The Polls are Closed

[CLRV]

Wha? What makes Tory Americanesque?

I should more specifically say Republicanesque.

Look at their platform. Law and order. Immigration. Taxes-taxes-taxes. Knitting together small pockets of disaffected outsiders -- gun nuts, religious fundamentalists, fag-haters -- in an attempt to cobble together a voting majority. It's a tried-and-true strategy that's served the Reps well in recent times and is only now being discredited by inevitable, abysmal, disasterous consequences. Americans will be picking up the pieces on this for years.

But we Canadians are a perverse bunch. We do love to do stuff just because the Americans aren't doing it and vice versa. That's why I thought Tory stood a chance for a while there. It would be just like us to vote for all that garbage just when the Americans are finally getting how destructive it has been for them.

Fortunately, I was worrying too much.

[CLRV]

It is hypocritical to talk about broken promises?

Coming from the Conservatives it certainly is.

[M.Dancer]

I should more specifically say Republicanesque.

Look at their platform. Law and order. Immigration. Taxes-taxes-taxes. Knitting together small pockets of disaffected outsiders -- gun nuts, religious fundamentalists, fag-haters -- in an attempt to cobble together a voting majority. .

I think you will find Tory's platform had zero content regarding immigration, gun control, gay anything......

He did promise more crown attorneys to deal with the back log of court cases and he may have mentioned taxes.

Aside from that I think you are off base by 1000 meteres.

[capricorn]

I have to say I'm happier with this morning's election headlines than I ever felt I would be. Not that I'm a Liberal supporter by any stretch, but it was quite a pleasure to see the Cons and their American-esque leader go down in flames yet again, relegated to second place for another four years to gnash their teeth and spew hypocrisy about "broken promises". Sucks to be them.

Of course, the sour grapes gang in the mainstream media are falling all over themselves trying to explain it away on one issue: the religious schools thing. If only John Tory hadn't gone there, they say, the rest of his entire platform of conservative talking points lifted directly from south of the border (where they have been proven unquestionable failures all), it would have been handshakes and buns all around for the Conservative party this morning.

Fat chance. Ontarians walked away in droves; if not to the Liberals then to the NDP and Green (proving once again that even with a thrice-divided left, the newly "united right" hasn't got a prayer among thinking, decent Canadians. The fact is that in Canada, the left is the huge majority. Deal with it.

More proof? We also threw out that ridiculous Americanization of our electoral process euphemistically called MMP even more vigorously. Phew. What a trap for the unwary that was. Just like re-arranging the ridings a few years back; another attempt to rearrange the goalposts at halftime; a sad Conservative grasp at a chance for power in a country where most people won't vote for them.

I hope Mr. Harper, who recently challenged the Opposition to "bring it on" in a no-confidence vote, is taking notes. Reading the press today, I doubt he is as cocky about the guaranteed success of his "stay-the-course/support-the-troops" crapola as he was yesterday.

God Bless Ontario and Canada.

Wow, I see you're quite elated over McGuinty's resounding success. I give McGuinty 12 months and elation will turn to deflation.

[CLRV]

I think you will find Tory's platform had zero content regarding immigration,

Well, it's always a habit of mine to check before making statements. You should try it. In this case, one glance at his platform says it.

On welcoming skilled immigrants. Good immigrants. Not the bad ones, the refugess and such.

gun control,

Not unless you note that their plan for dealing the skyrocketing gang homocides includes focus on drugs, grow ops, street youth and white collar crime (?!). In other words, everything BUT controlling the guns the gang-bangers are blowing each other away with.link. In such a case "nothing about gun control" is a conspicuous absence.

he may have mentioned taxes

Uh, yeah. He MAY have.

"Fairness for taxpayers",

"Fair property taxes"

"Truth in taxes"

Like I said, taxes-taxes-taxes.

But apart from all that, I'm way off...

Edited October 11, 2007 by CLRV

[CLRV]

Wow, I see you're quite elated over McGuinty's resounding success. I give McGuinty 12 months and elation will turn to deflation.

I have no love for Dalton McGuinty or his party.

I'm just elated that things didn't go from bad to worse, as they surely would under a PC government.

[kengs333]

McGuinty really seems to be letting it get to his head. Last night he was first to make his speech, and this morning he was at times a little too conceited.

[guyser]

Coming from the Conservatives it certainly is.

Well you have lost me.

Maybe you are one of the "oh noes...Walkerton" crowd?

Failing that, how were the Ont PC's hypocrites?

[CLRV]

Maybe you're one of those "ho-hum Walkerton" types? In which case, I won't waste my breath.

[guyser]

Maybe you're one of those "ho-hum Walkerton" types? In which case, I won't waste my breath.

Ho hum? Nope not at all. I found it tragic and criminal. Anytime a drunk is put in charge of a PUC who falsifies records , lies to authorities, continues to lie in the face of people dying I find it tragic.

OF course you read the "failing that" partof my post. So....whats so hypocritical about the PC's provincially?

[CLRV]

It doesn't take much effort to find examples of the last PC Ontario government being accused of "broken promises". Here's one. Here's another.

The the current incarnation of the federal Conservative party was FOUNDED on a broken promise.

It is disingenious and dishonest to feign outrage at broken election promises. There has never been, nor will there ever be, a politician who makes good on every promise made during an election campaign. To try and act like this is somehow a new thing or peculiar to only one party is outrageously hypocritical. To imply that somehow YOUR government, if elected, would be the first to avoid this political reality is an insult to the intelligence of the electorate.

Edited October 11, 2007 by CLRV

[guyser]

It doesn't take much effort to find examples of the last PC Ontario government being accused of "broken promises". Here's one. Here's another.

Yes those are two broken promises. Hardly the stuff of hypocrisy as you point out below, election promises are not kept all the time.

But what you are failing to account for is that Dalton broke 50 election platform promises. He set a new record. Failing to acknowledge that is being dishonest.

http://www.paymoregetless.ca/brokenpromises/

The the current incarnation of the federal Conservative party was FOUNDED on a broken promise.

There is your problem. We are talking provincial, not federal.

It is disingenious and dishonest to feign outrage at broken election promises. There has never been, nor will there ever be, a politician who makes good on every promise made during an election campaign. To try and act like this is somehow a new thing or peculiar to only one party is outrageously hypocritical. To imply that somehow YOUR government, if elected, would be the first to avoid this political reality is an insult to the intelligence of the electorate.

Thats true.

So why then are you calling hypocrite to a party, that being Harris and PC's of the time, that for the most part did what they said they would?

By any measure Dalton has set new records for the breaking of promises.

Edited October 12, 2007 by guyser

[CLRV]

I included the federal politics to demonstrate that broken promises take place all over the political scene -- trying to hammer home the point that self-serving focus on SOME broken promises while gleefully ignoring others (or downplaying them as you just did above) doesn't inspire credulity or respect.

As for that "top fifty" list, it gives no context in which these "promises" were made and some of them are just too amorphous to BE promises. "Make sure health dollars are being spent wisely"? "Stop the waste of taxpayers' dollars"? Wisely according to whom? Waste according to whom? Somebody is always going to question how health or tax dollars are spent. So all you have to do is say "that's not wise" and it's a broken promise?

Trumped-up nonsense. The electorate didn't fall for it. Better luck next time.

[guyser]

I included the federal politics to demonstrate that broken promises take place all over the political scene -- trying to hammer home the point that self-serving focus on SOME broken promises while gleefully ignoring others (or downplaying them as you just did above) doesn't inspire credulity or respect.

Its your respect and credulity that is lost. I am not downplaying a thing. Harris made promises and for the most part kept them. I am not about to give him a free pass on anything. He did things that were not right for this province and I voted for him. I also voted Ernie out and Dalton in, hoping that things would be better in some areas. How disillusioned I became when he broke virtually every promise he made. If you dont agree, too bad , because it is all there and is in fact what he did.

The fed PC's have noithing to do with this.

Politicians lie, we both agree on that. To what magnitude is the problem and frankly I am shocked one cant see that by any barometer used , Mcguinty tops 'em all.

Trumped-up nonsense. The electorate didn't fall for it. Better luck next time.

The only trumping going on is the belief that Dalton was outshined in the lie dept by the PC's.

If the electorate was not subject to an disaster of a campaign by Tory and his insistence on funding schools, things should have been different. A win..?...cant really say, but certianly a reversal of a landslide.

Edited October 12, 2007 by guyser

[CLRV]

It wasn't "funding schools" that was the problem. It was the "faith based" aspect -- another failed American concept -- that people balked at. Just like Harper's anti-drug hype and stubborn refusal to consider bringing the troops home will come back to surprise him with a bite on the ass in due course.

Federal and provincial politics aren't as separate as you seem to think. People and policies cross over all the time.

Edited October 12, 2007 by CLRV

[mikedavid00]

There has never been, nor will there ever be, a politician who makes good on every promise made during an election campaign.

Mike Harris.

[mikedavid00]

Its your respect and credulity that is lost. I am not downplaying a thing. Harris made promises and for the most part kept them. I am not about to give him a free pass on anything. He did things that were not right for this province and I voted for him. I also voted Ernie out and Dalton in, hoping that things would be better in some areas. How disillusioned I became when he broke virtually every promise he made. If you dont agree, too bad , because it is all there and is in fact what he did.

The fed PC's have noithing to do with this.

Politicians lie, we both agree on that. To what magnitude is the problem and frankly I am shocked one cant see that by any barometer used , Mcguinty tops 'em all.

The only trumping going on is the belief that Dalton was outshined in the lie dept by the PC's.

If the electorate was not subject to an disaster of a campaign by Tory and his insistence on funding schools, things should have been different. A win..?...cant really say, but certianly a reversal of a landslide.

Yeah but just becuase a politician lies, it doesn't mean that he's necessarily destructive for the province.

Harris decided to CLOSE hospitals and lay off nurses despite mass, mass yearly immigration.

It doesn't take a brain surgen to figure that one out (no pun intended).

Then he sold the 407 which was meant to be a public highway.

So lets see. Public tax dollars built a highway that gold sold privately for profit.

Gee.. i didn't know the gov't was elected to be in the real estate business.

[jbg]

This might rankle, but it one of the reasons I was so against faith-based schools. Put them all in the same classroom flirting with ech other and things start to change fast

A rare agreement. Should we find a way, with my lousy singing voice, to perform, in "perfect harmony" "I'd Like to Teach the World to Sing"?

[jbg]

Wha? What makes Tory Americanesque? No american That I can think of could be that inept and still lead a major party.....he made Kerry look positively Macheivellian

George McGovern. Though not party leader POTUS candidate is our equivalent position.

The McGovern campaign was plagued with foulups, some comic like the $1000 DemoGrants and some tragic like the ousting of Eagleton.

[jbg]

Look at their platform. Law and order. Immigration. Taxes-taxes-taxes. Knitting together small pockets of disaffected outsiders -- gun nuts, religious fundamentalists, fag-haters -- in an attempt to cobble together a voting majority. It's a tried-and-true strategy that's served the Reps well in recent times and is only now being discredited by inevitable, abysmal, disasterous consequences. Americans will be picking up the pieces on this for years.

One campaign, in 1968, Nixon's campaign, and his 1972 re-election campaign were as you described. Your post is an ignorant distortion of American campaigns.

Nixon has the dubious honor of being the only President forced to resign. Americaneque indeed. Cut out your silly insults.

[M.Dancer]

Well, it's always a habit of mine to check before making statements. You should try it. In this case, one glance at his platform says it.

Thenonlyu thing i could find was a deadlink that read

Welcoming skilled immigrants

Boy, that sounds scarey!!!!

And given that you called MMP an american system I sincerly doubt you check before making statements.....

Edited October 12, 2007 by M.Dancer

[CLRV]

Don't know what you think a "deadlink" is. All the links I provided go right to their places within the pdf file.

Perhaps you should talk to this jbg fellow. In his world, Republicans don't talk about guns, Christianity, immigrants or taxes either. The "b" must stand for "Bizzarro". You were both made for each other.

[M.Dancer]

Don't know what you think a "deadlink" is.

A deadlink is a blank page

http://www.johntory.ca/documents/Plan_for_...060907.pdf#pg42

[M.Dancer]

And since you claim top check before making statements....

Check this........

More proof? We also threw out that ridiculous Americanization of our electoral process euphemistically called MMP even more vigorously.

Specifically, what is American about MMP?

[CLRV]

The link you provide comes up just as sure as mine do.

Edited October 12, 2007 by CLRV