Is Six Nations plan a positive step forward?

[AngusThermopyle]

That's funny that you ~say~ that violence is a last resort because it seems to be the first thing you resort to as an answer to every disagreement.....

Sure, yeah. Go collect a few quotes and show me where I say violence should be used as a solution. Or are you just going to leave out the parts where I state it should be a last resort. More unfounded assertions from you.

Gettin frustrated maybe?

One needs only to look at the vote numbers to realize they don't care.

Oh! I see, how could I have ever questioned the accuracy of your opinion after all it's based upon such a sound and logical methodology.

Edited January 29, 2008 by AngusThermopyle

[charter.rights]

Sure, yeah. Go collect a few quotes and show me where I say violence should be used as a solution. Or are you just going to leave out the parts where I state it should be a last resort. More unfounded assertions from you.

Gettin frustrated maybe?

Oh! I see, how could I have ever questioned the accuracy of your opinion after all it's based upon such a sound and logical methodology.

Sure it is an opinion. That is where discussion comes from. Wot? You think we should listen to the chain of command?

[AngusThermopyle]

Sure it is an opinion. That is where discussion comes from. Wot? You think we should listen to the chain of command?

No actually. I merely think that when you try to pass off your opinion as fact you should at least make an attempt to back it up. Although I imagine in your world of altering reality you do see your opinion as fact.

Hey! How bout an answer to my question as to whether you surveyed all the smoke shop owners as to their long term buisness plans? Or was that just more of your wishfull thinking being passed off as fact again?

Edited January 29, 2008 by AngusThermopyle

[kengs333]

When they are acting to correct 200 years of Canadian government injustice, theft and fraud.

Most of the "problems" that you people are complaining about are the result of the actions of Joseph Brant, not the Canadian government. If the Canadian government didn't step in and stop land speculation and force the Six Nations to start conducting land transactions legally, there would be no reserve at all.

[joan]

Most of the "problems" that you people are complaining about are the result of the actions of Joseph Brant, not the Canadian government. If the Canadian government didn't step in and stop land speculation and force the Six Nations to start conducting land transactions legally, there would be no reserve at all.

You don't 't know that. In fact, you openly admit that your don't know or care about the history at all.

[charter.rights]

You don't 't know that. In fact, you openly admit that your don't know or care about the history at all.

Kengs333 is under the creek bank on that one.

Brant was adamant about being able to lease land to non-natives for Six Nations prosperity. The idea was that under long term leases settlers would clear the land and create roads etc. After the leases were up Six Nations would regain occupation and carry on with much of the work done for them. In today's terms that is wise investment.

Most of those leases were illegally converted to title. That is how non-natives came to occupy much of the Haldimand. The process was (and still is) totally illegal. Since the leases were never fully paid, the land - regardless of what title has been placed - reverts back to Six Nations ownership. In many other leases, the government tried to force Six Nations to sell. When they couldn't get them to agree they basically stole the land forging signatures on official agreements. The one that gave rise to the Caledonia occupation - the Plank Road claim - was exactly this method. Very early in negotiations, the government made a declaration that they had proof that the transfer was legitimate by producing a 1844 agreement with the signatures of 47 Chiefs. When Six Nations representatives pointed out that there weren't 47 Chiefs available to sign (more than half were in New York at a council for most of 1844) and secondly the names that were contained on the document were in fact not names of traditional condoled Chiefs, the government pulled the document and claimed they had other evidence. For nearly six month they have not produced "the other" evidence and instead have refused, without any legitimate basis to negotiate that claim. Six Nations has minutes of their Council meetings, and correspondence directing the Chiefs to refuse an agreement to sell. Their only interest was to lease the land.

Samuel Jarvis was the Indian Agent at the time and has historically been accused of fraud, forgery and embezzlement of Six Nations trusts to his own benefit. Since he was an employee of government, the government is fully on the hook for all his dealings. Legally lands obtained through fraud are null transactions. The only question on much of the lands around the Haldimand is what to do with those that currently occupy the land illegally.

In the last 5 years, a similar occurrence happened at Tyendinaga and Shannonvile. The government's solution was to use its reality branch to buy up the properties and return the land to the Mohawks of the Bay of Quinte. As of today, nearly 60% of Shannonvile has been vacate and handed back to the Mohawks in settlement.

That goes to what I said earlier about the outcome not having any effect. There were plenty of Shannonville residents pretty upset at having to leave their homes. Yet the rest of Ontario, never hear a word about it.