Russell by-law spat sparks bilingual study

[Leafless]

OK, now where did I put my Leafless-ish/English dictionary? Translation someone please.

Bouchard was right.

Canada is not a REAL country.

[CANADIEN]

To bad you cannot comprehend.

Indeed, I, and most people, cannot comprehend how you can be so clueless as to post that type of non-sense time and time and time and time again.

Official languages mean nothing to me

Except when you try to impose English as sole official language.

[CANADIEN]

I am glad you now realize how dysfunctional politics is in Canada.

Gee, I forget that you don't get it when I mock you.

[CANADIEN]

Bouchard was right.

Canada is not a REAL country.

He was wrong, and so are you. But it is nice to see how you express how proud you are at being Canadian.

[Leafless]

Indeed, I, and most people, cannot comprehend how you can be so clueless as to post that type of non-sense time and time and time and time again.

You mean like the nonsense the rest of your post consist of.

Except when you try to impose English as sole official language.

Ha-ha-ha-ha.... when I try to impose English as a sole official language.

I am not trying to impose anything.

What I am doing is voicing my opinion.

Big difference.

Provinces have that right especially in the light of the fact that minority French Quebec has done so with French imposed language laws including French as an official language. There are also French imposed language laws in majority English speaking provinces.

I still can't figure out why you are so against the English language since it the language of choice by the great majority of Canadians.

I think you are confused by the concept of federal offical languages that they do not legally encompass individual provinces.

We already detirmined that federal official bilingualism throughout Canada has FAILED.

Maybe you cannot grasp that fact and are detirmined to allow French radicals to employ other corrupt methods of forcing English Canada to include French on an official basis throughout Canada.

[Leafless]

He was wrong, and so are you. But it is nice to see how you express how proud you are at being Canadian.

I am a proud Canadian but not proud of what the radicals have done to this country while voiceless Canadian citizens are left at the wayside.

[CANADIEN]

Ha-ha-ha-ha.... when I try to impose English as a sole official language.

I am not trying to impose anything.

What I am doing is voicing my opinion.

Which is that English should be imposed as the sole language of commerce. Thanks for confirming that I'm right about you.

I still can't figure out why you are so against the English language

No surprise there, since I have nothing against the English language.

I think you are confused by the concept of federal offical languages that they do not legally encompass individual provinces.

While I am waiting for the Englsih translation... nothing in the Constitution mandates the delivery of provincial services in French in Ontario. Equality important, nothing fobitds it. And even more important, the ELECTED legislature of Ontaro decided to do it. You don't like parliamentary democracy, your problem.

We already detirmined that federal official bilingualism throughout Canada has FAILED.

By "we", you mean yo and your voice... Let's see... federal government services are available in French amd Englsih throught the country, as it should be. Which means that french-speaking Canadians are no longer second class citizens. I call that success.

Maybe you cannot grasp that non-esistantfact

and are detirmined to allow French radicals to employ other corrupt methods

I don't care what anyone from France is supposedly trying to do.

[Leafless]

Which is that English should be imposed as the sole language of commerce. Thanks for confirming that I'm right about you.

Your in favour of extending existing French language policies inducing forced bilingualism.

Why should I not object to preventing forced French language policies as Francophones have rejected the English language spoken by the large majority of Canadians.

Why should English speakers of Canada have their status reduced to that of second class citizens by the corrupt application of French language policies spoken by 17% of the population of Canada?

No surprise there, since I have nothing against the English language.

Then why do you keep responding that I say "English should be imposed as the sole language of commerce" when the English language is a free flowing language that mostly everyone FREELY chooses?

While I am waiting for the Englsih translation... nothing in the Constitution mandates the delivery of provincial services in French in Ontario. Equality important, nothing fobitds it.

There is no English translation and I am not talking about the miniscule use of French to deliver cadillac French services in Ontario.

Surely you know that currently there is NO English official language policy in Ontario that serves specifically FORCES the language of commerce throughout the province of Ontario.

And surely you know there are corrupt 'French language policies' in Ontario that overide the linguistic freedoms of English speaking Ontarians.

By "we", you mean yo and your voice... Let's see... federal government services are available in French amd Englsih throught the country, as it should be.

What the federal government is doing (within its jurisdiction) for 17% Francophones in Canada is terribly discriminatory and simply magnifies how dysfunctional the federal political system is.

Which means that french-speaking Canadians are no longer second class citizens. I call that success.

If French speaking numbers cannot warrant free flowing bilingualism, then you cannot blame the federal government or English speaking Canadians, but only blame yourself.

What the government did exceeds any kind of definiton under human rights legislation and amounts to nothing more than corrupt dysfunctional politics.

I don't care what anyone from France is supposedly trying to do.

I will be more specific, Francophone radicals.

[CANADIEN]

Your in favour of extending existing French language policies inducing forced bilingualism.

Why should I not object to preventing forced French language policies as Francophones have rejected the English language spoken by the large majority of Canadians.

You object to preventing French-language legislation? No wonder people think you cannot write in English :lol:

Why should English speakers of Canada have their status reduced to that of second class citizens by the corrupt application of French language policies spoken by 17% of the population of Canada?

There would be no reason for English-speaking Canadians to be reduced to second-class status, and if you had a clue you would recognize that equality of rights is NOT second class status for anyone.

Then why do you keep responding that I say "English should be imposed as the sole language of commerce" when the English language is a free flowing language that mostly everyone FREELY chooses?

Why? Because you keep saying that English should be made the sole official language of Ontario, complete with it being the sole language of commerce. I didn't know that pointing to what you say is a proof of hatred towards English

There is no English translation

Clue to the clueless. What you write is not English.

Surely you know that currently there is NO English official language policy in Ontario that serves specifically FORCES the language of commerce throughout the province of Ontario.

Of course I know it. You keep arguing that there should be one.

And surely you know there are corrupt 'French language policies' in Ontario that overide the linguistic freedoms of English speaking Ontarians.

I know those policies are not corrupt, and that they override nobody's freedoms.

What the federal government is doing (within its jurisdiction) for 17% Francophones in Canada

it's closer to 23%

(...) is terribly discriminatory

According to your voices. In the real world, it is NOT discriminatory.

If French speaking numbers cannot warrant free flowing bilingualism, then you cannot blame the federal government or English speaking Canadians, but only blame yourself.

The numbers warrant government services in English and French, which is what it is about.

BTW, are you saying that French-speakings Canadians should blame themselves for assimilation?

You have proved to be very entertaining, but for the time being I decided to go away and do things more useful than reading your drivel. So bye bye loser, I may think of you next time I access government services EN FRANCAIS.

[Leafless]

There would be no reason for English-speaking Canadians to be reduced to second-class status, and if you had a clue you would recognize that equality of rights is NOT second class status for anyone.

Speaking of poor English.....

English speaking Canadians are confronted by a dormant French language, propagated by forces of government and not simply by the popularityof the French language.

This of course has nothing to do with equality but has a lot to do with dysfunctional totalitarian governments fighting among themselves at the expense of helpless majority English speaking Canadian citizens.

Why? Because you keep saying that English should be made the sole official language of Ontario, complete with it being the sole language of commerce. I didn't know that pointing to what you say is a proof of hatred towards English

Do you want to say that in the English language.

it's closer to 23%

No citation again?

Well I will give you one.

Although it's required for six years of formal education of the french language through elementary and secondary school in Canada, most Canadians are reluctant to even bother with the language. Most people can understand the basics of the language because of its simplicity. Approximately 30% speak french, 13.3% speak French only, and 17.7% speak both English and French

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_people_...da_speak_French

According to your voices. In the real world, it is NOT discriminatory.

No citation again.

Show me evidence to support your statement?

The numbers warrant government services in English and French, which is what it is about.

Your definition of 'services' is discriminatory and corrupt.

BTW, are you saying that French-speakings Canadians should blame themselves for assimilation?

If you put it that way, then I am saying French Canadians can only blame themselves by not assimilating like most other Canadians. This has a negative impact relating to the advancement of Canada as a modern country.

The French language is not as popular as you believe it to be.

[g_bambino]

I am saying French Canadians can only blame themselves by not assimilating like most other Canadians.

Right. So, then, for you it is the tyranny of the majority that rules. Doesn't that then depend on context? Let's take, for instance, the town of Zenon Park, Saskatchewan. The 2006 census shows that Zenon Park's population was majority French speaking: 110 in a town of 190. By your argument, then, the town of Zenon Park should have a by-law that enforces and protects the dominant French language from corrupt and discriminatory anglophones who demand town services in English. Right? What about the township that was the subject at the start of this thread: Russell? I raised this earlier, but you chose to ignore it: the cenus shows that Russell's population is split evenly between francophones and anglophones; 6,810 English speakers to 6,160 French speakers, and 180 bilingual. Where's your dominant language of business there, which needs protection from the corrupt... 580 who speak "other"?

Edited October 9, 2008 by g_bambino

[Leafless]

Right. So, then, for you it is the tyranny of the majority that rules.

In a democracy tyranny of the majority rules.

It is the basis of a democracy.

What about the township that was the subject at the start of this thread: Russell? I raised this earlier, but you chose to ignore it: the cenus shows that Russell's population is split evenly between francophones and anglophones; 6,810 English speakers to 6,160 French speakers, and 180 bilingual. Where's your dominant language of business there, which needs protection from the corrupt... 580 who speak "other"?

The township of Russell is a town and is part of the larger body which is the province of Ontario.

Currently,Ontario is a province in Canada that has no language policy relating to Ontario as a whole.

If language laws are permitted in towns and cities in the province of Ontario then you have the abnormal, undemocratic situation where the tyranny of the minority rules. This is a complete reversal relating to the basis of a democracy.

Edited October 9, 2008 by Leafless

[g_bambino]

In a democracy tyranny of the majority rules.

It is the basis of a democracy.

Okay. Then...

The township of Russell is a town and is part of the larger body which is the province of Ontario.

Currently,Ontario is a province in Canada that has no language policy relating to Ontario as a whole.

If language laws are permitted in towns and cities in the province of Ontario then you have the abnormal, undemocratic situation where the tyranny of the minority rules. This is a complete reversal relating to the basis of a democracy.

...you contradict yourself. The majority of the population in Zenon Park is Francophone. Within that jurisdiction, then, by your own argument, French should be the official language of the municipality.

If you're going to argue the majority of the larger population has the right to override the majority of the township, then you have to accept that you should be speaking Mandarin, the most widely-spoken language in the world. Oops!

[Leafless]

Okay. Then...

...you contradict yourself. The majority of the population in Zenon Park is Francophone. Within that jurisdiction, then, by your own argument, French should be the official language of the municipality.

If francophones want to play hard ball with imposed language legislation then English speaking residents of Ontario should fight back by demanding that the English language be made the official language of Ontario.

If you're going to argue the majority of the larger population has the right to override the majority of the township, then you have to accept that you should be speaking Mandarin, the most widely-spoken language in the world. Oops!

Maybe someday Mandarin will be the language of choice for everyone.

But until the that time comes, Mandarin must acquire the power and influence to freely propagate that language throughout the world.

[g_bambino]

If francophones want to play hard ball with imposed language legislation then English speaking residents of Ontario should fight back by demanding that the English language be made the official language of Ontario.

Who's talking about hard-ball? Francophones in these communities would merely be adhering to your own theories.

Maybe someday Mandarin will be the language of choice for everyone.

But until the that time comes, Mandarin must acquire the power and influence to freely propagate that language throughout the world.

It doesn't appear to be about choice for you. It's about ensuring that everyone speaks what the majority does, and Mandarin is already the most spoken language on Earth.

[Leafless]

Who's talking about hard-ball? Francophones in these communities would merely be adhering to your own theories.

My expectations do not include minorities pushing English speaking majorities around via linguistic laws.

It doesn't appear to be about choice for you.

I don't care what language one speaks.

This of course does not include linguistic minorities utilizing linguistic language policies thus forcing users of the free flowing majority English language to bow to minority language policies. This is tyranny of the minority and does not reflect very well to the concept of a free and democratic country.

The majority has spoken and the English language rules the land as the official language of commerce in Canada.

It's about ensuring that everyone speaks what the majority does, and Mandarin is already the most spoken language on Earth.

Users of Mandarin like users of the French language in Canada do not have the political clout or military power to freely propagate and influence the people of the world in other ways to use their language.

Edited October 14, 2008 by Leafless

[g_bambino]

My expectations do not include minorities pushing English speaking majorities around via linguistic laws.

You did not address the point. Francophones in jurisdictions where French is the dominant language would merely be adhering to your own theories if they implemented laws that forced the English speaking minority to publicly communicate in French.

I don't care what language one speaks.

This thread says otherwise.

This of course does not include linguistic minorities utilizing linguistic language policies thus forcing users of the free flowing majority English language to bow to minority language policies. This is tyranny of the minority and does not reflect very well to the concept of a free and democratic country.

See my point above.

The majority has spoken and the English language rules the land as the official language of commerce in Canada.

Er.. where is the law that says English is the sole official language of commerce in Canada?

Users of Mandarin like users of the French language in Canada do not have the political clout or military power to freely propagate and influence the people of the world in other ways to use their language.

According to you, the people of the world should speak Mandarin because Mandarin is now the language spoken by the majority of the planet's population.

[Leafless]

You did not address the point. Francophones in jurisdictions where French is the dominant language would merely be adhering to your own theories if they implemented laws that forced the English speaking minority to publicly communicate in French.

What you are saying is ridiculous.

Francophones are not the majority ANYWHERE in Canada, not even Quebec.

It must be remembered Quebec is a province and is not a country. Therefore when establishing linguistic majorities and minorities all of Canada must be included in calculations.

This thread says otherwise.

I have maintained my position throughout this thread.

The confusion is related to your inane suggestions that tiny townships have the right to supersede the language of the land which is the English language.

Er.. where is the law that says English is the sole official language of commerce in Canada?

It is not the sole language of commerce but is by far the largest and most common.

Province/Territory Total population English % French % Other languages %

Ontario 12,028,895 9,789,937 81.4% 304,727 2.5% 1,934,235 16.1%

Quebec 7,435,905 787,885 10.6% 6,085,152 81.8% 562,860 7.6%

British Columbia 4,074,800 3,380,253 83.0% 19,361 0.5% 676,911 16.6%

Alberta 3,256,355 2,915,867 89.5% 21,347 0.7% 319,142 9.8%

Manitoba 1,133,515 997,598 88.0% 20,515 1.8% 115,398 10.1%

Saskatchewan 953,850 900,231 94.4% 4,318 0.5% 49,301 5.2%

Nova Scotia 903,090 868,408 96.2% 17,871 1.9% 16,811 1.9%

New Brunswick 719,650 496,850 69.0% 213,878 29.7% 8,913 1.2%

Newfoundland and Labrador 500,605 494,695 98.8% 740 0.1% 5,170 1.0%

Prince Edward Island 134,205 130,270 97.1% 2,755 2.1% 1,175 0.9%

Northwest Territories 41,055 36,918 89.9% 458 1.1% 3,678 9.0%

Yukon 30,195 28,711 94.8% 578 1.9% 985 3.3%

Nunavut 29,325 13,120 44.7% 228 0.8

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Canada

According to you, the people of the world should speak Mandarin because Mandarin is now the language spoken by the majority of the planet's population.

We are talking about freedoms being taken away from users of the majority English language by tiny French enclaves utilizing force via language policies and sign policies.

Obviously you have little or no respect for languages that are freely propagated and favour draconian linguistic legislation to punish users of the free flowing majority English language by taking away their right to speak any language one chooses to speak.

If Francophones cannot naturally entice Canadians to speak French, then I would describe their linguistic situation as simply unfortunate.

o

Edited October 14, 2008 by Leafless

[g_bambino]

Francophones are not the majority ANYWHERE in Canada, not even Quebec. It must be remembered Quebec is a province and is not a country. Therefore when establishing linguistic majorities and minorities all of Canada must be included in calculations.

Er, I would think that Francophones are the majority in Quebec. Further, it must be remembered that Quebec is a legal jurisdiction, as are municipalities; they each have the power to create their own laws. When making laws for their areas, the linguistic majority must be included in calculations.

The confusion is related to your inane suggestions that tiny townships have the right to supersede the language of the land which is the English language.

It seems the inanity lies in your fear of a township legislating for a state.

We are talking about freedoms being taken away from users of the majority English language by tiny French enclaves utilizing force via language policies and sign policies.

Yet, you haven't provided a single example of such a thing taking place, save, perhaps, for official bilingualism within the Canadian federal sphere.

Obviously you have little or no respect for languages that are freely propagated and favour draconian linguistic legislation to punish users of the free flowing majority English language by taking away their right to speak any language one chooses to speak.

Obviously you have little or no respect for languages that are freely propagated and favour draconian linguistic legislation to punish users of the free flowing majority French language by taking away their right to speak any language one chooses to speak.

If Francophones cannot naturally entice Canadians to speak French, then I would describe their linguistic situation as simply unfortunate.

That comment presupposes that there are no Francophone Canadians. Any proof that supports such a suggestion?

Edited October 14, 2008 by g_bambino

[Leafless]

Er, I would think that Francophones are the majority in Quebec.

So what.

Francophones are a minority in Canada.

Further, it must be remembered that Quebec is a legal jurisdiction, as are municipalities; they each have the power to create their own laws.

They have the power to create laws but not laws that oppress and discriminate.

When making laws for their areas, the linguistic majority must be included in calculations.

More commie talk.

Canada is a free and democratic country.

But if you want to ruin our fine country with minority language laws then I say make Ontario officially English. It is apparent the time has come.

It seems the inanity lies in your fear of a township legislating for a state.

That is the fear of oppression and discrimation by a 4% French minority.

Yet, you haven't provided a single example of such a thing taking place, save, perhaps, for official bilingualism within the Canadian federal sphere.

Okay how about the reality that a majority English speaking person in Ottawa Ontario is discriminated upon by being refused employment in the private sector because he or she cannot speak French.

Obviously you have little or no respect for languages that are freely propagated and favour draconian linguistic legislation to punish users of the free flowing majority French language by taking away their right to speak any language one chooses to speak.

French is NOT a free flowing language.

Up to now French in the federal pubic service and associated French services has cost the tax payer since bilingualism in the federal government was initially implemented...1 trillion dollars.

Tat comment presupposes that there are no Francophone Canadians. Any proof that supports such a suggestion?

There are Francophones in Canada.

But like I said:

If Francophones cannot naturally entice Canadians to speak French, then I would describe their linguistic situation as simply unfortunate

I don't know how you come to the conclusion that quoted statement suggest that there are no Francophones in Canada.

[g_bambino]

Francophones are a minority in Canada.

So what? As you say:

Canada is a free and democratic country.

Within that free and democratic country, Quebec is semi-sovereign and has the right to make laws for its own jurisdiction. Francophones are the majority in Quebec. Hence, according to your logic, it is acceptable for the French majority to ensure that their language is protected from usurpation by the minority Anglophone population.

That is the fear of oppression and discrimation by a 4% French minority.

Like I said, it seems the inanity lies in your fear of a township legislating for a state.

Okay how about the reality that a majority English speaking person in Ottawa Ontario is discriminated upon by being refused employment in the private sector because he or she cannot speak French.

What are the demographics of the Ottawa-Hull region?

French is NOT a free flowing language.

Oh? Where is expression in French banned?

I don't know how you come to the conclusion that quoted statement suggest that there are no Francophones in Canada.

Perhaps your confusion lies in the fact that you are imagining things I didn't say. My words were, with emphasis: That comment presupposes that there are no Francophone Canadians.

More commie talk.

Well, at least you recognise your own words for what they are!

[Leafless]

Within that free and democratic country, Quebec is semi-sovereign and has the right to make laws for its own jurisdiction.

They are entitled to make laws that do not discriminate and oppress.

And I wish they would get off of their culture pot and empty their bowels in the proper place, namely the toilet.

Francophones are the majority in Quebec.

In reality this means nothing as they are simply a part of confederation BY DEFAULT that is.

According to your logic, it is acceptable for the French majority to ensure that their language is protected from usurpation by the minority Anglophone population.

There is no French majority period.

What you have is a cluster of Francophone nationalist within the province of Quebec that support separatist ideologies.

I would say 40 out of 75 seats proves my point.

Like I said, it seems the inanity lies in your fear of a township legislating for a state.

Yes. I find it very disturbing that with the right mix of corrupt politicians oppressive and discriminating policies can be implemented by a mere minority with no safegurds to prevent this type of undemocratic manoeuvre.

hat are the demographics of the Ottawa-Hull region?

There ARE NO demographics for the Ottawa-Hull region outside of federal democraphics and the fact that Ottawa is in the province of Ontario and Hull is part of Gatineau Quebec.

Oh? Where is expression in French banned?

What I am saying is that the French language never progressed like the English language in Canada to establish a commanding identity.

Perhaps your confusion lies in the fact that you are imagining things I didn't say. My words were, with emphasis: That comment presupposes that there are no Francophone Canadians.

Well, at least you recognise your own words for what they are!

This is what you wrote:

That comment presupposes that there are no Francophone Canadians. Any proof that supports such a suggestion?

And I correctly implied.

Edited October 15, 2008 by Leafless

[g_bambino]

They are entitled to make laws that do not discriminate and oppress.

Okay then, this...

Francophones are the majority in Quebec.

...doesn't mean nothing. It completely contradicts your claim of:

There is no French majority period.

...if by "French" you mean "Francophone'". Therefore, if you say the Quebec government cannot make laws that discriminate and oppress, then you contradict your own earlier statement on how laws should be enacted to protect the dominant language from usurpation by any minority populations.

Yes. I find it very disturbing that with the right mix of corrupt politicians oppressive and discriminating policies can be implemented by a mere minority with no safegurds to prevent this type of undemocratic manoeuvre.

So, you believe that it is possible for the state to be bound by laws passed by a municipal government?

There ARE NO demographics for the Ottawa-Hull region outside of federal democraphics and the fact that Ottawa is in the province of Ontario and Hull is part of Gatineau Quebec.

Do you know what demographics are?

What I am saying is that the French language never progressed like the English language in Canada to establish a commanding identity.

No, what you were saying was:

French is NOT a free flowing language.

The only way it could not flow freely is if there was some kind of block against it. Again: Where is expression in French banned?

This is what you wrote:

That comment presupposes that there are no Francophone Canadians. Any proof that supports such a suggestion?

Yes, thank you for again re-re-posting what I re-posted in my last post. Doing so, however, doesn't answer my question: Do you have any proof to support the suggestion that there are no Francophone Canadians?

Edited October 15, 2008 by g_bambino

[Leafless]

Therefore, if you say the Quebec government cannot make laws that discriminate and oppress, then you contradict your own earlier statement on how laws should be enacted to protect the dominant language from usurpation by any minority populations.

That is the MAJORITY dominant language and NOT minority language or languages.

Canadian politics is dysfunctional because it allows two official languages resulting in major conflicts.

Tyranny of minority has stiffled Canadian politics.

One need to look no further how Quebec stiffled yet another federal election.

So, you believe that it is possible for the state to be bound by laws passed by a municipal government?

Certaintly.

That is laws that REPRESENT the MAJORITY.

Do you know what demographics are?

I know what demographics are.

But it seems you don't. This is what you wrote:

What are the demographics of the Ottawa-Hull region?

You are speaking in a federal sense and not one that represents communities in either Ontario OR Quebec.

Make up your mind and tell us what demograhics you want or are talking about relating to cities or towns in individual provinces?

Again Ontario has nothing to do with Quebec and Quebec has nothing to do with Ontario relating to normal demographics.

The only way it could not flow freely is if there was some kind of block against it. Again: Where is expression in French banned?

You have your wires twisted.

What I was saying about French flowing freely, is that the French language in Canada NEVER assumed a dominant role thus enticing Canada's population to speak French.

The English language freely accomplished enticing Canadians to speak the English language.

Yes, thank you for again re-re-posting what I re-posted in my last post. Doing so, however, doesn't answer my question: Do you have any proof to support the suggestion that there are no Francophone Canadians?

I never suggested that.

[Leafless]

This is an update regarding the Russell by-law court challenge.

The court challenge has been lost and it appears bilingual Superior Court Justice Monique Metivier who could be a biased judge, prefers to agree with Nazi type language/sign laws.

An appeal as been launched by Howard Galganov and Jean Serge Brisson.

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/life/Bilingual+sign+bylaw+faces+challenge/3559417/story.html