Toronto School Board eyes "Afro-centric" school

[guyser]

I'm wonder just what kinds of jobs these kids expect to get later in life with that kind of school on their resume?

Christian Sunday School teachers?

Seems they were pretty good at teaching you , perhaps not hate, but intolerance for sure.

[kengs333]

Christian Sunday School teachers?

Seems they were pretty good at teaching you , perhaps not hate, but intolerance for sure.

Where exactly is the hate and intolerance? Do you even have any clue what agenda these people have, where they get their "black nationalist" ideas from? You can't tell me after watching that video that these kind of people are out to do good. They're no more interested in having a multicultural society than a neo-Nazi does, but since they're not white we all have to sit here and say nothing about it for fear of being branded "racists" by people like you.

[guyser]

Where exactly is the hate and intolerance?

In posts that you make here on MLW.

You could search using "homosexuals", "women" , "jews" , "aboriginals". That should get you started.

You can't tell me after watching that video that these kind of people are out to do good.

What video? You surely dont mean the one you linked ,( which by the way is really old and from a council meeting somewhere in the States,) that has nothing to do with your assertions? That video?

They're no more interested in having a multicultural society than a neo-Nazi does, but since they're not white we all have to sit here and say nothing about it for fear of being branded "racists" by people like you.

I am searching where I called you racist.....hang on a moment.....nope not finding it.

Anyhow , no we dont have to sit here and say nothing about it.Fear has nothing to do with it. We could probably inteligently debate their agenda should they have one. Or we could go for the "Christian Sky is Falling" hyperbole.

[jbg]

Where exactly is the hate and intolerance?

Well you're a Jew hater.

[kengs333]

Well you're a Jew hater.

Absolutely not.

[kengs333]

You could search using "homosexuals", "women" , "jews" , "aboriginals". That should get you started.

Now we're taking a page from Rue's guide to malicious lying? How exactly is wanting people to be better, free from sin, and for Canada to be good "hateful" and "intolerant"? I'm interested where you get the notion that I hate women. I find the reference to Jews to be most particularly ignorant, though, especially considering the manner in which you are so hostile to Christianity.

What video? You surely dont mean the one you linked ,( which by the way is really old and from a council meeting somewhere in the States,) that has nothing to do with your assertions? That video?

Astonishing how glibbly you can brush off something so clearly illustrative of the truth when it doesn't suit you. You would be outraged if that was a video in which Jews were the subject of the rant, and I doubt the fact that it was "really old" would be a concern either.

Anyhow , no we dont have to sit here and say nothing about it.Fear has nothing to do with it. We could probably inteligently debate their agenda should they have one. Or we could go for the "Christian Sky is Falling" hyperbole.

Oh, you didn't see the episode, then, did you--"inteligently [sic] debate their agenda" their agenda, indeed.

Well, thanks again for another really brilliant post.

[charter.rights]

Absolutely not.

A Jew hater.....not if their Christian Jews..

[guyser]

Now we're taking a page from Rue's guide to malicious lying? How exactly is wanting people to be better, free from sin, and for Canada to be good "hateful" and "intolerant"?

Malicious lying? Hey they are your posts . Call yourself a liar all you want.

You dont "want" anything to be better. You only want things done the christian way. Canada is already good , and the more secular we get, the better we become.

I understand your feelings . It is just that I dont care for christian proselytizing. Never did. But hey, you are free to practice and I wont be in your way. And you are being marginalized and it hurts , but face it , it is better for our country. So do the right thing for our country will you?

I'm interested where you get the notion that I hate women. I find the reference to Jews to be most particularly ignorant, though, especially considering the manner in which you are so hostile to Christianity.

Come on now, how many times do you need to hear you are a jew hater before it sinks in? Hate women...you..?...probably not , unless they are out of the kitchen, or on their back.

Astonishing how glibbly you can brush off something so clearly illustrative of the truth when it doesn't suit you.

No, I think what is astonishing is how you made some dumb assertion, then searched the web for some back up video. Only what you found was one wing nut off his meds , and you tried to pass it off as having some importance to your assertion.

You would be outraged if that was a video in which Jews were the subject of the rant, and I doubt the fact that it was "really old" would be a concern either.

Oh, you didn't see the episode, then, did you--"inteligently [sic] debate their agenda" their agenda, indeed.

Well, thanks again for another really brilliant post.

See, hear you go again. If jews were the subject of your rant , and you posted a video of jews being the subject of a rant, then I might get upset.

But you posted about educators, and included a video of a black man ranting to a city council about blacks being killed.

Your welcome to my brilliant posts anytime buttercup. It made more sense than yours , made obvious by your attempts to denigrate my spelling.

OUCH! I spelled a word wrong.......I am so upset.

[Rue]

True. What makes me wonder further is: what colour of skin is black enough to qualify?

Look I do not like the idea of seperate schools at all. However to answer your question the colour of skin would not be the qualification to be a student-anyone of any colour would be allowed to attend this school but presumably it would appeal to a certain element of the black community who feel their children would benefit from it.

From what I understand the parents who want this school do not presume to exclude anyone but do wish to have "African" culture play a very strong central role.

They are basing their arguement on the same one that was used to set up seperate schools for gays experiencing tension and hostility or alternative schools for "problem" children not doing well in the mainstream schools.

From what I understand the majority of black people are not expected to want to use this system and it would start of with one school as an experiment.

My concern is if you do this for "African" culture, then would you not need to do one for every other "culture" where numbers (parents) demand it because they feel their children are not doing well since the public school system is not supposed to favour any one group or ethnicity?

I personally believe the idea is flawed precisely for that reason-because it expects an institution which is supposed to be neutral, play favourites.

This is the kind of idea that belongs with a private school funded by a non profit organization or charity or with an after-school cultural or community organization.

With due respect I believe public schools should be neutral to all cultures and races, etc. and teach tolerance and diversity for them all.

To me the key is to assure all children going to public school be taught to tolerate one another, and black heritage or any other heritage has to be taught in a neutral equal manner. If parents feel their children are failing and not assimilating to maintstream values and think they need to get back to their cultural roots, then with due respect that is a private issue to be done after school within their cultural communities using their own volunteers through churches, charities, recreation and community centres, etc.

I believe it is important from the get go children learn diversity not isolation and exclusivity from one another.

That said, I believe the public school is not the tool to repair a community in despair-it has to come outside the school in the community by committed members of that community willing to volunteer and work in volunteer and recreation and community centres. Trying to have the public school take on this role is wishful thinking and quite frankly it sounds to me like angry parents doing what angry parents do, trying to delegate their parental responsibilities to see their children suceed to an institution they do not have to pay for or contribute to-their problem becomes someone else's fault and responsibility.

I think a child whose parent blames society for their children's problems is enabling their child to fail and condoning their failures and setting them up for future failure by encouraging them to believe they are victims in need of help from others.

I do not believe a public school can replace the need for a community's citizens to be directly involved in the education of their young with cultural or religious issues. That is not what a public school was designed to do. It is to equip people to survive in a society of many cultures.

We parents and our communities if we want our children to be proud of their culture or religion can not expect society to do it for us-we have to take that role on as parents after school and working with each other as a network not simply demanding the government do it.

No the school board can not simply give anything to anyone simply because they raise their voice at meetings and claim to be a victim.

I just could not see Martin Luther King if he was alive condoning or encouraging this.

I also think placing children in gay or alternative schools while done based on liberal and well meaning intentions simply postpones the inevitable and creates an unrealistic artificial environment rather then deal with the discrimination in the mainstream school when it happens.

Segregating people because they feel different or persecuted does what other than reinforce victimhood and entrench it?

I say all the above with due respect to people who strongly believe in the above because I know the people who support the above idea only want what they think is best for their children. I respect that and what they are trying to do. I just disagree with it.

Edited January 2, 2008 by Rue

[M.Dancer]

I wonder if by African they mean Sub Sarahan africa? Would it be racist if they omit the Berbers? What about the Libyans?

Apparently Boer culture is quite vibrant too.....

[Muddy]

This is what I expect will happen if the Black parents get their African centric school. The gang bangers will take it over quite quickly. The cooool dudes will have a home.The serious Black students will stay in the main stream system where they will no longer be under pressure in the hallways by bad guys. Recruitment in the gangs will take a hit. Of course the so called students who could not make it in the mainstream will fair no better in the new school ,so they will dumb down the testing so as to not disappoint the students , parents along with the social engineers who want this apartied system. They will graduate with a diploma that will not be regarded by Universitys as valid. Employers will not consider the piece of paper as a valid graduation from secondary school. Result? Nothing changes for these kids!

So what of the kids in the reguler scholls? Less kids ,Black ,White ,Yellow or Green going to main stream schools living in fear of the bullys in the gangs on a day to day basis. Being cooool won`t be so important. Getting educated will be.

Gee! We fought apartied and segragation didn`t we? Martin Luther King must be looking down on us with dismay and a tear in his eye. Sorry Sir! We are letting your memorey and quest down.

I wonder why I can`t get an Irish centric school for my grandkids? Whoops! We better not start up that nonsence again.

[jbg]

Gee! We fought apartied and segragation didn`t we? Martin Luther King must be looking down on us with dismay and a tear in his eye. Sorry Sir! We are letting your memorey and quest down.

I wonder why I can`t get an Irish centric school for my grandkids? Whoops! We better not start up that nonsence again.

Ain't that so, Muddy.

[Community Advocate]

yep. the one word that comes to mind is backwards.

[marcinmoka]

Bump.

They opened up the proverbial can'o'worms last night.

[RB]

Bump.

They opened up the proverbial can'o'worms last night.

Oh dear!

My only response how very very liberal we have become.

[Rue]

Oh dear!

My only response how very very liberal we have become.

It has nothing to do with Liberalism. That is a misunderstanding of the concept of Liberalism. The last thing liberalism advocates is creating ghettoes. It advocates the exact opposite.

What we have here is a classic example of tokenism.

Rather then address an issue, a token gesture is created that does not address the issue. Then certain people feel good about themselves and now can rationalize not doing anything about the issue.

That is all it is tokenism.

So they create a "black" school. What does it achieve? It creates a ghetto. That is all it does. It sends the message to black students to retreat to the ghetto when they think things are not going their way. What kind of b.s. is that?

It is predicated on the belief blacks are victims and weak and in need of shelter.

It is patronizing and insulting to all black people and all visible minority people who face racism each and every day and do not hide and stand their ground and prevail. That is who it really is insulting to.

So now there will be this token ghetto school. Whoopee. Nothing will change. All it will do is spit out some young people unprepared to deal with the real world where its a rainbow of colours, cultures and shades.

You want to deal with ignorance- you don't run from it you meet it head on. If you do not stand up to it head on, all you do is run from it and all this sugar coating will not change that fact.

This isn't liberalism, this is intellectual laziness and dishonesty. It takes a complex issue and tries to brush it under the carpet to placate what? Who is it placacting? It placates a minority of a minority who want to delegate individual responsibility for their fate onto others.

It turns a public school into a private exclusive one.

The problem is not skin colour. Its the self-defeating behaviour of a minority of people who want the easy way out.

This is an insult to all minorities who bust our butts off to stand our ground and not be bullied. It is of particular insult to the hundreds of thousands of black people who do not see themselves as weak and victims that need shelter but proud independent people who will stand and be counted and have met adversity head on with excellence and dignity.

This school will solve nothing. It will be the trend for some young blacks who feel peer pressure to go. Then soon other minority groups will want the same thing. Then what? A school system of specialized ghettoes, one for blacks, one for Sri Lankans, one for Chinese, and so on and son.

There's a positive way to build an inclusive community.

[M.Dancer]

Two parahrases :

One from Josh Matlow who voted against it....he said that while he was opposed to the idea, he can only wish that all new schools succeed. I agree with him. Hopefully the kids will learn to read and stay in school, but I think it is fraught with danger cause now the parents will have no one to blame if their kids turn out to be lay about thieves.

The other from an unknown critic who said that this idea should perfectly prepare black kids for black only jobs, if there were any....

He wasn't happy....

[marcinmoka]

Hopefully the kids will learn to read and stay in school, but I think it is fraught with danger cause now the parents will have no one to blame if their kids turn out to be lay about thieves.

Wishful thinking. Humanity, as a whole has never been short on ideas in this culture of 'scapegoatism'. Our ingenuity at finding alternate, and often absurd sources as the cause of our malaise has never failed to amaze me.

[marcinmoka]

-

Edited January 30, 2008 by marcinmoka

[M.Dancer]

You can say that again.

[Hydraboss]

I want a white-only school in Alberta so my kids can learn in an environment that relies heavily on the history of caucasion people and their traditions.

That's not racist.....is it?

(Oh, and I want the Canadian taxpayer to fund it.)

[M.Dancer]

I want a white-only school in Alberta so my kids can learn in an environment that relies heavily on the history of caucasion people and their traditions.

That's not racist.....is it?

(Oh, and I want the Canadian taxpayer to fund it.)

You have non whites in alberta?

[mikedavid00]

http://www.torontosun.com/FrontPage/2008/01/30/4800910.html

What a sad day to be a Canadian (again).

Unfortunately, a group of 16 school trustees has the power to determine the kind of country we would like to live in with our provincial gov't claiming they have no say in this matter even though they don't agree with it.

Well, last night, we went a step further then religious faith based schooling and decided to focus on race and skin color as the determining factor of the school. They will be gearing the curriculum towards 'Afro based' studies. The parents last night demanded that they only wanted black teachers.

Before everyone gets emotional on the issue, back up and realize that almost everyone there was a carribian immigrant. This issue has nothing to do with the US and their black slavory issues so please don't parrallel the two. In the US, Miss Park sat at the front of the bus not to segregate herself, but to sit with everyone else, to integrate.

This is just another immigrant group using their diversity as a tool to get into our political system and establish a power base as they continue to push for more. This is more immigrant segregation as they try to re-create their home countries in chosen settlements in Canada. NOT the same thing has the historic blacks in the US so please don't go there.

Now we'll have new generations of even more racially segregated kids who will simply not be able to function in the real world and blame all of their woes on 'other races'. Violence will come eventually.

What a truly, truly sad day to be a Canadian.

[Ergonomic]

You have non whites in alberta?

You need to get out more.

[guyser]

What a sad day to be a Canadian (again).

Perhaps you should find a better measuring stick when deciding to be proud or not. I dont for a minute like the idea of what is going on, however , I dont measure myself nor my country based on what some idiot trustees do.

Besides, trustees are known and have been known, especially in Toronto, as idiots since before you were born.

And since you aren't black , nor do you live in TO, I doubt it will matter much to you, except perhaps to vent some anti immigration stuff, in which case be careful.

I doubt many of these students are immigrants.

By the way, already have a thread...

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index....showtopic=10230

Edited January 30, 2008 by guyser