Russia to the West... is it a Threat or Hope?

[mzaseka]

And whois NORNA? NRN?

NORNA is program. It stands for National Liberation of Russian People.... from Empire of course.

NRN - New Russian Nationalists who are implementing NORNA

[leo]

NORNA is program. It stands for National Liberation of Russian People.... from Empire of course.

NRN - New Russian Nationalists who are implementing NORNA

Excuse me, but where did you find about NORNA and NRN in this particular article? Are you reading between the lines?

[maxsyno]

Russia is brassic and broken. I do not know how you could think her a threat to the West.

[mzaseka]

Russia is brassic and broken. I do not know how you could think her a threat to the West.

Did you read the article itself? http://www.vdesyatku.com/RussiaToTheWest.html If you read it you will realize why it's a threat.

[leo]

Russia is brassic and broken. I do not know how you could think her a threat to the West.

Well, even little rusty riffle could shoot. What would you say about the second after US nuclear power in the world? Even if it's rusty. Do you see R.I.P. on its grave already? I do not.

[maxsyno]

Russia has been MAINTAINED as underdeveloped by the West for many years. Any interest in its oil by the west means that Russia will be exploited because of its lack of facilities, technology and more.

However, China has built up indusry at an alarming rate. It needs vast quantities of oil. America is going to keep the Arab oil suppliers for itself. This could have been a huge problem for China since it has only recently built up its industrial capacity to compete with the world. It is 100% dependent upon oil import. It has been expected that oil blocades to China through US policy were going to occur, as oil depletion/mad competition is expected. It seems likely that Russia could/would supply China. However, we do not know how the US and europeans will take this.

They may become paranoid and start repeating the ideologies of the cold war and thereby to act accordingly. However, the US could act upon thse fears with ease. However, Russia is in need of support not war. It simply could not survive.I guess that the european interest in Russia's oil is precisely because Russia could supply China all its oil so they want a piece of the economic pie. They would have to send over engineers and so fourth anyway to get the project moving. In that sense the europeans would protect there own interest which in turn would protect Russia whom they intend to exploit.

Hence the problem would perhaps be between the US and euro's. China needs oil to function so it cannot risk itself in alligning itself with Russia. Russia wants full participation in the world market which means it is completely at the mercy of the US good will!

[mzaseka]

Excuse me, but where did you find about NORNA and NRN in this particular article? Are you reading between the lines?

The particular article was written originally by professor Peter Khomyakov. He is actually an ideologist of NRN and NORNA. More about NRN please read here http://www.vdesyatku.com/NewRusianNationalists.html

As for NORNA, they do not have it translated into English yet. In Russian it's available here http://www.nordrus.org/norna/detail.php?ID=1057 . As NRN just appeared on Russian political field as a net project in January 2007, they still do not have many things translated. When they get it done i will let you know. But it's the most adequate to the Western interests political stream today.

[MMT]

Russia has been MAINTAINED as underdeveloped by the West for many years. Any interest in its oil by the west means that Russia will be exploited ...

The question is how. Do you seriously believe that the same approach which worked yesterday will work tomorrow?

They may become paranoid and start repeating the ideologies of the cold war and thereby to act accordingly. However, the US could act upon thse fears with ease. However, Russia is in need of support not war. It simply could not survive.I guess that the european interest in Russia's oil is precisely because Russia could supply China all its oil so they want a piece of the economic pie. They would have to send over engineers and so fourth anyway to get the project moving. In that sense the europeans would protect there own interest which in turn would protect Russia whom they intend to exploit.

It does not seem so easy. Putin's regime is a police state. He went too far already.

The article's quote: <<here again we could see a political and ideological problem. Putin's regime played too far the "patriotism" and anti-western rhetoric game. And the middle layer of the Russia's power structures (FSB – ex-KGB, police and army), who is the backbone of the regime, got truly believed in it. Therefore, the large-scale western capital invasion in the "Holiest of Holy", the Russian oil & gas complex, is simply impossible. If it happened now, it would be similarly strange as an imaginary invitation of the Al Qaida members to join the administration of the United States. Regardless of all kind of possible hypothetical promises and swears made by those "fellows", the situation would be completely unacceptable to America. >>

Russia wants full participation in the world market which means it is completely at the mercy of the US good will!

So you think that this Russia's regime will stay obeying all the West commands? How would you answer another quote of the article?

<< And we repeat, that even if we believed in the political stability of the regime (in which the Kremlin so vigorously tries to assure everybody), the destabilization would still take place because of purely natural causes of the oil and gas industry collapse. How far the Kremlin could go when facing such destabilization? Would the recent light demonstrative RF's demarches against the consolidated western diplomacy in Venezuela and Iran be seemed as simply easy warm up then? >>

This regime is already behaving as a dog not listening to the master. So what do you suggest a good master would do to such a dog? Try to teach it a lesson? Or change the dog? Do you still think that this dog is harmless to the master?

You may say, let's kick the Putin's ass and put somebody else in the Kremlin's chair. OK. How easy is that? And who would you suggest to put in the chair?

I guess, that's the questions which this article was striking.

Do we have suitable answers?

[maxsyno]

Did/do you not think Iraq et al equally fraught with the prospect of war? These countries could have allied together because they do have something to lose - oil. However, the US is 'managing' these folk. . . .in its usual ugly way.

Russia is in absolutely no position of opposition. THe country is a mess. IT has been subject to economic blockades and sanctions for far too long as imposed by the west. It has absolutely nothing to gain through war. Every single hope of surival would be dashed if they chanced it. They will not. Unless of course it could rally very rich allies .

By the way the third world is still maintained today, as it was throughout its colonised history, as underdeveloped and impoverished.

Edited November 11, 2007 by maxsyno

[mzaseka]

Russia has been MAINTAINED as underdeveloped by the West for many years. Any interest in its oil by the west means that Russia will be exploited because of its lack of facilities, technology and more.

However, China has built up indusry at an alarming rate. It needs vast quantities of oil. America is going to keep the Arab oil suppliers for itself. This could have been a huge problem for China since it has only recently built up its industrial capacity to compete with the world. It is 100% dependent upon oil import. It has been expected that oil blocades to China through US policy were going to occur, as oil depletion/mad competition is expected. It seems likely that Russia could/would supply China. However, we do not know how the US and europeans will take this.

They may become paranoid and start repeating the ideologies of the cold war and thereby to act accordingly. However, the US could act upon thse fears with ease. However, Russia is in need of support not war. It simply could not survive.I guess that the european interest in Russia's oil is precisely because Russia could supply China all its oil so they want a piece of the economic pie. They would have to send over engineers and so fourth anyway to get the project moving. In that sense the europeans would protect there own interest which in turn would protect Russia whom they intend to exploit.

Hence the problem would perhaps be between the US and euro's. China needs oil to function so it cannot risk itself in alligning itself with Russia. Russia wants full participation in the world market which means it is completely at the mercy of the US good will!

Just take a look what the article says about it!

This ideological trend is ready to give a "green light" to the western capital for the access to the natural gas fields, which Russia could not develop on its own. And not just gas. Few people are aware that there are two new oil field regions in Russia, which are not being exploited yet simply because of lack of the capacity and know how. The first is the Central Russia oil with about 3.5 billion tons of oil estimated. And another is Leno-Vilyuy oil basin with estimate about 11 billion tons (Leno-Vilyuy basin located near the place where Vilyuy River joins the

Lena River, in the southern part of Yakutia).Incidentally, the Leno-Vilyuy basin is in close proximity to China . Perhaps, the West is not indifferent to who would gain an access to such a wealth in the end of the Russian crisis.Third. It is no secret that the ideological trend, being characterized here, has a sharp anti-Muslim vector. And in case of its political success it's ready to contribute actively to the West in solving the problems of Iraq and Afghanistan and so on.

[leo]

Did/do you not think Iraq et al equally fraught with the prospect of war? These countries could have allied together because they do have something to lose - oil. However, the US is 'managing' these folk. . . .in its usual ugly way.

Russia is in absolutely no position of opposition. THe country is a mess. IT has been subject to economic blockades and sanctions for far too long as imposed by the west. It has absolutely nothing to gain through war. Every single hope of surival would be dashed if they chanced it. They will not. Unless of course it could rally very rich allies .

By the way the third world is still maintained today, as it was throughout its colonised history, as underdeveloped and impoverished.

Oh, dear! There is a slight difference between Iraq and Russia, don't you see that? One got lot of nukes, another didn't. One still has a power to enforce military strength of Venezuela and "grant" the nuclear power to Iran, but another could only dream of such opportunities!

You're saying that the country (Russia) is a mess. I don't know, perhaps you are right.

But this was like that many times in their history. Wasn't it a mess when communists took power at the end of WWI? Should I remind you how far they advanced in WWII? They paid huge price - they lost millions of men and their industry got severely destroyed by the the strongest military machine (Germany). It was a complete mess again, and...? And they rose again to compete with the West! And it took a lot of consolidated strenth and character of the West led by US to win the cold war.

You're kind of saying that we may stay as a couch potato and not to worry much, eh?

I'd love to be you...

You think they don't want new war? But who are them? Russian people? Let me agree with you, perhaps they don't want a war. But should we worry about Russians not willing to fight?

How about that little dictator sitting in the Czar's chair? Doesn't this short man remind you another creatures which our history suffered enough from? You are pleased with him and fully control this little Napoleon temper?

Well, I can't be so confident as you are...

God bless everyone who could convert Russia's empire into true western democracy!

If we have a chance, we shouldn't turn down our friends.

[mzaseka]

Well, even little rusty riffle could shoot. What would you say about the second after US nuclear power in the world? Even if it's rusty. Do you see R.I.P. on its grave already? I do not.

Russia could ‘convalesce’ but only by changing its obsolete Byzantine state structure. Many people inside the country want this. These forces have great potential, but at present they are weak. They remind me of a huge pile of dry firewood with gasoline poured over it - but they don’t have any matches! And there’s nowhere inside the country where they can get them. They can only get matches from outside. When they’ve got them, they can do the rest themselves.

[maxsyno]

Oh, dear! There is a slight difference between Iraq and Russia, don't you see that?

The point is not to 'blue print' the differences. Its to do with support or otherwise from other nations and what particular economic relations are being practised as we type.

One got lot of nukes, another didn't. One still has a power to enforce military strength of Venezuela and "grant" the nuclear power to Iran, but another could only dream of such opportunities!

Definately going down hill now. For a start your 'trying' to be patronising, but its more embarrassing to you from what you have written above.

"You're saying that the country (Russia) is a mess. I don't know, perhaps you are right".

But this was like that many times in their history. Wasn't it a mess when communists took power at the end of WWI"

Yes and i was not disbuting any of these points.

They paid huge price - they lost millions of men and their industry got severely destroyed by the the strongest military machine (Germany). It was a complete mess again, and...? And they rose again to compete with the West!

That was then.

Like I said the country has sold out to the US/West so today it does not have strength

"And it took a lot of consolidated strenth and character of the West led by US to win the cold war".

Precisely

You're kind of saying that we may stay as a couch potato and not to worry much, eh?

I'd love to be you...

Not at all; but do us a favour and STFU

Can you stop vvanking all over my screen. I can't read through this milky mash of a post because its dripping with your ego. If somebody has a different point to you then don't get an errection and jack off all over the place. Be civil there's a good fellow!

You mention the 'hip' term couch potato. Meaning its best to be a 'man of action', a soldier, a politico or in a nutshell to be uninformed. A celebrated idiot, completely stupid and un reflexive because debate is so not cool. Today, those who are heroically activist here have no idea of how to think and strategise because they fear the red neck term 'couch potatoe". So much do these blank slates want to be cool, they dont even know whether they are fighting for the left or right. Actually; you DONT HAVE A LEFT WING IN THIS COUNTRY. NOTHING REMOTELY LIKE IT.

So could I sign up for your 'private army?' Im so impressed by your 'unthinking'

Afterall, we cannot be wasting our time trying to actually think about the world. Much like the US. They are not couch potatoes, they are hereos!!! Lucky American citizens to be so brainless!! They just do as there told and kill whom ever Bush decides to and buy into his crap ideology. Thats a hero in your ideas?

Yes. I too am glad to be me. I cannot be bothered to communicate with you. You actually stink.

The rest of your comments are not worth engaging because of your complete ignorance and arrogance. The two combined makes you the most perfect idiot to be manipulated into fighting somebody elses war.

You think they don't want new war? But who are them? Russian people? Let me agree with you, perhaps they don't want a war. But should we worry about Russians not willing to fight?

How about that little dictator sitting in the Czar's chair? Doesn't this short man remind you another creatures which our history suffered enough from? You are pleased with him and fully control this little Napoleon temper?

YOU REALLY ARE A RUNT!!

Well, I can't be so confident as you are...

God bless everyone

YEAH RIGHT! LETS ALL PRAYER TO LIL JESUS

who could convert Russia's empire into true western democracy!

If we have a chance, we shouldn't turn down our friends.

Listen vvank stain. How many wars have you fought in? Canada does not even have a history, much less help the world. So keep your lil friend tucked to the right of your pocket alright! And stop playing with it!

Edited November 11, 2007 by maxsyno

[MMT]

Russia could ‘convalesce’ but only by changing its obsolete Byzantine state structure. Many people inside the country want this. These forces have great potential, but at present they are weak. They remind me of a huge pile of dry firewood with gasoline poured over it - but they don’t have any matches! And there’s nowhere inside the country where they can get them. They can only get matches from outside. When they’ve got them, they can do the rest themselves.

Here we go, again "matches". You seem to be a big fan of firework. I'm not convinced why we should force a change in Russia. Why should we want a huge raging fire instead of a nice quiet semi-corpse?

[maxsyno]

And after such a history of conflict its about time the people got what they wanted. However, because of the world economic pre-conditions for participating on the market, Im certain people feel many contradictory forces in the political arena. They also may be quite frightened of the possible consequenses which ever way Russia evolves.

[leo]

...

I did not call for a war. My point is that if we leave the Russia's crisis along and let it go, we could find ourselves in war one day. As for your personal and anti-American remarks erupted out of you - no comment. Bye.

[Moxie]

Russia is up to it's usual destablizing of other countries, eventually they'll look at the west to stir the pot.

Here's what they've been up to: Link: http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/11/11/sports/russia.php

Snippet: For the Balts, any move that angers Russia runs huge risks. Last month, for example, the Estonian state prosecutor charged four ethnic Russians with organizing riots in April to protest the government's move of a statue of a Soviet soldier from the capital to a suburb as the anniversary of victory in World War II neared. The Russian-language press had egged on the protesters.

After the riots, hackers briefly paralyzed Estonia's government and banks, and Estonia said the cyber-attacks were traced to Kremlin addresses.

The tensions over the riots come as the Baltic countries are trying to challenge Russia's energy monopoly. All three are resisting an ambitious Russian-German plan to build a pipeline under the Baltic Sea that would send oil directly from Russia to Western Europe - bypassing the Baltics and cutting them out of transit fees and access to the flow. Estonia has led this opposition, with a challenge on environmental grounds. Many Balts find it disheartening that the former German chancellor, Gerhard Schröder, sits on the board of the joint venture, in which Russians hold a 51 percent interest.

Yep the US is evil and China and Russia are just doing Biddness. With allies like them who needs enemys.

[mzaseka]

Russia is up to it's usual destablizing of other countries, eventually they'll look at the west to stir the pot.

Here's what they've been up to: Link: http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/11/11/sports/russia.php

Snippet: For the Balts, any move that angers Russia runs huge risks. Last month, for example, the Estonian state prosecutor charged four ethnic Russians with organizing riots in April to protest the government's move of a statue of a Soviet soldier from the capital to a suburb as the anniversary of victory in World War II neared. The Russian-language press had egged on the protesters.

After the riots, hackers briefly paralyzed Estonia's government and banks, and Estonia said the cyber-attacks were traced to Kremlin addresses.

The tensions over the riots come as the Baltic countries are trying to challenge Russia's energy monopoly. All three are resisting an ambitious Russian-German plan to build a pipeline under the Baltic Sea that would send oil directly from Russia to Western Europe - bypassing the Baltics and cutting them out of transit fees and access to the flow. Estonia has led this opposition, with a challenge on environmental grounds. Many Balts find it disheartening that the former German chancellor, Gerhard Schröder, sits on the board of the joint venture, in which Russians hold a 51 percent interest.

Yep the US is evil and China and Russia are just doing Biddness. With allies like them who needs enemys.

You see! Kremlin is not sleeping but terrorising everybody around, stiring up the turmoils. The monster will never come down, unless smb from inside RF cuts his throat.

Edited November 12, 2007 by mzaseka

[mzaseka]

Here we go, again "matches". You seem to be a big fan of firework. I'm not convinced why we should force a change in Russia. Why should we want a huge raging fire instead of a nice quiet semi-corpse?

Some people might not like it, but the way things are, any large-scale changes in the world can now be started more easily in Russia than anywhere else. Absolutely all those who are unhappy with the world have a chance of changing it, quite cheaply, by changing the situation in Russia. Cheaply just because Russia is a semi-corpse. But it’s a half-dead giant. And if it comes to life, it will be able to turn the world situation in any direction. And it is likely to do what those who bring it to life want. Is that plain enough for the ‘ordinary Joe’?”

[Jerry Galinda]

Russia believes that is different civilization than West.

Better civilization !

Better than rotten West.

That's all.

[MMT]

Some people might not like it, but the way things are, any large-scale changes in the world can now be started more easily in Russia than anywhere else. Absolutely all those who are unhappy with the world have a chance of changing it, quite cheaply, by changing the situation in Russia. Cheaply just because Russia is a semi-corpse. But it’s a half-dead giant. And if it comes to life, it will be able to turn the world situation in any direction. And it is likely to do what those who bring it to life want. Is that plain enough for the ‘ordinary Joe’?”

Sure, but isn't the situation getting out of control? Mightn't we end up with an enraged zombie instead of a grateful ally?

[mzaseka]

Sure, but isn't the situation getting out of control? Mightn't we end up with an enraged zombie instead of a grateful ally?

I repeat, there are various forces which might bring about the revival. And in many scenarios, we could well end up with a zombie. But if we help those who feel the same way we do, there won’t be any zombies, because they are really healthy forces, healthy themselves and able to help the world back to health!

[mzaseka]

Russia believes that is different civilization than West.

Better civilization !

Better than rotten West.

That's all.

Fanatics in Kremlin surely do believe so. They are mentally sick. The majority of the population does not care about special better civilization! They just want to be able to work and to earn their daily bread.

[Jerry Galinda]

Fanatics in Kremlin surely do believe so. They are mentally sick. The majority of the population does not care about special better civilization! They just want to be able to work and to earn their daily bread.

You are naive !

Russia disdain small nations and countries !

From ages - EMPIRE is more important for Russians than their life.

"Cannons instead of butter "- IT'S OBVIOUS FOR HIM !!!

They afraid only USA - in the future - China.

[MMT]

I repeat, there are various forces which might bring about the revival. And in many scenarios, we could well end up with a zombie. But if we help those who feel the same way we do, there won’t be any zombies, because they are really healthy forces, healthy themselves and able to help the world back to health!

Well, we still have to find out just how healthy they are...