Shwa

I would be interested to know how you arrived at the sentencing values of 10 & 20 year sentences as fit punishment for a crime where a weapon (any weapon or just a gun?) was used.

"Another American bogeyman story?" No, of course not. It is just the impression that you do not understand the Canadian reality. You can't be blamed for that.

"Perhaps kimmy would be a better person to answer my question, thanks." Kimmy replied, "Well, in this thread..." Excellent reply Kimmy, I see that point of view perfectly. My enquiry was more along the lines of acknowledging 'genetic differences' and not about anyone's attempt to assign arbritary value to those differences. I appreciate your insight. Thanks!

"No, given the present dynamics in "gun control", your static position is moot." No, given the present status quo in requirements for legal concealment, my position is reasonable. "Fear is a great motivator....particularly after experiencing a robbery or assault" So are you advocating that the tail wag the dog then? The last thing this country needs is for laws to be created in reaction to someone's sense of victimization or "terrifying facts" that they hear in the sensationalizing portions of the mass media. "Somebody is buying all those guns, eh?" No kidding. Canada has always had a well armed citizenry, but mostly for practical uses like hunting or recreation. Or did you not know that? As wyly said, "our country is very safe as it is we don't need to go down any road that takes us closer to american society..." Amen to that!

"Why do people still believe in god(s) when scientific facts and theory shows no "god" in explaining everything." What "scientific facts and theory" are you talking about exactly?

"The verisimilitude of contrary or favorable conclusions cannot be determined." That's right, so there is no need to change the status quo for any reason. Surely advocating for any change is unreasonable and thus the discussion is, more or less, moot. And here is why: "I disagree....many private citizens are armed specifically because they are unable to thwart an assault for any number of reasons." Really? Do you have some insightful data on this or are you merely citing your opinion? Because the way I see it, your opinion can be boiled down to the point out that many private citizens live in fear. In which case not only would advocating for change lead be unreasonable it would be based on fear. So let's try and extend this a little further with a little Canadian test: We have a good idea of what the crime rate is and for the average reasonable person, their chances of being involved in a violent crime where their life is at severe risk are small, even rare. But crime rates count incidents that happen, most people ignore the other side of the percentage - the rate at which crime does not happen. And really, when you imagine the total sum of interactions between people of a given region and then count how many of those interactions are of a life risk violent crime, it is pretty safe to say that a person could - a reasonable person - could interact their daily lives without much fear of being involved in a life threatening violent act. I believe that most private citizens in this country interact their daily lives in this exact way. To act any other way is to act on an unreasonable fear. So advocating for a change to allow legal gun concealment is based on unreasonable fear - the unreasonable fear that some minority gangsta, bad teenager or other villain is going to attempt to murder you, to kill a loved one or bring fatal harm in some direct way. Most reasonable people I know tend to call this unreasonable fear "paranoia." Now that maybe a titch anecdotal for you, but you can test it here in Canada all on your own and draw your own conclusions. There are reasons for having guns, some people have better reasons than others and most have no reason at all outside of hunting or some other recreational use. And for the vast majority there is no need for concealing any guns at all. Which is why the laws are as they are I guess. For those that truly think they need a concealed gun, then before they even think of owing a gun or handgun they should not only take the requisite firearms course, but maybe try some therapy first to try and find the root of that unreasonable fear. It can't be nice living in your skin hiding away from the rest of the world because you think there is a chance that someone might want to murder you one day.

Mr. Canada wrote: "We need concealed carry licenses here in Canada. That would cut down on crime." Mr Bush Cheney 2004 wrote: "it is very difficult to parse the contribution from concealed carry." So now there is the best answer for Mr. Canada's statement now isn't it? The answer is difficult, if not impossible to parse, so there is no proof that legal gun concealment would cut down on crime in Canada. I asked for the comparative statistic from the US to Canada to illustrate on a general basis that since our violent crime rate is somewhat lower in Canada, that status quo is likely the best course for this issue. Thanks Mr Bush Cheney 2004! ps - and I think you are doing just fine with the grade 6 English, I understood it perfectly well. You should look to upgrading your grade level - there are many on-line resources to help you get a high school equivalency in English and it's not such a stigma anymore. Good luck!

Duu-uuh - Oz is not so similar in more important ways and that is they don't have the USA (which is not Canada by the way) immediately to their south. You know, the USA with the crips and the MS13 and the blackmarket guns, etc. Read Mr Bush Cheney 2004's response. His view almost completely opposes yours. I am going to go with his because he has the honesty to make a simple observation. Thanks! (and next time leave Oz out of things because no one cares about Oz unless they are taking a vacation there)

"Canada is not the USA" Let me guess: geography major right? Can you answer my question Mr. Bush Cheney 2004; do you have the comparative statistical data that we might tease out a small bit of wisdom in our efforts to determine weather legal gun concealment in Canada will actually lower crime rates? Here, let me restate the question for clarity: Does gun concealment in the US cut down on crime and how would that reduced violent crime rate compare with a similar statistic area in Canada? Thanks bud!

"the liberal <intellectuals> of course... the ministers of the new religion of Political Correctness." So are you telling me that a John Ralston Saul or David Suzuki would deny that there are genetic differences between peoples on the planet? That is patently absurd. Perhaps kimmy would be a better person to answer my question, thanks.

"Does gun concealment in the US cut down on crime?" "well theres the glaring Australian example that you incredibly avoided" Are you daft or something? I asked about the US and you go on about some irrelevant statistics from Oz? Who the heck gives a crap about Oz? And those Ozzy stats don't even answer my question in the first place about concealment! Good grief dude if you are going to say it is impossible to argue with me, at least man up and admit that it is because of your lacking and not mine. If you can't keep up, let us know and we'll type s-l-o-w-e-r f-o-r y-o-u.

"And if they don't turn out so great, oh well." No, the only reason they wouldn't turn out right is because of laziness because we are all provided the same opportunities.

"making 3 meals, cleaning up a house and minding kids is not equivalent to a real serious fulltime job" Not quite true. Because of the double household income requirements, daycare can be anywhere from $200.00 to $800.00 per child for the regular daytime hours. And of course extended hours cost extra as well as any extra services. So for some folks in the daycare industry, "minding the kids" is indeed a "serious fulltime job." And a vital one nowadays to boot. Interestingly, in some cities, the cost of daycare alone would exceed the $1450.00 welfare payment cited, although if we knew what city, we could make a more careful calculation about "minding the kids." And keep in mind that this daycare cost does not include overnightcare, doctors visits, etc.

I didn't ask if they have "lowest" crime rates, I asked if concealment ~cut down~ crime rates? Do you have the data for that? And, while we are at it - since we are talking crime rates in Canada - how would that reduced violent crime rate compare with a similar statistic area in Canada?

"Everybody is afforded the same opportunities in life." And interestingly enough, we have welfare to try and provide a measure of guarantee for that ideal otherwise it is simply not true. You have made a profoundly ironic statement there. "There is no excuse besides laziness." Nope. Maybe "irony" isn't the word I was looking for. Simpletonery. Is that even a word? It is now...

"If the minority gangs knew that people could be packing legally they'd think twice about mugging someone or robbing a store. " Or maybe they wouldn't think twice about killing someone before a mugging or shooting the store owner before robbing the store. Does gun concealment in the US cut down on crime?

"So a lot of well-intentioned people will fight to the death to dispute the existence of any such genetic differences, no matter how slight." Who are these well-intentioned people?

"Once that is done, then we can look at those who live at or below the poverty level...." While we are thinking about corporate bailouts and agriculture incentives, let's not forget Old Age Security and the Canada Pension Pan for seniors. I mean, if those seniors weren't smart enough to get a nice lucrative pension from the corporation they were working hard for, nor wise enough to invest all the sure things over the years, why should I have to pay any of my hard working middle class tax dollars to send them all to Florida or sit around doing nothing all day in one of those fancy residences we pay for. No need to subsidize seniors. Let them live at home with their kids and THEY can take care of the babysitting, changing diapers, cutting the grass and shovelling snow. And if weren't smart enough to have kids then they can do it for all the other hard working middle class people out here. If they'd rather die, then they had better do it and decrease the surplus population. Because winter is coming and you know, are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses? :angry: Of course this reply is completely in jest as I am sure the original poster's was...

Seriously. What does a Kenyan runner's ability have to do with racism? There ARE genetic differences between peoples, but those different genetic traits do not add up to superiority or inferiority ~as a race.~ Unless you consider redheads to be a trait of the superior race in which case I am throwing my lot in with the Western Irish... Go Sligo Go!

If you bring Quebec into this discussion, you have to change the brand comparison from Coke to Pepsi. And don't forget Demi-Lunes. Je me souviens...

"Shwa, who invented the armed forces of the welfare/warfare state?" I dunno, but he was the greatest proponent of Socialism in my books. I mean, as a model, the US Armed Forces have Socialism down to a tee don't they? Everyone works, everyone gets educated or entertained, they have their own police, their own economic system, their own hospitals, their own indoctrination methods. Quite sophisticated actually, as Socialism goes...

Why are we there again?

""The title of the thread is "THE ENDS OF RELIGIOUS TOLERANCE", what I am deploring is the state of affairs which tolerates and even encourages attitudes such as that of the parents of Julianna Wetmore..." I don't think anyone is really avoiding your main point, but have amply voided your conclusion by proving your premises to be false or untenable. Didn't you know people debate and argue like that? As for any eugenics comments, Melanie put that one to rest a few pages ago. Thanks Melanie!

"how is mein kampf like an old christian jewbook? explain... " Well wasn't Hitler an old Christian-Jew? And he wrote a book...

"what a hatefully smug nonsense comment." Nice try, but I think you have misread Merriam-Webster: " a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race" key phrase: "inherent superiority of a particular race"