Clopin

I took the time to read the thread... skimmed over Charles farming and such. Not much has been said about the matter of world perception. I don't think we should overlook how other nations' perception of Canada affects how we feel about our national identity. Ask the average world citizen: Who is Elizabeth II? and what will they say? Queen of England. Be it an accurate description or not, that will be the most common answer. And to most, when they hear that the 'Queen of England' is also Canada's head of State, that brings with it the stigma of Canada not being fully autonomous. Even if we actually are. Preach all you want about education, the simpler notion will prevail. It's about emotion and symbolism... how we feel about the issue as opposed to a rational deduction as to which option is healthier for the country. Albeit, Monarchists make valid arguments... such as the political neutrality of our head of state, I still agree we will remain immature as a nation until we cut the royal umbilical cord.

I'm actually arguing for your side na85, making a point that the state plays a pivotal role in this.

You do realize you're encroaching on religious freedoms.. and resorting back to the state to enforce the restrictions on marriage... don't you?

Help me out here.. A man wants to take a second wife... what's stopping him other than the state?

Then so be it.. Which religion shall we adopt as a guide? Or should we just let all do what they please? Should we allow polygamy for those religions that permit it? Should we disallow Catholic divorce as Europe did in the past?

Well put, Melanie.

Ever had sex with a virgin and saw what happened? Have you not heard of women completely uncomfortable with sex? Do you think gay people have 'all that sex' because of the discomfort? Did black people reach equality by re-writing history? Any idea how long slavery has been around? and still is. Physics? square peg? round hole? you really are full of it. I fear it would only be a waste of time discussing this matter further with you. So good luck spreading your word.

Last I heard, they never went through with it... One of them joked that it would never work because the other guy hangs his wet socks in the shower. It seems even the most basic concepts are eluding you.

Had to write a couple of essays on the subject at university 4 years ago, one as a scientific report on cloning, the other on the ethics of it. Strangely enough, with all the reading I did, I didn't touch upon the subject of cloning to harvest organs in my report. I was too fascinated with the notion that living mammals can come into existence without the use of sperm. It still leaves me in wonder. Has there ever been anything so groundbreaking in biology? Or in the history of science? But I guess the notion of conception in a test tube was just as inconceivable 100 years ago... maybe it takes time to get used to it. Our lives are so short in the large scheme of things; we tend to be limited in our perspectives. As much as I find the risk of the bleakest scenarios unacceptable to me personally (deformed births, uncertain consequences involving human life)... the itch of "what if" will never go away. And I'd bet my life there are thousands of scientists out there who have that itch a thousand fold. And people willing to risk all to fund it. To the general population, it's about 'why should we do it'? To the scientifically oriented, it's too much to pass up on. This is the kind of stuff that drives scientists more than finding the cure for Aids and cancer. It has a unifying effect, fascinating physicists, chemists as much as they do geneticists. It has broader implications than 'improving life'. If you understand the true nature of scientific research, you'd resign yourself to the inevitability of cloning. The laws will be there to restrict (which I'm for), but as far as trying to stop it... that boat didn't just sail, it sank at the pier. All there needs to be is one autonomous jurisdiction anywhere in the world to loosen up the restrictions, and if any good comes out of it, others will NOT want to fall behind. Statistically speaking, that’s bound to happen. The idea of building a railway to the moon never took off, and the intended goal was achieved through different means. Cloning is already underway; it's not a hypothetical concept. The means are here... it's the goal we're not sure of. I agree with CndPatriot, that there is an element of fear because of the lack of knowledge. I hope people learn about the process before getting into the moral discussion. Even for those dead set against it for whatever reasons, I hope they take the time to learn what it is.

Did you get all that from the Real Women of Canada? Sounds like the mantra lives on. Too late for the tin foil it seems.

It's a good thing younger generations are more supportive of SSM. Indicative of where the 'bridged future' is heading.

I'll stand by your right to express your opinion Leafless, that's why we're here after all. But I'm tired of derogatory remarks that trash the country and add nothing to the discussion. A little respect for the land is not much to ask. I've lived in half a dozen countries, including the U.S. in which I have more family than I do here, and I've visited dozens more. This is a great nation we live in by any standard and with all its faults, of which no country in the world is exempt. Can we do better? Always. Are we heading to the dogs? Not in your life.

Those kinds of comments are completely unwarranted. You put the effort into presenting your views then decimate it by insulting the nation.

Don't recall any from TO. Watching rerun though (leg injury... slow night). Anyone catch the white wrist-band on Jack's right wrist? looked like he came into the debate right after hitting the gym, ready to kick some prime ministerial ass. heheh

Pretty sure there was one from Mississauga.