RCMP officer shot to death in NWT

[geoffrey]

Some tradegic news from up North from yesterday:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...y/National/home

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national...d9-3be2ee16e6c4

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national...b2-839c2b56f0e4

Seems like the RCMP officer was shot responding to what the CBC described last night as a domestic dispute. It also seems like he was shot when working alone.

It's obviously a very sad time for the young man's family, but it's also a time when we have to revisit our current policing funding and policy. Why was someone responding to a potentially violent situation alone in the middle of the night? Is that normal procedure? Were they short on officers over a long weekend? Are they always short on officers? Is the funding in place for them to get officers and the RCMP's recruiting practices just not working?

I struggle to come to grasp with the lack of police officers situation. In Alberta (and likely all other provinces), we have a ton of cops sitting behind radar units all day long. Could these officers not better be used in assisting people responding to violent events like this?

Perhaps the police numbers are sufficent, and the government's policy of cash (speed traps) over safety (two officers responding to violent calls) is making things unacceptably dangerous?

[Wilber]

We'll have to wait and see what happened in this case but in case you haven't noticed, most police departments in this country operate single officer cars, not just the RCMP and it is a question of economics. People don't want to pay for them. It's the only way departments can keep enough cars on the road. This makes backing each other up doubly important so the next time you think you see a cop needlessly speeding, there is a good chance that he is on his way to back up another officer. Should he use his siren and lights with everyone pulling over for him or just get there as quick as he can? Judgment call. The traffic component is quite a small part of our police department and you won't get stopped for a traffic violation by a patrol officer unless it is something blatant because he just doesn't have time for that stuff. They don't even have radar.

It is hard to get recruits. They have plenty of applications but few who meet their standards when it comes to education and life experience or don't pass the background checks. On average it takes 6 months of screening and testing before someone is accepted for training. They don't take kids and mold them anymore, they want people who have already shown that they can function successfully in the real world. Most trainees are in their early thirties.

You might not like it Geoffrey but the police are responsible for trying to keep roads safe to drive on. Don't blame them, there is no one else doing it. You complain about the leveling of fines as a deterrent, what other means would you suggest in place of them?

[geoffrey]

We'll have to wait and see what happened in this case but in case you haven't noticed, most police departments in this country operate single officer cars, not just the RCMP and it is a question of economics. People don't want to pay for them. It's the only way departments can keep enough cars on the road.

If that's the case, we need to invest more money into our police forces. It's unacceptable if cost cutting is costing lives.

It is hard to get recruits. They have plenty of applications but few who meet their standards when it comes to education and life experience or don't pass the background checks. On average it takes 6 months of screening and testing before someone is accepted for training. They don't take kids and mold them anymore, they want people who have already shown that they can function successfully in the real world. Most trainees are in their early thirties.

I was offered a spot in Regina a year back, the recruiting officer told me I'd likely be the youngest recruit in the last 5 years (I also scored ridiculously high on the RPAB test, they fast tracked the process and I had the training offer in just over 3 months). I turned it down in order to finish school prior to joining up. I'm not convinced of trying it again.

The money is terrible initially (I'd be joining with a long term goal of being involved in corporate crime investigations, my degree once complete this year will be in accounting). 3 years of work at a most likely rural, middle of nowhere detachment doesn't seem fun to me.

That said, it may still happen. I'm frustrated with the desk job concept and I think there wouldn't be much more exciting out there. We'll see. I don't see them making much of an appeal to people like me however. The early twenties university grads don't seem to draw much interest. It's a real shame. That's probably their strongest pool of candidates.

I know the CPS (Calgary Police) puts alot of money into recruiting this demographic. Unfortunately, the scope of fraud and commercial crime work at the city level is too limited for me to consider as a career.

Incidents like this also turn me off. I'm unsure how committed the upper levels of government are committed to officer safety when they don't put forth the resources to, for example, have two to a car at night or responding to violent situations.

You might not like it Geoffrey but the police are responsible for trying to keep roads safe to drive on. Don't blame them, there is no one else doing it. You complain about the leveling of fines as a deterrent, what other means would you suggest in place of them?

Wilber, I have no issue with any of the individuals with the RCMP or whatever police force that are doing their jobs out on the highway. They get assigned to pull people over and write tickets, that's what they have to do. I'm questioning this as a policy choice by governments. Since there is little evidence of increased enforcement reducing collisions (or even speeding), maybe it's best for the officers that risk their lives everyday to have a partner in the car rather than have one shooting radar and the other answering emergency calls.

I'm simply suggesting that we have a limited number of officers. I'd rather see two to a car than more speed enforcement, and it appears that this is an actual choice that policy makers are faced with.

Edited October 8, 2007 by geoffrey

[Wilber]

Link

The VPD also needs about 100 recruits next year just to maintain the status quo and there is an Olympics coming. They are working without a contract and can't even get the city to agree on how to start negotiations.

My son is a 4 yr member of the APD. He takes every course he can get to improve his qualifications and pay level, paying for some of them out of his own pocket. They have been working without a contract for 18 months, haven't been able to start negotiations and can't legally strike. The municipal workers went on strike last year and my kid's base hourly rate is now about the same as the guy who cuts the grass in municipal parks.

For the people who love to bash the police I say put a sock in it. You are getting far more than you are paying for.

As far as traffic enforcement goes, what would you suggest, no enforcement at all? Maybe the police shouldn't be doing it and they should find someone else. After all, about the only time a law abiding citizen has contact with police is either through being stopped for a traffic violation or when they are the victim of a crime. I'm sure most cops would rather spend their time dealing with the latter. The reason most of them went into it is to help people and make a difference in the community.

[geoffrey]

The VPD also needs about 100 recruits next year just to maintain the status quo and there is an Olympics coming. They are working without a contract and can't even get the city to agree on how to start negotiations.

This is the case, from what I can see, at every police department across the country. I'm telling you, they target the wrong demographics with their advertising. At university career fairs you get all your major industry players, the government and the military has a huge presence.

I've never seen a police booth, CPS or RCMP at any University of Calgary career fair.

They seem so disinterested in hiring young university grads. And I can't really seem to think of why. If they only want 30+ people, they are going to have a hell of time ever finding half the people they need.

The municipal workers went on strike last year and my kid's base hourly rate is now about the same as the guy who cuts the grass in municipal parks.

Until that injustice changes, the police forces will continue to have issues with hiring. In Calgary, municiple workers start about $20 an hour. The RCMP starting pay is about the same.

For the people who love to bash the police I say put a sock in it. You are getting far more than you are paying for.

Citizens do have to question the priorities and policies of police departments though. If police are underpaid (they are) that's an issue. If police are enforcing traffic instead of having two to a car in high risk situations, that's a major issue.

It's not bashing police to say I want less traffic enforcement, I'm concerned for their safety. If the choice is between a speed trap and a partner responding to a dangerous situation, it shouldn't be a tough choice. It seems like cities have decided for the speed traps over officer safety.

As far as traffic enforcement goes, what would you suggest, no enforcement at all? Maybe the police shouldn't be doing it and they should find someone else. After all, about the only time a law abiding citizen has contact with police is either through being stopped for a traffic violation or when they are the victim of a crime. I'm sure most cops would rather spend their time dealing with the latter. The reason most of them went into it is to help people and make a difference in the community.

In Alberta, the provincial government considered this exact dilemma. They looked at the Sheriff system and realised that these guys don't do very much most of the time, and that they can recruit lesser qualified people quite easily for these roles. Then they stuck them out on the highway to enforce traffic violations.

This freed up every officer in the RCMP in rural areas from traffic enforcement duties, so they can focus on officer safety and community policing.

Perhaps it's time to do this in the cities as well.

Mind you, I do find the level of professionalism of the Sheriffs not quite the same, and their courtroom ability is zero (like I said, I had a ticket from them tossed quite easily). It's a trade off. I'd rather have less professional Sheriffs on the highway and RCMP working in the community than the alternatives however.

Edited October 8, 2007 by geoffrey

[old_bold&cold]

I am no fan of the RCMP or their tactics, but this guy was shot in the line of duty and part of that duty was the fact that the job was dangerous and yes death on the job should be something that is embedded into anyone who takes the uniform. I give my condolenses to his family. But I also must ask or more to the point look at the RCMP themselves for not having two man cars especially in these type of areas. Or at least have two cars responding so they get there near the same time. Money is one thing, but preventable loss of life is another, even though this was known and accepted by the officer.

[Wilber]

I am no fan of the RCMP or their tactics, but this guy was shot in the line of duty and part of that duty was the fact that the job was dangerous and yes death on the job should be something that is embedded into anyone who takes the uniform. I give my condolenses to his family. But I also must ask or more to the point look at the RCMP themselves for not having two man cars especially in these type of areas. Or at least have two cars responding so they get there near the same time. Money is one thing, but preventable loss of life is another, even though this was known and accepted by the officer.

They normally do back each other up quite quickly, we will have to wait for the details on this one.

I don't know about the NWT because it is a federal jurisdiction but in municipalities where the RCMP is contracted to do the policing, those municipalities get what they are willing to pay for providing the RCMP can provide enough officers. Municipal policing does not come out of the federal coffers, most of it comes from the local taxpayers and most of them aren't willing to put up with tax increases if they are not personally effected by crime.

[geoffrey]

Even if they are willing to put up the cash, thats no guarntee of officers. Rural Alberta is short a few hundred officers from what they have the cash for.

There simply isn't enough new people joining the police forces. They need to do something to remedy this. Perhaps this is the core issue at hand.

[old_bold&cold]

I think that if it s just a manpower thing maybe community volunteers could ride with each car and lend a hand where needed. Of course there would have to be some guidelines set, but some times a civilian can may diffuse the situation some, and act as back up in other cases. This would also give better links from the police to the community. Whether it would have stopped this death or created two though is something that would need taking into account.

[Wilber]

Nice thought but in reality you just make the cop responsible for the volunteer. The volunteer gets hurt and you get one guess as to who gets dumped on.

[geoffrey]

I think that if it s just a manpower thing maybe community volunteers could ride with each car and lend a hand where needed.

I agree with Wilber's assessment, sounds like it would just create more trouble.

Realistically, I think the cash is there for the RCMP in particular, cities I'm not sure. The Globe and Mail published a story last week that the RCMP didn't meet their recruiting target. So perhaps it's not cash. I honestly think they are simply looking for the wrong people or rather focusing their efforts on the wrong crowd.

For municiple policing organizations, I'm not sure. I know in Calgary we have graduating classes of only a handful of officers. It's not cash here either, it's interested applications. I'm not sure if this is the case everywhere in Canada.

[fellowtraveller]

Having two cops in a car or a busload of cops would not necessarily mean this young man would still be alive.

Crazy people do stupid things.

[geoffrey]

Having two cops in a car or a busload of cops would not necessarily mean this young man would still be alive.

Crazy people do stupid things.

Your absolutely right. However, it's now being reported that the officer was not responding on his radio for an hour before backup was called. There is a real policy problem here, methinks.

[Wilber]

Your absolutely right. However, it's now being reported that the officer was not responding on his radio for an hour before backup was called. There is a real policy problem here, methinks.

If this was the case, it's completely unacceptable.

[geoffrey]

If this was the case, it's completely unacceptable.

They interviewed a guy that was listening to police radio on CBC today. That was his story. The truth will likely not come out until years later. We are still getting details of Mayerthorpe.

Here is a Globe story that makes a reference to the radio communications: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...y/National/home

--

I saw the speech by the member's wife today. Very sad. It's good to see that the community is behind her and the little girl.

[geoffrey]

Emrah Bulatci has surrendered to police:

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national...17-3d8256542e4f

I'm sure this time, he won't get bail, again.

His family has shown such disgusting arrogance. It's obvious that failed parents can lead their kids down the road towards drugs and eventually murder.

His father, Erdogan Bulatci, runs a barbershop on the town's main strip. When approached at his home this week, Erdogan Bulatci said he didn't know where his son was and hasn't talked to him for a long time.

"Even if I know, I won't call the cops," he said.

--

It also appears his list of previous convictions was longer than originally estimated:

Before the first-degree murder charge he is now facing, Bulatci had been charged with 25 criminal offences over three years in four Alberta towns. He was fined and served only intermittent jail time for crimes in St. Albert, Edmonton, High Level and Grande Prairie.

25 criminal offences in 3 years in 4 towns. When the hell was the justice system going to wake up and put this thug behind bars?

--

Also,

http://www.canada.com/edmontonjournal/news...d4-121014fe6828

"It is a big issue now with this ... guy running around loose," said one veteran officer, who spoke on condition of anonymity. "Our safety is already at risk with just one officer in a car, and then we have this guy out there who has already (allegedly) killed one police officer."

It appears that the police officers on the street don't agree with the one man to a car policy. It's time this changes. If it means pulling guys from divisions like traffic or something, then go for it. Officer safety needs to come before police department revenue. Or simply make the changes neccessary to attract more members, and fund those spots.

Quite simply, the police don't have the manpower to do their jobs if officers ride alone to dangerous calls.

[Wilber]

Saw the interview of his old man on the tube last night. Spoke volumes for the way his kid turned out. A real piece of work.

[jdobbin]

It is a relief that the man suspected of killing the RCMP officer has been taken into custody. I believe CIBC has a trust fund set up for wife and young child. Any branch will accept donations. I'll be making one tomorrow myself.

[Visionseeker]

It appears that the police officers on the street don't agree with the one man to a car policy. It's time this changes. If it means pulling guys from divisions like traffic or something, then go for it. Officer safety needs to come before police department revenue. Or simply make the changes neccessary to attract more members, and fund those spots.

Quite simply, the police don't have the manpower to do their jobs if officers ride alone to dangerous calls.

To be fair, police officers on the street don’t feel much safer with another officer riding shotgun. And there are reasonable arguments against a dualist approach to patrol. But I will say that rural detachments need to take a serious look at call response protocols and back-up policies.

An officer should never have to report to dispatch that they are entering a residence or pursuing a suspect without back-up being (at a minimum) on-route. Further, any call response should involve a second unit.

[geoffrey]

It is a relief that the man suspected of killing the RCMP officer has been taken into custody. I believe CIBC has a trust fund set up for wife and young child. Any branch will accept donations. I'll be making one tomorrow myself.

Me too, great idea.

But I will say that rural detachments need to take a serious look at call response protocols and back-up policies.

That's very clear. I think the RCMP, and perhaps some municiple forces really need to take a look at some policies. But it's hard to enforce such policies when you simply don't have the officer resources to deal with expanding police mandates and increased crime.

I really support all provinces adopting something along the lines Alberta's Sheriff program, to take police members out of traffic duty and putting them into the community. That way the province still makes it's ticket revenue (actually much more revenue having a dedicated highway patrol), pretends that the highways are safer (collisions and deaths are up even though tickets are exponentially higher...) but importantly, ensures that there is the best possible usage of a limited resource, their RCMP officers in rural detachments.