Yet More Proof: Traditional Family is Good

[kengs333]

My son was in daycare from 9 months on. He is now a teenager, a B+ student, a cadet, has a job, saves his money, does the dishes, knows how to do his own laundry and clean the toilet, is respectful of others, asks old people if they need help, I could go on... and on....

You really seem to put much stock in the fact that your son can wash dishes and clean toilets. Personally, I prefer to place greater importance on skills like being able to read and write, in particular forgein languages, developing a taste for literature and academics, and striving to be a good, moral, Christian person. But I guess it's not really pc to have high expectations of one's chidlren anymore. We're just supposed to toss them into secular society and hope that they manage to learn how to survive on their own, and if they manage to get passable grades and learn some sort of middling occupation, we can then rejoice at the fact that our children didn't become loser and failures.

Did I mention that we met his stepdad only 5 years ago? Do you realize that means that I, a single mother, raised a male child on her own and he TURNED OUT OK. Friggin' amazing. We must be the one single anomoly in all of North America. Damn I'm proud!

Really, we only have your assessment to go on, so none of us really know what you son is really like. But if I may be frank for a moment, in the past you have discussed you lifestyle and social attitudes, and to me it really makes me wonder how he will turn out. As he is only a teen, things can change considerably when he "grows up". I saw it happen to some of my friends in high school when they removed themselves from the control of their parents, and they went sliding down hill quite quickly. So things could change rapidly.

Why were you a single mother in the first place? I mean, why were you really a single mother? And what will your reaction be if one day he starts bedding all these women and just happens to slip one past the goalie with someone who it turns out he only was interested in because she was easy? What comes around, goes around, I guess.

Thte statistics speak for themselves, though. You can provide empirical ecidence all you want, but the studies that are conducted scientifically and are accurate consistantly show that the traditional nuclear family is the most stable and produces the most well-adjusted children.

[jawapunk]

Man, you are seriously obnoxious and rude Kengs. Why are you such an a$$? Are you implying that Drea is a whore? That she slept with alot of guys and let one slip past the goalie? What is your problem?

[Moxie]

He is. How many women divorce men because his career gets in the way of spending time of with the family? Men simply have it worse than women. On the one hand, he has to go out there and get a great job, career so he can snag himself a woman, yet in order to maintain that career he has to go along with whatever the job requirements are, such as long hours, travel, long commutes, etc. If he wants time out for the family, then he puts his career and income at risk; but if he doesn't spend time with the family, then he puts his income and family at risk. People sympathize much more with women who want to spend more time with the children and lose some income, or have to change careers; and nobody questions the sanity of a woman's decision to "choose" to remain at home with the kids. As with most women, you only see things from your (the woman's) perspective, and take for granted the sacrifices that men make to keep their women placated. If only we could return to a time where women are raised to have a more understanding and respectful attitude towards their men--there would be a definite improvement in our society.

Kengs, we don't wear white when we get married to blend in with the "Appliances" anymore.

Men have it worst than women, hello we are required to give birth to them. Work for living, keep a clean house, look after the children, cook meals, take care of the bills, in fact what do Men like you Kengs do after you get off work? Nothing that I've ever noted, everything is a "Woman's responsibility" go back to that era hell no. Gone are the days when we were nothing more than brood mares and maids. Good grief what have males suffered to "Placate Women"? Is driving a mini-van really that bad, no room in the two seater for the wife and kids only the "Baby Sitter" cough cough.

Jebus, you idea of the "Ideal World" is my worst nightmare.

I look forward to your rebuttal on what Men have "Sacrificed" to Placate us Kengs. If you want to improve society stop living in the past where men ruled and women were worked to death or died giving birth to six children in seven years.

I didn't snag me a husband ( is that some kind of Hill Billy lingo) because of his career I snagged him because we had alot in common. Honestly this kind of stuff reminds me of my GrandDa from Scotland, and he was a COOK. Yep made bread for a living, how manly is that girls?

[MountainMan]

Many are just getting by and need both parents working. This is life in the new millenium.

I still disagree. You and I are probably destined to disagree on this point, but as i said, I think most of it is because people want more "stuff'.

Why is a man not "putting his children at risk" by going to work and enjoying his career?

Touche. I think that any two parent household is potentially putting their children at risk if both parents work outside the home. As I said earlier, I found a wonderful provider for when I was at work. That is possible for single moms, single dads and two parent families, but the risk is greater for single parent families because they have to put the kids in day care. Two parent families mitigate the risk because they have the option to not use daycare.

I've been a hot commodity all these years and I had a child at home on my own. wink.gif

I am good at what I do therefore I am "hot" in the job market. Doesn't matter if I have kids or not, it's all about how I perfrom at work.

Yes, the single father's career may suffer. But what about the married father? Does his career suffer? No. The married woman's, yes.

I understand this, but for me, sometimes things depended upon being available for extra hours. I didn't have family available to pick up familial duties and thus had to leave work at times. That made me less of a benefit to the company regardless of my skills. It happens with women more frequently than men, but the result is the same. The tendency in society is to have the mother take time off before the father does.

I have not advocated for a government "program". As I am not in the daycare business I do not know what difficulties/issues they face. Provincially we already have daycare subsidy programs for low income families, but I don't think money is the biggest issue -- finding a space to place the child seems to be the problem.

And this is just my lack of knowledge about you personally, and your country. It was not meant as an insult against you.

Exactly, and if your children have a good experience at daycare, chances are that moms out there that want to work will too. Which is why I have a problem with people saying that women going out to work "put their children at risk".

My point was more that anybody that puts their children in daycare runs a risk. Two parent families have a lot better chance of eliminating that risk than single parents do.

Please try not to take things so personally, I was being more general in my comments than specific.

[Oleg Bach]

I still disagree. You and I are probably destined to disagree on this point, but as i said, I think most of it is because people want more "stuff'.

Touche. I think that any two parent household is potentially putting their children at risk if both parents work outside the home. As I said earlier, I found a wonderful provider for when I was at work. That is possible for single moms, single dads and two parent families, but the risk is greater for single parent families because they have to put the kids in day care. Two parent families mitigate the risk because they have the option to not use daycare.

I understand this, but for me, sometimes things depended upon being available for extra hours. I didn't have family available to pick up familial duties and thus had to leave work at times. That made me less of a benefit to the company regardless of my skills. It happens with women more frequently than men, but the result is the same. The tendency in society is to have the mother take time off before the father does.

And this is just my lack of knowledge about you personally, and your country. It was not meant as an insult against you.

My point was more that anybody that puts their children in daycare runs a risk. Two parent families have a lot better chance of eliminating that risk than single parents do.

Please try not to take things so personally, I was being more general in my comments than specific.

My compliments Mountain Man. If left to your own devices as a conservative without liberal harrassment - you speak well...I enjoyed that....and thanks my old friend for the fatherly advice...stay around...Your turn to be the exchange student. What I see as wonderful is that you will be able to speak freely here...welcome to Canada bud...don't mean to out you..but now I will see the real you - and I will read the post perfectly..thank you - and send my love to America when you get back....The most passionate and colourful people on earth...yes - took a while - but to truely know the grass roots yank is to love them*

[Drea]

You really seem to put much stock in the fact that your son can wash dishes and clean toilets. Personally, I prefer to place greater importance on skills like being able to read and write, in particular forgein languages, developing a taste for literature and academics, and striving to be a good, moral, Christian person.

We are not Christian, don't want to be....But why in the sweet jebus am I explaining myself to you anyway?

Even after I damn near climbed through the computer to slit your thr...

I am just going to respond nicely to your extremely ignorant sexist MYSOGYNIST post. M'kay?

But I guess it's not really pc to have high expectations of one's chidlren anymore. We're just supposed to toss them into secular society and hope that they manage to learn how to survive on their own, and if they manage to get passable grades and learn some sort of middling occupation, we can then rejoice at the fact that our children didn't become loser and failures.

Secular society is where sanity comes from. I can see from your evangelical tone that you are not a member of Mensa.

And thank god for non believers. Nuts like you would have us "free" women burned as witches by now because we call our clits "toys".

Really, we only have your assessment to go on, so none of us really know what you son is really like.

But if I may be frank for a moment, in the past you have discussed you lifestyle and social attitudes, and to me it really makes me wonder how he will turn out. As he is only a teen, things can change considerably when he "grows up". I saw it happen to some of my friends in high school when they removed themselves from the control of their parents, and they went sliding down hill quite quickly. So things could change rapidly.

Speaking from experience are you? Got bad kids? Didn't "follow through" as they were growing up? Too busy slapping down wifey when she gets uppity? Hey pm me, I can give you some parenting tips.

Why were you a single mother in the first place? I mean, why were you really a single mother?

I killed him. He never used the wipers when it was light rain and that really bothered me.

And what will your reaction be if one day he starts bedding all these women and just happens to slip one past the goalie with someone who it turns out he only was interested in because she was easy? What comes around, goes around, I guess.

But let me be frank for a moment Kengs...

uckfaye oooooyay ouyay iblethay umpinhay eakfray.

See what a nice sense of humour I have?

Cheers!

[Drea]

He is. How many women divorce men because his career gets in the way of spending time of with the family? Men simply have it worse than women. On the one hand, he has to go out there and get a great job, career so he can snag himself a woman, yet in order to maintain that career he has to go along with whatever the job requirements are, such as long hours, travel, long commutes, etc.

Wahhh what a whiner. Why the heck didn't you marry a woman with career? Lessen the financial burden on yourself. You want a wife/slave at home but you are not willing to suck it up and pay for her... slaves are not free you know.

If he wants time out for the family, then he puts his career and income at risk; but if he doesn't spend time with the family, then he puts his income and family at risk. People sympathize much more with women who want to spend more time with the children and lose some income, or have to change careers; and nobody questions the sanity of a woman's decision to "choose" to remain at home with the kids.

Afraid of being seen as a "girly man" if you stay home and wifey goes out to work? Afraid the little old church ladies will look down on you? Psss. they already do... all you are is a walking wallet.

As with most women, you only see things from your (the woman's) perspective, and take for granted the sacrifices that men make to keep their women placated. If only we could return to a time where women are raised to have a more understanding and respectful attitude towards their men--there would be a definite improvement in our society.

In other words... "Wahhhh I want my priveledged status as head of household and slave owner back -- my woman, she should listen and take orders no questions asked. She should not have any thoughts or ideas of her own. I own her because I married her."

You need to keep your wife "placated"? How do you do that? Do you drug her or what?

Ahhhh if only we could go back to a time when women are "raised" (what are we cattle?) to be slaves -- perhaps you should move to some theocratic country where women are second class citizens and you can lament the plight of slaveless men everywhere.

[Guest American Woman]

I think it's interesting that Drea and I agree on this issue for the most part. We agree that what's right for one woman isn't necessary right for another. We agree that by choosing a good day care, kids will likely turn out just fine in spite of being in day care and mom working. We agree that if kids are raised by not so great parents, the kids likely don't turn out so great even if mom stays home with them.

I think it's interesting because Drea said she always knew she wanted a career along with motherhood. On the other hand, I've always wanted to be home with my kids-- and that's the path I took. So Drea doesn't think her way is the only right way and I don't think my way is the only right way. And we're both right. We recognize that what's important is that we have a choice. Many women don't have a choice and have to work, but the choice should still be there for those who CAN make it.

Furthermore, I believe a father can stay home just as surely as a mother can. So I think men who complain because women are out in the workforce don't have a leg to stand on. THEY can stay home with the kids. What's stopping them? Why do they expect the woman to be the one to do it?

[luvacuppajoe]

I've raised (or, am raising actually) three kids and have experience in working outside the home and using childcare, working at home without childcare and being at home with them.

I agree that there is no one ideal solution to all situations or individuals but for me, hands down staying home with my kids (in the preschool years especially) was the best choice. It was challenging at best, agonizing at worst, to leave my little ones with someone else for 40 hours a week.

I agree with the sentiment that the quality of parenting matters more than quantity, but I would think a child would have to have some horrendous parenting for a daycare to be the superior choice at the end of the day. How bad does a parent have to be that it would be to their benefit to be raised by a daycare or a babysitter?

What's interesting though is that this thread is discussing the role of mothers when the point of the OP was that children are more at risk in step and blended families where the man is not their biological father. That's a finding I can heartily agree with, as a man (or woman, for that matter) does not generally have the same emotional investment in the well being of a child who is not his own. His primary concern and motivation is going to be the mother, in the words of Chrissie Hynde, the babies just come with the scenery.

Of course there are exceptions to the rule, but they are the exceptions imo.

[Guest coot]

Traditional families work better economically, emotionally, and socially. Everyone knows it, the studies show it, and it's not even debatable. The fact that there are exceptions to the rule doesn't negate the rule.

There are so many exceptions to your rule that there isn't even a rule left.

[Moxie]

American Women and Drea I applaud both of your posts, for sanity sake I didn't bother to copy them because I concur with both of you. That is what's so great about being a female in the twenty first century WE decide, it's not society that deems what is proper anymore. I think it's wonderful if a female wants to stay home and raise her children, it's the hardest job (in my opinion) on earth. I also applaud Drea, I decided very young I didn't want children EVER. I watched my siblings (nine of them) get married young and have children, I realised that it wasn't a life style I wanted for me. Education and travel were my dreams. I've taken alot of flak over the years for being married and childless, I often get asked the question "Who will take care of you when you get old"? Whomever I pay to do so is my answer.

I have met men who are better fathers than the female is a "Mother", some people are natural in their parental role others it's pure hard work. I admire those that stick with it, single or married. I consider the family unit to be what ever you choose it to be. It can be relatives, friends or a social group you rely on. I think it's great that females have evolved to embrace what ever lifestyle best fits their personality. Society and it's norms can kiss me bum.

Cupofjoe wrote: What's interesting though is that this thread is discussing the role of mothers when the point of the OP was that children are more at risk in step and blended families where the man is not their biological father. That's a finding I can heartily agree with, as a man (or woman, for that matter) does not generally have the same emotional investment in the well being of a child who is not his own. His primary concern and motivation is going to be the mother, in the words of Chrissie Hynde, the babies just come with the scenery.

Of course there are exceptions to the rule, but they are the exceptions imo.

Actually Joe I have found that a equal number of natural fathers are the dead beat parent, many of my friends and family are in their second marrages. After the divorce the father is somewhat active in his childrens life but once the female remarries it's as if he wants no further contact with HIS children. They stop support payments, and will quit their jobs to ensure they can't be forced to pay. They cut off all contact with their children and in many cases start new families with a girl friend. These kids lives are left an emotional wreck, why do men behave this way? Punishing the children because their mother moved on with her life. My nieces and nephews have grown to hate their natural fathers, yet they have strong bonds with their step fathers. Who stepped in and took on the role of father, not because they wanted to but because the natural father tossed his children away like garbage. It's the step fathers that stood up to the plate and took on the parenting challenge out of sheer necessity.

All a child needs is love, safty and boundries. The family is whatever it is as long as love and security are part of it a child will thrive.

[Drea]

Thank you American Woman. Thank you Moxie. I appreciate you both.

I was so spitting mad yesterday that I was ready to squeeze myself right through the cable in the wall and choke a certain someone...

Moxie, I too learned from my sibling. My sister had her children young (and I am 5 years younger than her) and watched how she dealt with them (no consistency, no follow through) and knew I would do it differently. IMO kids need consistent parenting, clearly defined boundaries (that don't move!) sprinkled generously with love and forgiveness.

[luvacuppajoe]

Actually Joe I have found that a equal number of natural fathers are the dead beat parent, many of my friends and family are in their second marrages. After the divorce the father is somewhat active in his childrens life but once the female remarries it's as if he wants no further contact with HIS children. They stop support payments, and will quit their jobs to ensure they can't be forced to pay. They cut off all contact with their children and in many cases start new families with a girl friend. These kids lives are left an emotional wreck, why do men behave this way? Punishing the children because their mother moved on with her life. My nieces and nephews have grown to hate their natural fathers, yet they have strong bonds with their step fathers. Who stepped in and took on the role of father, not because they wanted to but because the natural father tossed his children away like garbage. It's the step fathers that stood up to the plate and took on the parenting challenge out of sheer necessity.

All a child needs is love, safty and boundries. The family is whatever it is as long as love and security are part of it a child will thrive.

Yup, step parents can be wonderful people, I have a step father myself who is everything to me. That doesn't negate the reality that a good many children (as the OP article shows) who are abused are done so at the hands of husbands and boyfriends of their mothers.

The other exception to the rule is that custodial mothers often refer to their children's fathers as "sperm donors" and look at them as nothing more than a walking wallet. Plenty of women cut off contact between child and father and some don't want their kids but refuse to relinquish custody to a willing father because it means losing child support, and more importantly sometiems, control.

It takes all kinds, moxie, and the world is full of them but in general terms, I think the article's contention is true. Biological fathers on the whole are less of a risk for their children.

[Drea]

I think many single mothers think about what it would be like to be with the child's father as a family.

Not very many single mothers, or single fathers, plan to be that way. Most of the time we start out with good intensions and things just don't work out.

I've been lucky. My experience with step parents has been positive. I had a great step father and my hubby is a great guy with our son. Yah, we call him "ours". We've known him since kiddo was in Gr. 1.

I have wondered what it would've been like if his father and I were together... but no...I wasn't willing to take on an irresponsible, needy man on top of everything else.

[kengs333]

Furthermore, I believe a father can stay home just as surely as a mother can. So I think men who complain because women are out in the workforce don't have a leg to stand on. THEY can stay home with the kids. What's stopping them? Why do they expect the woman to be the one to do it?

Excuse me? What's stopping them? How many women would really marry a man who wants to stay at home with the kids while maybe working part time while she goes out and brings home the bacon? You've got to be kidding. I can think of exactly ZERO instances where this has happened amongst my friends, relations, co-workers. ZERO. Why? Because women want men to earn lots of money so they can spend it--which was made quite clear to me in ALL of my relationships.

[kengs333]

In other words... "Wahhhh I want my priveledged status as head of household and slave owner back -- my woman, she should listen and take orders no questions asked. She should not have any thoughts or ideas of her own. I own her because I married her."

Seriously, you really need to grow up. Bad enough the characteristics that you've already admitted to that led to your child being born in less than ideal circumstances, but in making the above comment and just the nature of your other posts, I can only image what kind of dreck you've instilled in him. And it's clear why you've had the problems that you've had.

[Drea]

Seriously, you really need to grow up. Bad enough the characteristics that you've already admitted to that led to your child being born in less than ideal circumstances, but in making the above comment and just the nature of your other posts, I can only image what kind of dreck you've instilled in him. And it's clear why you've had the problems that you've had.

You haven't a clue as to what I have or have not done -- not only that but it's really none of your business at all. The discussion is about families. It began as a slam against nontraditional families and has evolved from there.

Do please try to keep up.

Excuse me? What's stopping them? How many women would really marry a man who wants to stay at home with the kids while maybe working part time while she goes out and brings home the bacon? You've got to be kidding. I can think of exactly ZERO instances where this has happened amongst my friends, relations, co-workers. ZERO. Why? Because women want men to earn lots of money so they can spend it--which was made quite clear to me in ALL of my relationships.

It sucks to be you then doesn't it.

My hubby is just deciding about going back to school and I make more than enough money to maintain our lifestyle. What a pleasure for him to be able to do this thanks to the fact that his wife earns a high income. He is certainly glad that I chose to have a career.

Pity the poor bastard who never had the balls to marry a woman with a career. Now he is stuck in his same old job for life. Pity him. Pity you Kengs that you will never be able to let down the yoke that you put on your young self. Congratulations on getting to be a "breadwinning-boss-of-the-household-he-man" and then whining about it.

Time to grow up Kengs. You made your bed (married a woman who wanted you only for your wallet) so lie in it (as my very wise mother would say).

Edited November 21, 2007 by Drea

[Oleg Bach]

Seriously, you really need to grow up. Bad enough the characteristics that you've already admitted to that led to your child being born in less than ideal circumstances, but in making the above comment and just the nature of your other posts, I can only image what kind of dreck you've instilled in him. And it's clear why you've had the problems that you've had.

Hello - kengs 333 - Children have been born for thousands of years. Most under "bad enough the characteristics that you've already admitted to ------------------and the "less than ideal circumstances" Let me inform you..if I had listend to folks like you my four adult children would not exist and I would suffer a poverty worse than the lack of money could ever generate. Children are not the property of the state - I OWN MY OFFSPRING...so this vacarious apporach to the coveting of other property under the guise of social benevolence is an intrusion into family. Like I said - there were detractors that told me to insist that my spouse abort the first - that as a working musican and half crazed artist - I could not have children and should not allow them to be born.

Four children arrived and not as you say under "ideal circumstances" as if there is an ideal circumstance in the world for humans to be born - there are none..still - mine are grown and brilliant and a blessing - money or no money we survived - and all those that dispised my daring - are all dealing with dysfunction - all let lawyers have their way with their families - commodifying wife and child in the industry that is family law...and I - yes I managed to maintain a still united and happy little empire called family....they are mine....and vacarious socialist who want to control breeding and interfere in relationships believing they know better what is a natural act - can simply get lost.

[Guest American Woman]

Excuse me? What's stopping them? How many women would really marry a man who wants to stay at home with the kids while maybe working part time while she goes out and brings home the bacon? You've got to be kidding. I can think of exactly ZERO instances where this has happened amongst my friends, relations, co-workers. ZERO. Why? Because women want men to earn lots of money so they can spend it--which was made quite clear to me in ALL of my relationships.

First of all, I have to say it sounds as if maybe you should be looking for a different type of woman than you have been because if this describes ALL of your relationships, that says as much about you as the women you've been in relationships with. Afer all, you picked them. Makes me wonder what you're looking for in a woman.

I have to ask, how many of your friends, relations, and co-workers WANT to be a stay-at-home dad? Is this their heart's desire, but the women won't go for it? I would wager otherwise, yet you make it sound as if the reason they aren't is because the women in their lives won't go for it.

I do know of stay-at-home dad households. My kids' doctor is one. One of my mom's best friend's daugher is another. Truth be told, I don't know of a lot of stay-at-home dad families, but I honestly don't know of a lot of stay-at-home mom families either. Most are duel income households. I know of women who would like to be home, but their husbands want them out working, earning money. So if there are men who would like to be home but their wives want them out working, they're not alone.

But what I'm seeing on this board is men who think women should 'chose' to have babies and stay home.

Edited November 21, 2007 by American Woman

[kengs333]

First of all, I have to say it sounds as if maybe you should be looking for a different type of woman than you have been because if this describes ALL of your relationships, that says as much about you as the women you've been in relationships with. Afer all, you picked them. Makes me wonder what you're looking for in a woman.

But what I'm seeing on this board is men who think women should 'chose' to have babies and stay home.

No, sadly, it's something that's becoming pretty much universal; feminism, consumerism, materialism, individualism, have crept into much of Christian society as well--which I guess makes you really happy, right?--making truly good women a really rare phenomenon, in my opinion.

It's not what men "think," it's simply what is best for the proper raising of children and a stable family. Of course it's contingent on women being raised to be proper mothers, since women who stay at home with children can, if misguided, just as readily instill the wrong kind of values and do more harm than good. Father, of course, who are not raised properly will tend to abuse their role, and view it as being a position of authority to the extent where their behaviour is detrimental, as well.

[Drea]

making truly good women a really rare phenomenon, in my opinion.

What makes a "truly good woman" in your opinion?

[Oleg Bach]

What makes a "truly good woman" in your opinion?

Ask my opionion? I would say reasonablity and loyalty combined with a pride in her femaleness and a true un-imbittered love for males.

[M.Dancer]

What makes a "truly good woman" in your opinion?

Anticipating when I need a fresh beer

[Guest American Woman]

No, sadly, it's something that's becoming pretty much universal; feminism, consumerism, materialism, individualism, have crept into much of Christian society as well--which I guess makes you really happy, right?--making truly good women a really rare phenomenon, in my opinion.

I still say you're hanging around with the wrong crowd. I'd be curious what kind of woman you are looking for; what you consider most important. I have no idea why you would think consumerism and materialism in our society would "make me happy," but if you don't think as many men are just as materialistic as women, I think you need to take another look around you. As for "individualism," do you seriously see that as a bad thing? Do you think we should all strive to be clones of one another? I'm not sure what you mean when you refer to "feminism," but if you mean it in the sense that women strive the same goals and want the same choices and opportunities as men, then yes, that's a good thing. Do you see it otherwise?

And for the record, I am a truly good woman.

It's not what men "think," it's simply what is best for the proper raising of children and a stable family. Of course it's contingent on women being raised to be proper mothers, since women who stay at home with children can, if misguided, just as readily instill the wrong kind of values and do more harm than good. Father, of course, who are not raised properly will tend to abuse their role, and view it as being a position of authority to the extent where their behaviour is detrimental, as well.

I still say men who want a parent home with the children should be just as willing to be the one to stay home as they expect women to be. You can say women don't want that, but you'd have to be honest about the majority of men actually wanting to do it. I still say the majority of couples choose to be a dual income family together. That is to say, both partners want both paychecks and the things they can buy.

Edited November 21, 2007 by American Woman