msj Posted May 17, 2008 Report Posted May 17, 2008 Well, at least we agree on the 5000 figure as being unreliable data! However, when YOU state "I would think..." we're talking opinion, not science. The fact that the man in question has impressed you cuts no ice with assuming he's right. That's just not science. He is right or he is wrong. It's up to him to prove his premise, not for others to prove him wrong. I'm still waiting for proof that climate change is the fault of Man. Or that polar bear populations are truly under threat. I don't believe someone just because they are impressive. I wised up after voting for Mulroney! Reputation can offer confidence but not command blind belief. And yes, I wasn't really targeting your scientist hero specifically, just commenting on what I see as a common tactic of many green spokespeople. We can agree that a specific datum is questionable. If they offer it as contributing to a proof they'd need more to be convincing. Wild Bill, we are not going to agree about this. The only point of presenting an actual scientists' POV was to demonstrate that the OP was waaaaay off by using unreliable data. That has been done. The rest is just a waste of time of you trying to convince me and me trying to convince you. It's not going to happen so let's move on... Quote If a believer demands that I, as a non-believer, observe his taboos in the public domain, he is not asking for my respect but for my submission. And that is incompatible with a secular democracy. Flemming Rose (Dutch journalist) My biggest takeaway from economics is that the past wasn't as good as you remember, the present isn't as bad as you think, and the future will be better than you anticipate. Morgan Housel http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/01/14/things-im-pretty-sure-about.aspx
Wild Bill Posted May 17, 2008 Report Posted May 17, 2008 Wild Bill, we are not going to agree about this. The only point of presenting an actual scientists' POV was to demonstrate that the OP was waaaaay off by using unreliable data. That has been done. The rest is just a waste of time of you trying to convince me and me trying to convince you. It's not going to happen so let's move on... Agreed! Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
Bryan Posted May 17, 2008 Report Posted May 17, 2008 msj, No matter what source you use, no matter which hard data you like or which estimates you do or do not factor in, one thing remains the same no matter what: Polar bear populations are increasing. There is debate as to what degree they are increasing, and as when and where they are migrating, but there is no debate that the population is increasing. The reason why the environmental movement gets the "rolleyes" treatment more often these days, is because people are tired of being lied to. Suzuki and his contemporaries are going around telling us that Polar Bears are dying off, when we know for a fact that he's lying. You can't get caught lying time and time again, and expect people to take you seriously. Quote
msj Posted May 17, 2008 Report Posted May 17, 2008 (edited) msj,No matter what source you use, no matter which hard data you like or which estimates you do or do not factor in, one thing remains the same no matter what: Polar bear populations are increasing. There is debate as to what degree they are increasing, and as when and where they are migrating, but there is no debate that the population is increasing. The reason why the environmental movement gets the "rolleyes" treatment more often these days, is because people are tired of being lied to. Suzuki and his contemporaries are going around telling us that Polar Bears are dying off, when we know for a fact that he's lying. You can't get caught lying time and time again, and expect people to take you seriously. The point here is that there are other reasons for polar bear population to increase - namely less harvesting.... This has already been addressed. I will add one more reason polar bears may do okay going forward: adaptation. They may be able to adapt to hunt just as well on land as they do on ice but this is pure speculation on my part so take it with the necessary salt.... Edited May 17, 2008 by msj Quote If a believer demands that I, as a non-believer, observe his taboos in the public domain, he is not asking for my respect but for my submission. And that is incompatible with a secular democracy. Flemming Rose (Dutch journalist) My biggest takeaway from economics is that the past wasn't as good as you remember, the present isn't as bad as you think, and the future will be better than you anticipate. Morgan Housel http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/01/14/things-im-pretty-sure-about.aspx
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 17, 2008 Report Posted May 17, 2008 ....I will add one more reason polar bears may do okay going forward: adaptation. They may be able to adapt to hunt just as well on land as they do on ice but this is pure speculation on my part so take it with the necessary salt.... Polar bears have already demonstrated such adaptability, being relatively recent adaptations of their older land dwelling cousins. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
jbg Posted May 18, 2008 Report Posted May 18, 2008 The rest of the data is guess work. Your artical is full of holesThat goes for all global warming "science". Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Oleg Bach Posted May 18, 2008 Report Posted May 18, 2008 That goes for all global warming "science". It should not be called global warming but disruption of weather due to natural change enhanced by a billion humans blowing smoke out their butts. I have never men an environist that grew up with mud between their toes and speared pike while snorkling in a deep weedy kettle lake as a kid..and eating what we caught..Todays environmentalists are book smart disconnected cause fixated freaks..most run from bugs and go hide in their condos. Quote
Borg Posted May 18, 2008 Report Posted May 18, 2008 How do these nutbar environmentalists get so much media attention with such claptrap? Is it just lazy journalism yet again? No different than our own famous Dion. Perhaps one should compare him and other enviro-terrorists to Josef Goebbels. Tell a lie big enough often enough, people will believe it. Borg Quote
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