Smear tactics in Ottawa

[Michael Bluth]

Indefensible only in that it didn't need defending. Personally, I would feel foolish bothering to debate with people whose miscomprehension is either a deliberate attempt to be frustrating or is derived from an intellectual challenge.

Neither of those are the case. I guess it's a good thing you aren't implying that I suffer from an intellectual challenge. Such a response would be an example of an insult which would make an excellent case study of the hypocrisy of the left. Freedom of religion and protection against hate speech, unless it's a religion we don't find fashionable or speech we don't approve of.

Snide remarks about Jews, making fun of the religion and Hebrew. All are examples of anti-semitism.

[jdobbin]

Indefensible only in that it didn't need defending. Personally, I would feel foolish bothering to debate with people whose miscomprehension is either a deliberate attempt to be frustrating or is derived from an intellectual challenge. Nonetheless, it does provide an exellent case study of how conservatives believe the electorate has a very low level of understanding of the overall debate, and that you can just throw around completely baseless smears in the hopes they will stick. I suppose it's an approach that has had some electoral success in the past, but I think people are starting to catch on.

It is sort of how Harper tried to smear Rae as anti-Semite even though his wife and children are Jewish.

[Shakeyhands]

It is sort of how Harper tried to smear Rae as anti-Semite even though his wife and children are Jewish.

I'd totally forgotten that... very true. Imagine....

Edited May 25, 2008 by Shakeyhands

[Wild Bill]

I'd totally forgotten that... very true. Imagine....

Aren't you stretching things a mite? I recall the issue to be one of Rae against Israeli foreign policy. Rae seemed to feel that Israel "should turn the other cheek" instead of retaliating when some Palestinian group lobbed a few rockets onto their homes and schools.

Being against Israeli defending itself doesn't make you an anti-semite. Just stupid!

[Shakeyhands]

Aren't you stretching things a mite? I recall the issue to be one of Rae against Israeli foreign policy. Rae seemed to feel that Israel "should turn the other cheek" instead of retaliating when some Palestinian group lobbed a few rockets onto their homes and schools.

Being against Israeli defending itself doesn't make you an anti-semite. Just stupid!

Who is against Israel? Rae? Certainly not.

[jdobbin]

Aren't you stretching things a mite? I recall the issue to be one of Rae against Israeli foreign policy.

No, Harper said antisemitic. He didn't mention anything about criticism of Israeli policy.

[Keepitsimple]

It is sort of how Harper tried to smear Rae as anti-Semite even though his wife and children are Jewish.

Show me any cite where Harper tried to smear Rae as anti-semitic. If you are referring to the Liberal Leadership race, it was a Liberal delegate who instigated the anti-semitic fiasco:

Bob Rae was the target of anti-Semitic attacks during the Liberal leadership contest, motivated at least in part by the fact that his wife is Jewish.

Sources close to Rae say that his wife, Arlene Perly Rae, was approached during last weekend's convention by a delegate who didn't realize she was the candidate's wife. The delegate told her not to vote for Rae "because his wife is Jewish."

Perly Rae stonily informed the delegate that she was the wife in question. The delegate beat a hasty retreat.

Link: http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...1207?hub=Canada

[BubberMiley]

Show me any cite where Harper tried to smear Rae as anti-semitic.

Am I the only one around here who knows how to work the google machine?

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/st...79-884ef7aa925e

[Wild Bill]

Am I the only one around here who knows how to work the google machine?

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/st...79-884ef7aa925e

Right away it says in that article that Harper did NOT name anybody! Although if Rae fits let him wear the shoe...

I may not be the best googler but at least I can read...

[Shakeyhands]

Right away it says in that article that Harper did NOT name anybody! Although if Rae fits let him wear the shoe...

I may not be the best googler but at least I can read...

Rae suggested Harper's remarks were a crass ploy for Jewish voters.

No doubt. Nothing is beneath these guys.

[jdobbin]

Show me any cite where Harper tried to smear Rae as anti-semitic.

No, I am referring to Harper's comment that any criticism of Israel was antisemitism. Rae had been criticizing Israeli policy on renewed housing construction in the West Bank. Harper went on to smear all criticism of Israel as antisemitism immediately after that to deflect from the fact that Bernier had no comment on the housing project. The comment was directed (in Harper's all too cutesy way) at Rae.

The funny thing is that Bush had criticized this very Israeli policy. Was he antisemitic?

Edited May 26, 2008 by jdobbin

[jdobbin]

Right away it says in that article that Harper did NOT name anybody! Although if Rae fits let him wear the shoe...

I am curious to what incidents and what people Harper is referring to then. The most they can point to is Rae's past experience but Rae has said that he hasn't noticed any antisemitism in Parliament.

It is a very serious charge that Harper has made and he should come clean about who he was referring to and what circumstances that he made his observations.

[Shakeyhands]

Harper was telling an untruth ( I forget what the common word for that is) in an effort to smear the OO. Harper also lied (oh yeah... thats it) in order to garner favour with a particular voting bloc.

[Keepitsimple]

No, I am referring to Harper's comment that any criticism of Israel was antisemitism. Rae had been criticizing Israeli policy on renewed housing construction in the West Bank. Harper went on to smear all criticism of Israel as antisemitism immediately after that to deflect from the fact that Bernier had no comment on the housing project. The comment was directed (in Harper's all too cutesy way) at Rae.

The funny thing is that Bush had criticized this very Israeli policy. Was he antisemitic?

OK then.....show me where Harper actually said that - maybe I missed it. In the article previously posted, Bob Rae twisted things around and made it look that way....but to my knowledge, Harper never said "any criticism of Israel was antisemitism" as you said. As a matter of fact, with regards to Rae, the Liberal Party had already badly stubbed their toe with Bob and his wife. Paul Martin, to his credit, was first to start actively taking a pro-Israel stand but lets not forget that there are still Chretienites and disaffected Martinites who prefer the hands-off, don't pick sides approach - an approach that in some cases, blatantly appeases terrorism.

"I know the member himself has, in his own leadership campaign, experienced the kind of anti-Semitism of which the prime minister spoke and the damage and corrosive impact that it can have," government House leader Peter Van Loan said in response to Rae's question. "He knows full well himself that does continue to exist as a force in our society and is something that we have to fight against at every opportunity."

Link: http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/st...79-884ef7aa925e

Edited May 26, 2008 by Keepitsimple

[jdobbin]

OK then.....show me where Harper actually said that - maybe I missed it. In the article previously posted, Bob Rae twisted things around and made it look that way....but to my knowledge, Harper never said "any criticism of Israel was antisemitism" as you said. As a matter of fact, with regards to Rae, the Liberal Party had already badly stubbed their toe with Bob and his wife. Paul Martin, to his credit, was first to start actively taking a pro-Israel stand but lets not forget that there are still Chretienites and disaffected Martinites who prefer the hands-off, don't pick sides approach - an approach that in some cases, blatantly appeases terrorism.

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/s...e8-8257e6e10b87

Some of the criticism brewing in Canada against the state of Israel, including from some members of Parliament, is similar to the attitude of Nazi Germany in the Second World War, Prime Minister Stephen Harper warned yesterday.

"I guess my fear is what I see happening in some circles is (an) anti-Israeli sentiment, really just as a thinly disguised veil for good old-fashioned anti-Semitism, which I think is completely unacceptable," Mr. Harper said in an interview with CJAD/CFRB radio.

You're right. He said some of it is. What criticism is he referring to? Who is he referring to?

If you are going to raise the spectre of Nazism, you had better be prepared to name names or it is just a smear.

Harper was retaliating for the sharp criticism he got shortly before over the housing project in the west bank that Bernier basically took a pass on. The U.S. is opposed. Many in Israel are opposed. No one in the Tory party is opposed.

[Keepitsimple]

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/s...e8-8257e6e10b87

You're right. He said some of it is. What criticism is he referring to? Who is he referring to?

If you are going to raise the spectre of Nazism, you had better be prepared to name names or it is just a smear.

Harper was retaliating for the sharp criticism he got shortly before over the housing project in the west bank that Bernier basically took a pass on. The U.S. is opposed. Many in Israel are opposed. No one in the Tory party is opposed.

There you go again - he did not say Nazism - the article has paraphrased his quote and the author likens it to Nazism. Just like Rae twisted Harper's words, the article does as well. He said "thinly-disguised veil of anti-semitism". It's a statement that is not out of line and is actually quite balanced and nuanced - to steal a Liberal line. Boris Wresnewskyj and Peggy Nash both returned from Lebanon advocating to their parties that Hezbollah be removed from the Terrorism list. Although he later resigned, you'd have a hard time convincing me that the Libs didn't know his leaning before he left. That's really only the most public example - other than the Liberal delegate who slandered Rae at the leadership convention. Other tactics are thinly-veiled, and fall under that convenient Liberal "balanced and more nuanced approach". In other words, don't say anything good about Israel's protection of its people, its freedom and its democracy for fear of upsetting people who want to literally destroy Israel.

Edited May 26, 2008 by Keepitsimple

[jdobbin]

There you go again - he did not say Nazism - the article has paraphrased his quote and the author likens it to Nazism. Just like Rae twisted Harper's words, the article does as well. He said "thinly-disguised veil of anti-semitism". It's a statement that is not out of line and is actually quite balanced and nuanced - to steal a Liberal line. Boris Wresnewskyj and Peggy Nash both returned from Lebanon advocating to their parties that Hezbollah be removed from the Terrorism list. Although he later resigned, you'd have a hard time convincing me that the Libs didn't know his leaning before he left. That's really only the most public example - other than the Liberal delegate who slandered Rae at the leadership convention. Other tactics are thinly-veiled, and fall under that convenient Liberal "balanced and more nuanced approach". In other words, don't say anything good about Israel's protection of its people, its freedom and its democracy for fear of upsetting people who want to literally destroy Israel.

Harper is going to have to be more specific. One thing is certain is that by not naming names or incidents that Harper was making a general smear. It is about par for the course.

[jbg]

Mocking the Jewish faith and completely ignoring the anti-semitism in your post is offensive to many.

That your buddy dobbin belittled the concerns, and attempted to make a joke of it proves the point that the left's ingrained problems with Jews and Judaism is quite disturbing.

The Jews and the "left" in both of our countries have a longstanding alliance. So much so that the LPOC and the US Democratic Party take us for granted.

[jbg]

I sense an implosion of biblical proportions for that comment.

There is no support for antisemitism. It is just a smear from the Tory talking points page.

And just how many Jewish voters vote CPC or CPC voters are Jewish? I suspect very few, unfortunately, since Harper is a stronger supporter of Israel than any past CDN PM.

[jbg]

Very true.

By the way, a happy Lag BaOmer to all out there today. Hope people enjoy it with festive outings.

Lag BaOmer's imperative is to love and respect one's fellow man. May 23 is the anniversary of when a plagued ended that killed those that did not act respectfully to one another.

Thank you.

[Oleg Bach]

The Jews and the "left" in both of our countries have a longstanding alliance. So much so that the LPOC and the US Democratic Party take us for granted.

The left has always done the dirty work of the extremist right..cos' the far right control all the money...do you really think that commies have money? They could never have created the "movement" without capital..and it took capitalist to finance the left and create more slaves for cheaper wages...the whole thing gives me a headache...I am tired of the Jew thing - the Muslim thing the secularist thing the aggressive nasty atheist thing and the damn anti-christism that is inherent in so called Christians...does no one care about reality and the truth anymore? I guess that if the truth makes you free we are becoming more and more enslaved..to hell with Israel and the damned Arabs....I hope they destroy each other..they have had enough time to make amends and have failed..so to hell with them.

[Michael Bluth]

The Jews and the "left" in both of our countries have a longstanding alliance. So much so that the LPOC and the US Democratic Party take us for granted.

Recently the Jewish community in both countries has shown signs of resenting being taken for granted.

Joe Lieberman on the ticket with McCain could seal the deal with Jews and the Democrats in the U.S.

Little by little Jews in Canada are becoming more appreciative of Harper's strong defence of Israel.

[Who's Doing What?]

Little by little Jews in Canada are becoming more appreciative of Harper's strong defence of Israel.

Cite?

Or are you just making this up?

[Who's Doing What?]

There you go again - he did not say Nazism - the article has paraphrased his quote and the author likens it to Nazism. Just like Rae twisted Harper's words, the article does as well. He said "thinly-disguised veil of anti-semitism". It's a statement that is not out of line and is actually quite balanced and nuanced - to steal a Liberal line. Boris Wresnewskyj and Peggy Nash both returned from Lebanon advocating to their parties that Hezbollah be removed from the Terrorism list. Although he later resigned, you'd have a hard time convincing me that the Libs didn't know his leaning before he left. That's really only the most public example - other than the Liberal delegate who slandered Rae at the leadership convention. Other tactics are thinly-veiled, and fall under that convenient Liberal "balanced and more nuanced approach". In other words, don't say anything good about Israel's protection of its people, its freedom and its democracy for fear of upsetting people who want to literally destroy Israel.

HE might not actualy say "Nazi-ism" but just who do you think he is talking about?

Harper said. "We learned in the Second World War that those who would hate and destroy the Jewish people would ultimately hate and destroy the rest of us as well and the same holds today.

Perhaps he also means the Stalin Communists aswell???

[jdobbin]

Cite?

Or are you just making this up?

How many Jewish members in Conservative caucus?

http://www.jewishtribune.ca/TribuneV2/content/view/596/35/

For the second year in a row Montreal’s Jewish community rallied for Israel in the heart of downtown, with as many as 20,000 people attending the event. Organizers claimed that a Guinness World record was accomplished for the world’s largest hora.

Liberal leader Stéphane Dion was accompanied by Liberal MP Irwin Cotler (celebrating his 68th birthday) and MPs Raymonde Folco, Bob Rae and Joyce Murray, as well as former astronaut Marc Garneau, the Liberal candidate in Westmount-Ville Marie where a by-election may soon be called.

I'm sure many in the Jewish community haven't forgotten how many Jewish MPs the Liberals have had, how many who have served as ministers, how the Liberals appointed the first Jewish Chief Justice and how many were appointed judges based on their merit.

Harper has certainly made inroads on the issue of support for Israel. Dion has been front and center in support of Israel these last years to counter the claim that he is hands off and it is starting to get noticed in the Jewish community papers. He has hardly taken the Jewish community for granted.

The Jewish community has conservative and liberal elements in it. I suspect, if anything, conservative Jews have parked their support with the Liberals because the right wing in Canada had not been as supportive of them in the past. Now, we might see liberal and conservative minded Jews go to either party based on their social views.