Melanie_

Leafless, I find your logic difficult to follow. Why is homosexuality pitted against heterosexuality? Do you really believe there can't be peaceful co-existance? You haven't presented any reason for why this can't happen, other than bigotry towards the gay community - I refuse to accept bigotry as a valid justification. The bottom line is, how two consenting adults find sexual gratification is just between them, as long as it causes no one else any harm. It shouldn't have any impact on their right to provide a loving stable home for a child.

Here's another dose of the logic of disengagement.... http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/dailydose/...l_date=20051009

What do you call constantly reinforcing heterosexuality? Is that not also indoctrinating one political viewpoint?

No, we don't have to believe people are born murderers or rapists just because we believe people are born gay. Sexuality and aggression are both natural instincts; however, how we express these instincts is a result of socialization. People who are socialized to think that violent actions are justified may become rapists and murderers. People who are born gay can be socialized to deny their nature and stay in the closet all their lives, but that doesn't change who they are; people who are not gay can be socialized to be bigoted and intolerant, or they can be socialized to respect those who are different from them.

Who wants to be normal, anyway??

B Max, I saw nothing predatory about the article you quoted. What is the problem with a more open, tolerant society? What is the problem with taking the stigma out of sexual orientation? Homosexuality has always existed, it isn't a lifestyle choice it is an inborn characteristic, and it doesn't harm you in the least.

There are entire societies based on a matriarchal structure, where children are raised by the mother and her sisters, aunts, cousins, etc, with the father being a more distant figure. "Normal" is in the eye of the beholder. I agree with Renegade; having a stable, loving, nurturing home, regardless of the gender of the parents, gives a child the best base to grow from.

Black Dog, he's not going to listen to reason. Just smile, nod your head, and move on.

Did I say it wasn't a record of history? No, I just said it was no more a record of OUR history than the writings of Ovid and Homer. I did not discredit the Bible as history, but I do question the literal interpretation of the writings of an ancient tribe trying to make sense of the universe, using the limited knowledge of their time.

What is the written word of our history? The Bible (which I assume you mean, but please correct me if I am wrong) is a book of gathered writings from nomadic tribes trying to find comfort when things they couldn't explain happened to them, and turning to the supernatural or spiritual for explanation. It is a history, certainly, of the traditions and beliefs held by a particular group of people at a particular time and place, and an account of the mythology of the time. Please don't misunderstand me when I use the word mythology, as I hold it in very high regard; mythology provides comfort, security, and a measure of order to society. But the Bible is not the written word of our history any more than the writings of Ovid or Homer are. I don't dispute that people can find value in reading it, just as people find insights when they read other books of philosophy or religion, but that doesn't make it the literal truth.

MB - Having read what you have posted over the last few days, I hesitated to even respond to this post, as you seem to be very set in your opinion and unlikely to consider differing viewpoints. I'll offer one anyway, in the spirit of informed discussion. The midterms will definitely be impacted by Katrina, but not in the way you have predicted. I don't think the Democrats as a national party are going to be disadvantaged by a mayor's and a governor's actions, even if they are held accountable for the majority of the problems in New Orleans (and I doubt they will be). The Republicans, however, will see damage to their party as a result of Bush's ineffectual response, delayed as it was by party priorities (the event in California). The FEMA response will be held up as an example of Bush's inability to pick the correct person to see a job done well. Bush and the Republicans will also be taken to task over the budget adjustments that saw money diverted from shoring up the levees to the Iraq war effort; the project had been underway for some time, but was brought to a virtual standstill when the federal money stopped coming. Even more unfortunate, in my opinion, is the fact that we are even beginning to shift the focus from the needs of the hundreds of thousands of people impacted by the storm, to the political ramifications of government action (or inaction, as the case may be).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Apparently a Fox news reporter asked Frank McKenna if Canada was trying to show up the American relief efforts by getting there first. http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/subscribe...p-3509351c.html

I don't think Intelligent Design belongs in a science curriculum, but it can be in a philosophy class - I like IMTs idea of a mandatory course on this - my 16 year old committed athiest would love the opportunity to discuss these topics in class. If you are going to present Intelligent Design, what else must also be presented alongside it? If we teach one abstract, mythological based theory, we must teach them all, with as much credence given to each. Lay out the points of ID, along with the Christian version of Creation, the Greek mythology version, heck, throw in Tolkien's version as well. Let them explore why humans have created so many different explanations for our origins. Giving kids the opportunity to really think things through and formulate their own convictions at this age is of just as much value to them as reading Hamlet or mastering trigonometry.

We send so many mixed messages to adolescents about sexuality - on the one hand, we idealistically try to preserve their innocence and extend the "adult in training" period far beyond other cultures. On the other hand, we surround them with images that subtly and overtly tell them that sex is the be all and end all that they should be striving towards, and if they aren't sexually active, they are missing out. Since their hormones agree with the second message, its not difficult to see that they would naturally lean this way. A 12 year old might be flattered that a grown man was interested in her, since she is just starting to figure out what it means to be a "woman". But I have to echo kimmy, "Where were the parents??? How does anyone allow their kid to be involved in this? Don't they realize that a 20 year old dating a 12 year old is a pedophile???" It doesn't matter if this 12 year old entered into the relationship willingly; she is too young to understand how this will impact everything she does for the rest of her life. Those who say, "Well, at least he married her" are missing the point - he is a child molester, and marrying her at 14 allows him to continue to be a child molester.

What happened here??

Training conditions have a lot to do with it as well, regardless of race or country of origin; Kenya's high altitude creates training conditions that serve the athletes well when they compete in lower altitudes - increased stamina, lung capacity, etc. Parental choice is of course a huge factor; if Walter Gretzky hadn't put skates on young Wayne when he was two years old, would he have developed the "natural talent" that he did? Its all about practice and developing muscle memory that looks instinctual. Are white Canadian boys naturally better hockey players, or is it part of our culture to lace up those skates early on and dream of the big leagues? I wonder if people in other countries think it is genetic here.

Lets not forget that other areas of the world are also struggling with similar catastrophes, and don't have the financial might of the US to help their people rebuild. http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/08/2...soon.deaths.ap/

Yikes! Being the wide eyed innocent that I am, I googled it, and am now suitably enlightened. Thanks!

Dear felonius teabag, Are you a larcenous Orange Pekoe? An illegal alien English Breakfast? A white collar criminal Earl Grey? Do you have the questionable morals of some of that "loose" tea we constantly read about?

That's why we have rulings from impartial NAFTA panels; petty bickering should have no bearing on respecting international trade agreements. We shouldn't have to pander to them for them to honour their commitments.

Mirror, you surprise me with this statement about women - seems out of character somehow, but as you say we really know very little about each other after all. Upon reflection, though, we don't have very many regular posters here that are obviously women (off the top of my head I can think of myself and 2 others). I don't really find very many people overly aggressive - opinionated perhaps, but that's what discussion forums are set up for. Most have a great sense of humour, so even when I disagree with them I can appreciate the personality behind the statement. Sir Spanky, whether or not people participate in these discussions isn't necessarily an indication of their interests in politics - the internet is just one forum for discussion. I'm sure many of us debate the same arguments over the water cooler or dinner table, and the people we debate with there are just as interested in the issues.

Just when I thought I'd been pretty quiet on the boards tonight....

We went to Minneapolis this summer, and on all the doors going in to the Mall of America is stated "no guns allowed in the Mall of America". It made me wonder, does that mean that guns are allowed everywhere else we went? Do people really think they need to bear arms to defend themselves at Valley Fair, or the Minnesota Zoo? Sure, the entrance fees were highway robbery.....

Someone help me here, I'm sure I'm doing this wrong but I'm not as computer literate as the rest of you. If I am infringing on copyright, can someone fix this for me? Anyway, this article discusses intelligent design as being not that intelligent at all. Worthy of a read! http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/subscribe...p-3464620c.html

Maybe I wasn't clear; we make a greater distinction between the culture of Ireland and Scotland (as an example) than between Middle Eastern cultures, or African cultures, or Islamic cultures, etc. I was being harsh, probably more as a reaction to another poster on this thread, not you. My apologies. (You seem to have gotten that more than once here for some reason.) But I stand by the argument that the Palestinians should not have been made into an obligation in the first place - they were displaced with no real plan for where they would end up, just the assumption that other Arab countries would accomodate them.