears he is indeed Chinese. I just finished reading an article in the paper that said he and his wife were recent arrivals in Canada. He apparently worked two jobs, one delivering newspapers and the other working in the automotive department in Walmart. He and his wife lived in Edmonton.

I fail to see what his nationality has to do with the fact that he appears to be a real true to life nutjob though. Is it possible that he cracked because of the fact that he had to work two dead end menial jobs? The man has to be insane in order to do what he did. Not only did he hack off the head but also other body parts which he then proceeded to eat.

Perhaps more information will come to light when the police are done with the analysis of his laptop. That in itself is an interesting story. They obtained the laptop from a kid who had bought it from him. The kid states that he noticed Mr. Li sitting on a bench outside a Greyhound station in Manitoba, he was still there the next day. He had his laptop sitting next to him with a for sale sign on it, he was asking $500.00 obo. The kid offered him $60.00 for it which he accepted. This indicates that he was desperate for money, also the fact that he left his wife in Edmonton would indicate a high degree of desperation.

It looks like it may be a while before we know what really lead up to this incident, if we ever fully do.

[Oleg Bach]

Sorry Xul, it appears he is indeed Chinese. I just finished reading an article in the paper that said he and his wife were recent arrivals in Canada. He apparently worked two jobs, one delivering newspapers and the other working in the automotive department in Walmart. He and his wife lived in Edmonton.

I fail to see what his nationality has to do with the fact that he appears to be a real true to life nutjob though. Is it possible that he cracked because of the fact that he had to work two dead end menial jobs? The man has to be insane in order to do what he did. Not only did he hack off the head but also other body parts which he then proceeded to eat.

Perhaps more information will come to light when the police are done with the analysis of his laptop. That in itself is an interesting story. They obtained the laptop from a kid who had bought it from him. The kid states that he noticed Mr. Li sitting on a bench outside a Greyhound station in Manitoba, he was still there the next day. He had his laptop sitting next to him with a for sale sign on it, he was asking $500.00 obo. The kid offered him $60.00 for it which he accepted. This indicates that he was desperate for money, also the fact that he left his wife in Edmonton would indicate a high degree of desperation.

It looks like it may be a while before we know what really lead up to this incident, if we ever fully do.

Why do I feel like the Canadian version of the statue of liberty and - I mutter - give me your tired and poor and mentally ill evil sons of bitches - bring them here and have them butcher us...like sheep - I feel that this guy simply hated white people....he was trained in China and if you have ever communicated electronically with main land China - and as we know only the highly trained propogandists are allowed internet access to the world - the hate us - and they have a long term agenda that happens to be to get rid of all "fat Americans" - they hold us in utter hate and contempt - and we enrich them via - Walmart? Are we nuts - I say off with his frinking head and send it back stuck on the Olympic torch....damn the bastards - mental illness? Bullshit - pure hate is more like it.

[AngusThermopyle]

Thanks for that obviously studied and well thought out post Olegh, you certainly ramped up the discussion a notch or two.

[Guest American Woman]

Why do I feel like the Canadian version of the statue of liberty and - I mutter - give me your tired and poor and mentally ill evil sons of bitches - bring them here and have them butcher us...like sheep - I feel that this guy simply hated white people....he was trained in China and if you have ever communicated electronically with main land China - and as we know only the highly trained propogandists are allowed internet access to the world - the hate us - and they have a long term agenda that happens to be to get rid of all "fat Americans" - they hold us in utter hate and contempt - and we enrich them via - Walmart? Are we nuts - I say off with his frinking head and send it back stuck on the Olympic torch....damn the bastards - mental illness? Bullshit - pure hate is more like it.

I have a friend in China who I met on a trip to Beijing eight years ago. He is a wonderful person with a beautiful wife and a daughter who's just too cute. He's allowed internet access; it's how we stay in touch. He was planning on immigrating to Canada a couple of years ago, and you would have been lucky to have him.

[mikedavid00]

According to ctv online, he immigrated to Canada in 2004.

Gee.. there's a suprise. Funny how you guys were late to find out. It was burried deep in the media but I found out days ago.

For how many years have I sat here warning people of our immigrations system.

What happened on the bus was ultimetly an immigration issue. Nothing more, nothing less.

The above statement is 100% factual.

Going into anything further is fantasmigorical idealistic for another thread about humanity.

Canada is letting mentally ill, criminals into Canada who simply should not be here. He's here to work at walmart? Lets get real.

He's really in Edmonton to make sure the Liberal party eventually gains power. Nothing more, nothing less. That's ultimatily why he's there - not to benefit Canadians.

I should send the family an email and voice my concerns.

[Visionseeker]

Having this year successfully argued in the Supreme Court of Canada about the difference between first and second degree murder, I am again baffled by the media's inability to properly explain the issue, and the public's unwillingness to learn.

In Canada, any murder conviction is an automatic life sentence. That's it...could not be any more simple. As a convicted murderer, you will never finish serving your sentence until you yourself are dead.

The difference in penalty is only regarding parole elligibility (please note...not parole, but parole elligibility).

First degree murder automatically means you cannot even apply for parole until you serve 25 years.

Second degree murder is not automatically anything. The sentencing judge will set the parole elligibility which has to be a minimum of 10 years.

Again, elligibility...not parole.

Once you are elligible, you apply to the National Parole Board for parole and they will either grant or deny based on a multitude of criteria (the propriety of which I do not comment on in this post). If you get parole, you are always subject to conditions, breaches of which result in parole revocation without any trial and almost without any form of due process. After all, you are still serving your sentence, so being out is truly a privilege and not a right at this point.

The exception to the above is the "faint hope clause". If you get parole elligibility set at more than 15 years (automatic in 1st deg., by the judge in 2nd deg.) then after you serve at least 15 years, you can apply to a judge for approval to apply to a jury to seek a reduction in your elligibility.

If the judge finds your application could succeed, then you get to try to convince the jury. If they unanimously agree, then you get the ability to apply early to the National Parole Board for parole. The NPB will always have the final say on whether you actually get parole.

As for the substantive difference, people often mistakenly believe that 1st degree murder is for brutal killing whereas 2nd degree is for some less horrific form of murder. Actually, the brutality (or lack of) has nothing whatsoever to do with it.

For a murder to attract the automatic more serious punishment of a 1st degree murder, it has to have been planned and the plan must have been deliberated upon. That is, the offender has to actually have a plan and take some time to reflect on the pros and cons of such plan. Even after such consideration, if a person goes ahead and commits the murder, then they do so with the highest moral blameworthiness.

So, if I make a very simple plan to put poison in a child-molester's drink and I consider the consequences of the plan...and decide to go ahead with it, I am guilty of first degree murder. It doesn't matter that the murder was not gruesome and the victim was evil.

On the contrary, if I have no plan, don't particularly weigh what I am about to do and on an apparent whim commit a horrendous murder such as what happened on that bus, it will be second degree murder. Again, it doesn't matter that the murder is horrific and violent and that the victim is a blameless good kid.

Hope this helps.

FTA

This is an excellent summation of murder sentencing and parole eligibility criterion. Too bad that most here can’t see past their penchant for a pound of flesh to read the lesson, let alone allow it to sink in.

Bon courage FTA. Bon courage.

Edited August 7, 2008 by Visionseeker

[mikedavid00]

Thats not crazy at all. It is completely logical to try to prevent lunatics from killing you.

That is false.

Simply don't let them in the country. Problem solved. What he does in China is not our problem.

Now Xul will arrive and also become Canada's problem (althrough I'm sure he wont kill anyone). He is well aware that there are no jobs for him (or us) here in Canada, so why does he insist on coming with his wife and kids?

Ah yes...

Enjoy your free lunch on my tab. I'm seriously tired of paying for you guys to come to Canada when you simply are not needed. Your kids will use our school and you our services and you have never contributed and probably will never do so.

People are offended? Oh but Xul's one of us.. a Canadian on the forum so I guess I should be able to talk to him like anyone else from Canada..

Or is he.. somehow.. 'special' where I cannot say anything to the almight Canadian immigrant that stats show simply do not net contribute regardless of the class they arrived under.

This is a new year and era of open discussion about immigration in Canada and the Liberal multicultural days of keeping our mouth shut have died after Dion got elected.

No xul, you're not needed here. And our policy caused this person one of my fellow Canadians to get killed. And no, being a Canadian is not a peice of paper or document. It is to you, not to me.