Turkey may pass parlimentry act to go to war with N Iraq

[moderateamericain]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/10/15...t.ap/index.html

This is a very delicate situation, especially for the United States. On one hand it would help us because it would put another countries troops into a destabalized area. Which could produce some order to the region. It would give the Turkish government a boost among its people, which might help stave off the more extreme Islamic reforms that have lately been pushed there. It would show we are also more than just allies of words with Turkey who have been so instrumental post world war 2 in keeping tabs on the Communist countries.

On the other hand. It could be disasterous. One needs to look no further than what happend to the armenians at the hands of the turks and see what kind of human rights track record they have. It would be devestating to the rebuilding effort in Iraq if we allowed turkety to essential cut off a corner of the country.

All in all its a political fiasco for the US. We could either lose a long time ally in a relatively moderate Islamic state. Or basically have wasted the last 7 years pumping millions of dollars and lives into Iraq.

Definetly the Rock and a hard place.

[M.Dancer]

Turkey has an obligation to protect herself from terrorists. The US has an obligation to Turkey ....if the US can't or won't disarm the PKK, then they should stand aside and whine form the endzone....

[Higgly]

Links please.

[moderateamericain]

Links please.

Admin delete this post, serves no purpose since higgly did not take the time to see my link.

Edited October 15, 2007 by moderateamericain

[M.Dancer]

Links please.

The one in the orignal post or are you looking for an invitation to golf?

[moderateamericain]

Turkey has an obligation to protect herself from terrorists. The US has an obligation to Turkey ....if the US can't or won't disarm the PKK, then they should stand aside and whine form the endzone....

I could not agree with you more, but even you have to agree allowing Turkey to essentially invade Iraq would be just about the total death of any hope the Iraqi people have in the US in turning there country around. Wouldn't you agree?

[M.Dancer]

I could not agree with you more, but even you have to agree allowing Turkey to essentially invade Iraq would be just about the total death of any hope the Iraqi people have in the US in turning there country around. Wouldn't you agree?

Ummmm...maybe. They could simply be post hoc members of the coalition of the willing?

I think the concept of a united Iraq has been dead from well before the US invasion. Iraq lost defacto sovereignty of the Kurdish regions soon after the Gulf War. Once the kurdish civil war ended, the kurds wwere self governing in almost every aspect. While the kurdish security wore iraqi uniforms and they used iraqi currency, there was no input from Baghdad.

If the Kurds can't control the Terrorists and the US can't, who then? Whether this action against Kurds upsets the Shia is another story.

[moderateamericain]

Ummmm...maybe. They could simply be post hoc members of the coalition of the willing?

I think the concept of a united Iraq has been dead from well before the US invasion. Iraq lost defacto sovereignty of the Kurdish regions soon after the Gulf War. Once the kurdish civil war ended, the kurds wwere self governing in almost every aspect. While the kurdish security wore iraqi uniforms and they used iraqi currency, there was no input from Baghdad.

If the Kurds can't control the Terrorists and the US can't, who then? Whether this action against Kurds upsets the Shia is another story.

Well you have a point there, but the thing that concerns me is the look away while turkey runs them over. Which sure as you or I were born they will do. They don't exactly have a track record when it comes to dealing with cultures they are REALLY pissed at. Like I stated before I would not want to have another Armenian genocide. Even you have to be slightly concerned about how the Turks would handle it.

[M.Dancer]

Well you have a point there, but the thing that concerns me is the look away while turkey runs them over. Which sure as you or I were born they will do. They don't exactly have a track record when it comes to dealing with cultures they are REALLY pissed at. Like I stated before I would not want to have another Armenian genocide. Even you have to be slightly concerned about how the Turks would handle it.

There will be claims of war crimes even if there are no war crimes. That is a given. Also a given is that if someone doesn't curn the PKK, Turkey will be their target again.

[moderateamericain]

There will be claims of war crimes even if there are no war crimes. That is a given. Also a given is that if someone doesn't curn the PKK, Turkey will be their target again.

Yeah but even if we pacify both Iraq and Afghanistan it does not mean we might not have another 9/11. Besides Im not talking about Pretend war crimes. Im talking about the very real possibility of mass murder. Which the Turks have proven through out history that they have had the will to do. Now I am not saying do nothing at all. Thats not the solution, if it was there wouldnt be a PKK after 20+ years. What I am saying is that this has to be handled with a velvet glove instead of an Iron fist. We have alot at stake here. If we allow the turks in, we may gain an ally for the next 20 or 30 years but at the cost of alot of innocent kurds lives. I guess the question is, at what cost in lives is acceptable before we gotta say "Thats enough Turkey?" I'm not squirmy about innocent deaths per say but even the biggest war advocate would not wanna see mass genocide.

Edited October 15, 2007 by moderateamericain

[M.Dancer]

Yeah but even if we pacify both Iraq and Afghanistan it does not mean we might not have another 9/11. Besides Im not talking about Pretend war crimes. Im talking about the very real possibility of mass murder. Which the Turks have proven through out history that they have had the will to do. Now I am not saying do nothing at all. Thats not the solution, if it was there wouldnt be a PKK after 20+ years. What I am saying is that this has to be handled with a velvet glove instead of an Iron fist. We have alot at stake here. If we allow the turks in, we may gain an ally for the next 20 or 30 years but at the cost of alot of innocent kurds lives. I guess the question is, at what cost in lives is acceptable before we gotta say "Thats enough Turkey?" I'm not squirmy about innocent deaths per say but even the biggest war advocate would not wanna see mass genocide.

You realize that the Armenian genocide happened under a differnt , imperial Turkey?

I am not overly worried that Turkey will go beyond what is justified, and that is to destroy the PKK base of operations.

[moderateamericain]

You realize that the Armenian genocide happened under a differnt , imperial Turkey?

I am not overly worried that Turkey will go beyond what is justified, and that is to destroy the PKK base of operations.

Yes i realize that but its within recent memory. Im sure theres some very old turks that probably still remember it. And more importantly passed on to there children how they destroyed the evil Armenians. etc etc. Well, I guess time will tell on this.

[M.Dancer]

Yes i realize that but its within recent memory. Im sure theres some very old turks that probably still remember it. And more importantly passed on to there children how they destroyed the evil Armenians. etc etc. Well, I guess time will tell on this.

Well, if they were 10 at the time they would be 100 now.

[jdobbin]

The level of concern just jumped today.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21399932/

Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan called crisis talks that may authorize a cross-border military offensive after Kurdish rebels killed at least 12 Turkish soldiers in an ambush on Sunday near the Iraqi border.

The attack, one of the worst in more than a decade by rebels of the outlawed Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK), came four days after the Ankara parliament backed a motion allowing troops to enter northern Iraq to fight guerrillas hiding there.

“We are very angry... Our parliament has granted us the authority to act and within this framework we will do whatever has to be done,” Erdogan said at an Istanbul polling station after voting in Sunday’s referendum on constitutional changes.