'Lead in the head threat'

[Leafless]

Poor poor addled leafless....

Poor unintelligent Dancer capable of producing only lowly personal attacks.

[M.Dancer]

Poor unintelligent Dancer capable of producing only lowly personal attacks.

Are you saying you didn't understand the contradictory quote from yourself I offered? It didn't need any comment because anyone with more than a half a brain would see and understand it immediately.

Need me to explain it further to you?

Edited May 15, 2008 by M.Dancer

[Leafless]

Are you saying you didn't understand the contradictory quote from yourself I offered? It didn't need any comment because anyone with more than a half a brain would see and understand it immediately.

Need me to explain it further to you?

The only thing I would like you to explain is this how you get off, by belittling?

GFY Dancer.

[M.Dancer]

The only thing I would like you to explain is this how you get off, by belittling?

GFY Dancer.

Good For You Too....Leafless..

[guyser]

The only thing I would like you to explain is this how you get off, by belittling?

GFY Dancer.

..oh another one.

Wont get it again , like the last 20 times I suppose.

Hey, the thread title is aptly named. Who started this thread. Uh oh....

[CANADIEN]

Clearly, in and by itself a provincial legislation that declared the province to be officially unlingual English-speaking would not be discriminatory and would violate nobody's rights. It is equally clear that if it's the case then Canada's official bilingual status is not discriminatory and violates nobody's rights.

That being said, one has to be careful that such a law does not contain the seeds of discriminatory rules that violates basic freedom. It happened in Quebec, through the French Language Charter. Those who call for an English Language Charter in other provinces should not be surprise if people suspects they want the same kind of rules.

[CANADIEN]

There are claims that Ottawa's municipal bilingual policy is both undemocratic and discriminatory.

Let's forget for a moment that democracy is about more than just majority rule but the rights of all and fairness for all. The democratically elected city council voted for that policy. If we want to make majority opinion the measure of democracy, then one has to keep in mind that woman's bote, for one thing, came into existence in a similar fashion, and that segragation ended in the US through court orders, but I digress.

As for the claim the policy is discriminatory. suffice to to say the court found it was not the case. "Canadians for Language Fairness", the group that launched the court challenge, could not find arguments in law, the toery of law or in facts to ground their case on.

[Leafless]

Clearly, in and by itself a provincial legislation that declared the province to be officially unlingual English-speaking would not be discriminatory and would violate nobody's rights.

Strange fact though, to date no majority English speaking province has declared itself 'officially English'.

And one would have to ask why.

In Ontario's case premier Mc.Guinty who is a federal Liberal supporter, supports bilingualism and for this reason would never declare Ontario 'officially English speaking'.

But Mc.Guinty is smart enough not to declare Ontario 'officially bilingual, as it would mean an end to his political career.

I believe federal interference is working behind the scenes preventing other provinces from declaring themselves 'officially English' as this would destroy the federal governments undemocratic drive to make the country bilingual.

It is equally clear that if it's the case then Canada's official bilingual status is not discriminatory and violates nobody's rights.

Canada is not officially bilingual, so get over it.

That being said, one has to be careful that such a law does not contain the seeds of discriminatory rules that violates basic freedom. It happened in Quebec, through the French Language Charter. Those who call for an English Language Charter in other provinces should not be surprise if people suspects they want the same kind of rules.

So much for the federal government protecting the Charter rights of Canadians which shows how dysfunctional the federal government is with Quebec in confederation and how discriminatory they are, promoting bilingualism in English Canada and totally ignoring Quebec from establishing official bilingual policies.

[Leafless]

There are claims that Ottawa's municipal bilingual policy is both undemocratic and discriminatory.

Let's forget for a moment that democracy is about more than just majority rule but the rights of all and fairness for all.

This is absolutely untrue, unless you happen to be communist.

The democratically elected city council voted for that policy.

Which they had no business doing.

Forcing the residents of Ottawa to pay the huge cost for francophone bilingual fantasies is totally undemocratic and is representative of state social control.

City of Ottawa residents have to wonder no more why their taxes are so high and why there is no money for city services like proper road maintenance, infrastructure, snow and garbage removal and a host of other basic services the city should be concentrating its efforts on.

[CANADIEN]

I for one find it always interesting when people who do not like the Charter of Rights and Freedom because it protects other people's rights then complain that it is not enforced to their benefit, but I digress...

It is also very interesting that people who do not want official bilingualism outside of Quebec want it in Quebec, topping it with ignorance of the FACT that the federal government provides the SAME level of federal services in English in Quebec as it does with federal services in French elsewhere in the country. But one again I digress...

One has to wonder, though exactly what kind of legislation and rules would they implement to make let's say Ontario officially unilingual and more importantly "protect" English.

[Leafless]

I for one find it always interesting when people who do not like the Charter of Rights and Freedom because it protects other people's rights then complain that it is not enforced to their benefit, but I digress...

You simply do not understand the totally undemocratic nature of implementing rights into the constitution that speaks for all provinces, without the consent of individual Canadian citizens via a national referendum or a similar process that EXCLUDES unilateral federal and provincial legislative authority.

It is also very interesting that people who do not want official bilingualism outside of Quebec want it in Quebec,

What a totally condescending ridiculous statement, when official bilingualism was the brain child of Trudeau a french Quebec prime minister.

Why would Trudeau not initially promote and implement official bilingualism in Quebec where it was initially invented by him?

topping it with ignorance of the FACT that the federal government provides the SAME level of federal services in English in Quebec as it does with federal services in French elsewhere in the country. But one again I digress...

Another condescending senseless statement.

And why should the level of federal services be any different in Quebec. But this is not important as Quebec of course does what it pleases and overides Charter rights and freedoms.

And WITHOUT anywhere near the same level of participation of English speaking public service employees in Quebec.

That one way street is alive and well in Quebec.

One has to wonder, though exactly what kind of legislation and rules would they implement to make let's say Ontario officially uni lingual and more importantly "protect" English.

What do you care when we already know Quebec is the only western government since Nazi Germany to place restrictions on the use of individual language on commercial and private property and written and oral communication between employees and management of private business.

And to think similar discriminatory language laws are applicable in our own federal government.

And you worry about English language legislation in majority English speaking provinces. LOL!

Edited May 16, 2008 by Leafless

[CANADIEN]

Those who believe that the rights of all citizens is not a fundamental component of a true democracy and who reject rights for all citizens are promoters of the same kind of "democracy" (unfettered majority rule at the expense of rights) that gave us anti-Chinese head taxes, gave segragation to the Americans, and gave Quebec it's language laws.

[CANADIEN]

I do not worry about things that are not going to happen, like Ontarians loosing their language rights. I do not worry about threats that do not exist, like the imaginary threat to the English language. I can see, however, why some worry about showing how much they would do to violate the rights of others.

[Oleg Bach]

I do not worry about things that are not going to happen, like Ontarians loosing their language rights. I do not worry about threats that do not exist, like the imaginary threat to the English language. I can see, however, why some worry about showing how much they would do to violate the rights of others.

Remember the overly passionate nuts who can not control themselves seek to control others. I see your point. Ambitious types who seek power for powers sake with out good purpose are everywhere. AND they are so disconnected from what is good management..that they are simply trouble makers so immoral that they are willing to harm individuals all for the sake of the "common good" - democracy is the guarding of the individual....as said in the Gladiator...."Is the life of one good man worth the empire of Rome?" Certainly not! Once the right of the singular human being are trampled on - you eventuall trample on the mass and there is no common good to be had.

[Leafless]

I do not worry about things that are not going to happen, like Ontarians loosing their language rights. I do not worry about threats that do not exist, like the imaginary threat to the English language. I can see, however, why some worry about showing how much they would do to violate the rights of others.

Ontarians don't worry about loosing language rights per say, but do worry about having their jobs taken away from them by french speaking obsolete language fanatics who seriously disrupt English speaking society, incorporating discriminatory federal style bilingual ideologies.

Open up Quebec to the English or stay home in Quebec.

We don't need or want an obsolete french language interfering with our majority English speaking society.

This is why the English language in Ontario MUST be made official, to protect majority English interest, like the French do in Quebec.

[CANADIEN]

There are some in Quebec who claim that official bilingualism, or even limited government services in English, is discriminatory against the French-speaking majority, that it takes jobs away from French-speakers, that it threatens the French language itself. To them, even minimal requests (like the translation of municipal by-laws in Gatineau) is a form of "Anglo fanatism".

These people are wrong. Fundamental fairness towards a minority which is an essential component of Quebec's society would not discriminate against anyone, now would it take anything from anyone. Asking for fairness is not fanatism.

In itself, proclaiming French to be Quebec's sole official language is not unfair. What is blantantly unfair, and discriminatory, is what came with it. The worst part is the clear attempt at making provincial government services in English so rare as being close to unexistant; the message to Quebec's English minority is clear - you do not belong here.

And they are some in Ontario who claim the same things about the need to protect English against an equally non-existing threat against the English language. They are equally wrong and they will not prevail. And they still will not say how low they are ready to go.

[Leafless]

There are some in Quebec who claim that official bilingualism, or even limited government services in English, is discriminatory against the French-speaking majority, that it takes jobs away from French-speakers, that it threatens the French language itself. To them, even minimal requests (like the translation of municipal by-laws in Gatineau) is a form of "Anglo fanatism".

These people are wrong. Fundamental fairness towards a minority which is an essential component of Quebec's society would not discriminate against anyone, now would it take anything from anyone. Asking for fairness is not fanatism.

In itself, proclaiming French to be Quebec's sole official language is not unfair. What is blantantly unfair, and discriminatory, is what came with it. The worst part is the clear attempt at making provincial government services in English so rare as being close to unexistant; the message to Quebec's English minority is clear - you do not belong here.

If Quebec were to separate then then it would be their choice whether or not to officialize their French language.

But if Quebec is in confederation, receiving all the benefits of confederation, to declare french the official language of Quebec is like declaring war on Canada. They are creating a totally french state which is against all aspects of a democratic free country like Canada.

Canada is already a country and needs no competition from a province emulating a dictatorship.

And they are some in Ontario who claim the same things about the need to protect English against an equally non-existing threat against the English language. They are equally wrong and they will not prevail. And they still will not say how low they are ready to go.

French by itself is not a threat in Ontario.

But when combined with the dysfunctional bilingual actions of the federal government, who it seems, does not know its own loyalties to the country, due this dysfunctionality, does present a very real threat to the residents of Ontario who must be provincially protected from discriminatory federal intervention.

If Ontarians are not protected from this federal bias, then this should serve notice to all other majority English provinces in Canada, to force the federal government to implement an immediate national referendum on whether or not to keep Quebec in confederation.

[CANADIEN]

If Quebec is declaring war on Canada by proclaming French as it sole official language, then logic dictates that any province that proclaimed English to be it sole official language would be declaring war on its French-language CANADIAN citizens. What non-sense on both sides of the equation.

Quebec, as a member of Confederation, must assume not only its benefits, but also its responsibilities, including due respect for minority rights. So must each province.

Canada is indeed a country, in all its diversity. And one of the best in the world, in part due to its diversity. Despite the claims of those it is not a real county, and the claims of those it has to deny individual and minority rights to do so. And those who claim that the test of loyalty to Canada is the willingless to deny other people's rights and advocating breaking up the county are wrong on both counts.

I am a Canadian, my rights are here, I am here and neither are going anywhere out of this great country of ours (except on vacations )

[CANADIEN]

If a totally French state is undemocratic, then wouldn't a totally English state be undemocratic either?

In and by itself, the decision by the Quebec government to make French the province's sole official language is not what constitute an affront to democracy. It is the willingless to trample minority and human rights to do so. Those who are willing to do the same to minority rights in Ontario are advocating something that is blatantly undemocratic.

[CANADIEN]

French is not a threat to Ontario... unless it is spoken in government offices and at government counters.

[Leafless]

If Quebec is declaring war on Canada by proclaming French as it sole official language, then logic dictates that any province that proclaimed English to be it sole official language would be declaring war on its French-language CANADIAN citizens. What non-sense on both sides of the equation.

The discriminating factor is ONLY Quebec declared itself officially french and to date not other provinces.

I fail to see provinces retaliating to protect their English language in lieu of what Quebec did is an act of war on french Canadians.

Anyways, TO DATE THIS DID NOT HAPPEN, SO WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM??

You are free to argue this is it ever becomes FACT.

Quebec, as a member of Confederation, must assume not only its benefits, but also its responsibilities, including due respect for minority rights.

Again, Quebec always did have the same rights as any other Canadians and if they refuse to assimilate, what can be said.

Quebec rights include the rights of its language and religion WITHIN the province of Quebec.

It is Quebec's responsibility to capitalize on these rights within their own province.

So must each province.

Where is the law that says this????

Canada is indeed a country, in all its diversity. And one of the best in the world, in part due to its diversity. Despite the claims of those it is not a real county, and the claims of those it has to deny individual and minority rights to do so. And those who claim that the test of loyalty to Canada is the willingless to deny other people's rights and advocating breaking up the county are wrong on both counts.

It is not other provinces who are advocating the break up of Canada, it is Quebec, who are unable to manage their own freely chosen identity.

I am a Canadian, my rights are here, I am here and neither are going anywhere out of this great country of ours (except on vacations )

I don't blame you, the ball currently is in your park with the help of Canada's dysfunctional English/French federal government.

[CANADIEN]

The Constitution, human rights convention, and simple common sense show clearly that to be truly democratic - that is, representative of all citizens - the State must respect individual rights, and minority rights. That applies to Quebec, and to all other provinces.

Interesting, btw, that notion of "Quebec rights" - that is, of rights Canadians enjoy in certain parts of the country but not in others. what a better way to make it clear that French-speaking Canadians are second-class citizens.

Which is non-sense, and discriminatory. Not that I believe that there is any Ontario or federal law at the moment which violates my language rights. There is none, and if there was I would have said so. Saying I don't want any to be enacted is not the same as saying they exist.

[CANADIEN]

Those who advocate kicking Quebec out of Canada are advocating breaking-up Canada. No if, no but, no why.

[Leafless]

Those who advocate kicking Quebec out of Canada are advocating breaking-up Canada. No if, no but, no why.

I agree.

And for good reason to.

[Leafless]

The Constitution, human rights convention, and simple common sense show clearly that to be truly democratic - that is, representative of all citizens - the State must respect individual rights, and minority rights. That applies to Quebec, and to all other provinces.

Minority demands cannot trump majority concerns and you know it.

If any minority feels this way, start and build your own country, out of Canada that is.

Interesting, btw, that notion of "Quebec rights" - that is, of rights Canadians enjoy in certain parts of the country but not in others. what a better way to make it clear that French-speaking Canadians are second-class citizens.

Again unreasonable cultural demands cannot be tolerated or you have minorities dictating majority cultural concerns, such as what we have in the federal public service.

For instance, can you imagine if shove came to push between Quebec and the ROC the harm that could be done by francophones loyal to Quebec, to the inner workings (i.e. destruction of federal computers) of the federal government that could cause havoc and bring Canada to a standstill?

Which is non-sense, and discriminatory. Not that I believe that there is any Ontario or federal law at the moment which violates my language rights. There is none, and if there was I would have said so. Saying I don't want any to be enacted is not the same as saying they exist.

Arguing in the defense of Quebec policies as if Ontario language laws are enacted is nonsensical and destructive.