Will lower crime rate hurt Conservatives?

Smallc · July 21, 2008

Campaigning on implementing taxes is rarely a wise move. Dion is certainly taking a risk here. But sometimes risk nets rewards. Dion might be on to something here that Canadians are warm to.

If Dion wins, there is no good that can come of it. It would be a very bad thing for Canada.

jdobbin · July 21, 2008

If Dion wins, there is no good that can come of it. It would be a very bad thing for Canada.

Talk about the politics of fear.

jdobbin · July 21, 2008

Maybe so, but those crimes still occur next door or across the street from somebody. "Close to home" doesn't just mean being a victim.

Yes, that's what I was talking about when I was talking about fear of crime in contrast to being a victim of crime.

It is violent crime that mostly occurs between people who know each other and who engage in high risk behaviour.

The right wing would prefer to focus on random violence where everyone should be scared.

Wild Bill · July 21, 2008

Yes, that's what I was talking about when I was talking about fear of crime in contrast to being a victim of crime.
It is violent crime that mostly occurs between people who know each other and who engage in high risk behaviour.

The right wing would prefer to focus on random violence where everyone should be scared.

I wasn't aware that the entire "right wing" felt that way. I guess you must know them all in order to make that blanket generalization.

Does that mean the "left wing" prefers to ignore ALL violence, while NO ONE is afraid?

I've been lumped into that "rightwing" category and from some of your earlier posts I was quite surprised to find out that I must be religious! More than that, I must belong to an American fundamentalist christian church!

Seriously, when I hear words such as yours it sounds like you are emphasizing perception rather than reality, as if there's no problem except too many people are listening to scaremongers so therefore no action should be taken.

Or as if that necessary action should be to cheerlead, rather than examine if our courts or legal system are being effective.

In other words, the problem is how we all FEEL about it!

If I've misunderstood you, please explain.

jdobbin · July 21, 2008

I wasn't aware that the entire "right wing" felt that way. I guess you must know them all in order to make that blanket generalization.
Does that mean the "left wing" prefers to ignore ALL violence, while NO ONE is afraid?

I've been lumped into that "rightwing" category and from some of your earlier posts I was quite surprised to find out that I must be religious! More than that, I must belong to an American fundamentalist christian church!

I can't recall making any comment about your religion. In fact, I don't think I've comment about religion and the right ever.

The right wing in Canada politically and socially has taken a stand on crime and talk about what needs to be done. The ad in Manitoba featuring a scared woman in a parking garage didn't go the way the PC party wanted it to go. It certainly didn't lead to victory. It basically accused the NDP of making women potential rape victims.

Likewise, when the federal Tory party decided to unilaterally make a decision on the death penalty for Canadians outside of Canada, it proved to be an unpopular choice.

When statistics show that crime is down and who the usual victims are, the right wing should focus on how to address those problems. Maybe then, the government could come up with some innovative ways to address those problems rather than making the majority fear they are going to be victim to violent crime.

capricorn · July 21, 2008

When statistics show that crime is down and who the usual victims are, the right wing should focus on how to address those problems. Maybe then, the government could come up with some innovative ways to address those problems rather than making the majority fear they are going to be victim to violent crime.

I guess the Liberals learned about using fear mongering with the backlash to the "soldiers in our streets" election ad. I expect the Conservatives watching that fiasco unfold also learned from it.

jdobbin · July 21, 2008

I guess the Liberals learned about using fear mongering with the backlash to the "soldiers in our streets" election ad. I expect the Conservatives watching that fiasco unfold also learned from it.

We see how well that worked out for the Liberals.

By all means, try to duplicate what the PCs did in Manitoba and good luck.

Fortunata · July 22, 2008

I guess the Liberals learned about using fear mongering with the backlash to the "soldiers in our streets" election ad. I expect the Conservatives watching that fiasco unfold also learned from it.

They haven't seemed to. Look at all the attack ads and not even election time. So the Cons aren't above fearmongering themselves. Come to think of it the Cons aren't above anything at all!

Visionseeker · July 22, 2008

If Dion wins, there is no good that can come of it. It would be a very bad thing for Canada.

You’re right! I’m simply terrified by the prospect. I must bow to your prescience. BTW, can you give me a line on next week’s lotto numbers?[/sarcasm]

blueblood · July 22, 2008

We see how well that worked out for the Liberals.
By all means, try to duplicate what the PCs did in Manitoba and good luck.

The PCs in MB didn't have a prayer of winning that election. Doer like you said is one of the most popular political leaders in the country.

Winnipeg is also one of the most left leaning areas in the country, along with the north. Not only that the NDP redefined the election boundaries creating a "fortress winnipeg" according to the PCs.

Expect the Liberals to nab some seats in Winnipeg over the ridiculous anti business attitude of the NDP as of late.

Smallc · July 22, 2008

Expect the Liberals to nab some seats in Winnipeg over the ridiculous anti business attitude of the NDP as of late.

I don't think that will be a problem. Manitoba is experiencing tremendous growth right now. People are still quite happy with the NDP.

Smallc · July 22, 2008

You’re right! I’m simply terrified by the prospect. I must bow to your prescience. BTW, can you give me a line on next week’s lotto numbers?[/sarcasm]

I'm terrified by the prospect. He's a horrible leader and he as bad ideas.

jdobbin · July 22, 2008

The PCs in MB didn't have a prayer of winning that election. Doer like you said is one of the most popular political leaders in the country.
Winnipeg is also one of the most left leaning areas in the country, along with the north. Not only that the NDP redefined the election boundaries creating a "fortress winnipeg" according to the PCs.

Expect the Liberals to nab some seats in Winnipeg over the ridiculous anti business attitude of the NDP as of late.

The Probe Research poll that came out last week suggested there has been no change in support for the provincial parties. The Tories have dropped in rural Manitoba but gained in the city of Winnipeg.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/sto...p-4790214c.html

Support for Manitoba's three political parties is as flat as a Manitoba horizon, according to a new poll.
At 46 per cent, Premier Gary Doer's NDP still holds a firm grasp on power nearly eight years after forming government. The NDP is polling about 10 percentage points ahead of the Progressive Conservatives, who earned 36 per cent support. The Liberals have the support of 13 per cent of those polled, according to a new omnibus poll done last month by Probe Research for the Winnipeg Free Press.

The three parties have barely moved a point or two in five years, flatlining at the same level of support each enjoyed after the 2003 election.

In terms of federal support, the Harper Tories have dropped.

http://www.probe-research.com/080715%20Fed...%20Politics.pdf

The battle for Winnipeg means that Tories could lose Winnipeg South.

Argus · July 22, 2008

They haven't seemed to. Look at all the attack ads and not even election time. So the Cons aren't above fearmongering themselves. Come to think of it the Cons aren't above anything at all!

Aren't you a Liberal?

Didn't your last PM pressure the Business Development Bank of Canada into "loaning" half a million bucks to a business associate so he could pay the PM the money he owed him? And didn't that business associate, who had a criminal record, pay nothing back, and then get charged with arson? And didn't that PM then have the president of the BDC fired for trying to call in the loan, and then try to have him imprisoned for going public?

When the Tories stoop as low as that you can complain.

Keepitsimple · July 22, 2008

Statistics! They've been presented as if there is a threshold number that we should accept as being OK. Common sense dictates that there are different approaches that can be taken for different categories of criminality. REPEAT VIOLENT offenders should be hit with a big, heavy stick. REPEATED violence is almost impossible to rehabilitate. Not only should the sentences reflect society's abhorrance to the crime but society must also be protected from future violence perpetrated by these offenders. There's plenty of room in our justice system for carrots....but when crimes become habitual or escalate to violence, society must start to show the stick and finally hit them with the stick.

Fortunata · July 22, 2008

Aren't you a Liberal?

Nope, I'm surely not.

When the Tories stoop as low as that you can complain.

Ah yes, ... but the Liberals. Muck is muck. When you wade in it you stink just as bad as those who wallow.

noahbody · July 22, 2008

I'm terrified by the prospect. He's a horrible leader and he as bad ideas.

What do you mean? His idea of bringing Taliban prisoners over to Canada would have not only solved the associated problem, but it would have also raised our population thereby lowering our per capita greenhouse gas targets. That's brilliant.

blueblood · July 22, 2008

I don't think that will be a problem. Manitoba is experiencing tremendous growth right now. People are still quite happy with the NDP.

Saskatchewan experienced even greater growth and their NDP got scattered the four winds.

Winnipeg people are quite happy with the NDP because they are left leaning, even though most of the economic growth is in western Manitoba.

In my honest opinion, it doesn't make sense to have a provincial government in Manitoba, the population is too concentrated. More power should be given to Winnipeg city hall, instead of having the legislature as City Hall No. 2.

blueblood · July 22, 2008

The Probe Research poll that came out last week suggested there has been no change in support for the provincial parties. The Tories have dropped in rural Manitoba but gained in the city of Winnipeg.
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/sto...p-4790214c.html

In terms of federal support, the Harper Tories have dropped.

http://www.probe-research.com/080715%20Fed...%20Politics.pdf

The battle for Winnipeg means that Tories could lose Winnipeg South.

That is surprising about the NDP, but their actions are cannon fodder for Liberal and Tories.

Struthers and Wowchuck are history.

Wouldn't surprise me if the Tories lost Wpg. South and their other Wpg. riding. They won South by only 11 votes.

Smallc · July 23, 2008

Saskatchewan experienced even greater growth and their NDP got scattered the four winds.
Winnipeg people are quite happy with the NDP because they are left leaning, even though most of the economic growth is in western Manitoba.

In my honest opinion, it doesn't make sense to have a provincial government in Manitoba, the population is too concentrated. More power should be given to Winnipeg city hall, instead of having the legislature as City Hall No. 2.

There is a province beyond Winnipeg, and there are many things going on. The province is doing and has been doing very well under the NDP. If Gary Doer runs again, there is no question he will win.

Visionseeker · July 23, 2008

Aren't you a Liberal?
Didn't your last PM pressure the Business Development Bank of Canada into "loaning" half a million bucks to a business associate so he could pay the PM the money he owed him? And didn't that business associate, who had a criminal record, pay nothing back, and then get charged with arson? And didn't that PM then have the president of the BDC fired for trying to call in the loan, and then try to have him imprisoned for going public?

I am in no way seeking to defend Chrétien with this reply but…

When the Tories stoop as low as that you can complain.

The experiences of Linda Keen show that they are capable of coming in a close and reprehensible second.

blueblood · July 23, 2008

There is a province beyond Winnipeg, and there are many things going on. The province is doing and has been doing very well under the NDP. If Gary Doer runs again, there is no question he will win.

Tell that to the NDP and the residents of winnipeg that there is a province outside of winnipeg. This province is doing well in spite of the NDP, Saskatchewan bought into that and tossed Calvert on his ass. The province isn't doing that well, just cross the border into Saskatchewan-> that's a province that is doing well, manitoba has lots of ground to make up.

Smallc · July 23, 2008

Tell that to the NDP and the residents of winnipeg that there is a province outside of winnipeg. This province is doing well in spite of the NDP, Saskatchewan bought into that and tossed Calvert on his ass. The province isn't doing that well, just cross the border into Saskatchewan-> that's a province that is doing well, manitoba has lots of ground to make up.

Yeah, ok, just because you don't like the Manitoba NDP does not mean their doing a bad job. There are many examples that prove otherwise. The Manitoba NDP is not a socialist party, it actually seems that its role in this province and the role of the Liberals are reversed. I wouldn't support them if they were a real NDP party, but they aren't.

http://www.conferenceboard.ca/press/2008/p...al-winter08.asp

I've been to Saskatchewan, they are doing well, but they are doing well because of where they happen to be sitting. Manitoba will do well for the same reason. We are only beginning to see the benefits of hydro sales and there are ongoing resource explorations in the south and west. The North of Manitoba and the City of Winnipeg are really on fire with the rate of expansion and growth. I don't deny that Saskatchewan is doing quite well, but we're doing very well also. People just seem to love to complain, they think the grass is always greener somewhere else. They would think that no matter what. You seem to be one of those people.

blueblood · July 23, 2008

Yeah, ok, just because you don't like the Manitoba NDP does not mean their doing a bad job. There are many examples that prove otherwise. The Manitoba NDP is not a socialist party, it actually seems that its role in this province and the role of the Liberals are reversed. I wouldn't support them if they were a real NDP party, but they aren't.
http://www.conferenceboard.ca/press/2008/p...al-winter08.asp

I've been to Saskatchewan, they are doing well, but they are doing well because of where they happen to be sitting. Manitoba will do well for the same reason. We are only beginning to see the benefits of hydro sales and there are ongoing resource explorations in the south and west. The North of Manitoba and the City of Winnipeg are really on fire with the rate of expansion and growth. I don't deny that Saskatchewan is doing quite well, but we're doing very well also. People just seem to love to complain, they think the grass is always greener somewhere else. They would think that no matter what. You seem to be one of those people.

The grass is greener, Saskatchewan is a have province and Manitoba is a have not. SK has resources and so does MB. Welcome to how the NDP runs things.

Smallc · July 23, 2008

The grass is greener, Saskatchewan is a have province and Manitoba is a have not. SK has resources and so does MB. Welcome to how the NDP runs things.

Saskatchewan became a have province under the NDP. MB is just beginning to access the resources. There are so many things goingon right in the open, its a shame so many can't see them.