G Huxley

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/may/28/woolwich-murder-200-islamophobic-incidences

No, but if a Muslim country (not a handful of individuals) actually attacked it would be fair to retaliate against those responsible.

You realize that the British used that same type of propaganda to justify their colonization of the Indian subcontinent right? Look some Indian widows are jumping in bonfires so we have the right to conquer, 'civilize,' and rule over the savages. History moves at such a snail's pace, because people ignore it and just keep on repeating the same old tired cycle of arrogance, violence, hubris, drama etc. etc.

Yes, because that's what all Muslims do. And all Canadians are cannibals who sacrifice babies on the altar of Baal. Let's be real here.

Indeed, but as such being the military, they are a military target. I won't disagree with that. Very much like it must feel to be living in the Muslim world and being the target of western aggression. Let's talk about legitimate targets. The Obama admin signed off on targeting funerals and rescuers with drone attacks. Those are international war crimes. There is no higher ground here. So its fine to invade their country and 'send their asses to hell' then you are shocked when they fight back in a manner different than getting lined up and shot like it was the Napoleonic wars. As for the rest of your post ranting about the 'scumbags' you are invading and occupying, it is obvious that you disrespect the people, their culture and that you are openly belligerent and militant to them. If you're not welcomed with open armed hospitality, but instead hostility, what's the big surprise here really? Could it be that you're puffed up with arrogance, belligerence and bravado?

Only westerners have the arrogance that they consider it shocking that soldier gets attacked after declaring war on and attacking several countries. A soldier (especially one who served in Afghanistan) is actually a legitimate target in war believe it or not. The people who worship at the mosques were simply the target of bigotry and actual terrorism. In the end its just a language game. Anyone who has the gall to fight back from the Islamic world is called a terrorist. Any westerner who occupies invades and kills islamic peoples are branded heros. Its called propaganda. Its the same stuff that was used in the newspapers on the Native Americans to justify American expansion at their cost. Any time the natives successfully fought back it was branded a 'savage massacre,' everytime the west slaughtered natives or forced them from their homelands it was branded a 'heroic victory.'

As I said: "When its the Exact same as Kristalnacht its already too late. Things begin small and if they aren't controlled they get out of hand and snowball, then you have all on Kristalnacht domestically (abroad its already happened)." To say its nothing like what happened with the nazis you have to ignore that its far right neo-nazi and neo-nazi-like extremists and their ilk who are behind this. They are modern equivalents of the early SA and Freikorps.

The consequences of not invading were pretty slim. We've seen the consequences of invading now. That's basically the consequences Gertrude Bell's creation of Iraq. Bell comitted suicide as it fell apart. The only way an artificial entity like Iraq filled with disparate often antithetical peoples can really survive is with a strongman, which is why Saddam was backed by the west for years. I'm not saying it needs to be that way. I'm saying that's the consequences of the west creating the artificial state of Iraq, which was fundamentally going to fail based on its very design. It was created as it was because Churchill wanted Iraq's oil for the British Navy. Since it was a state created for oil, and enforced by violence, that has been its legacy. I think they'll give each other a shot The peoples of the region are fiercely independent, its in their tribal nature. If the tribes, ethnic groups etc. are left to their own devices, imo they would find a natural equilibrium, but because oil is involved they will never be left to their own natural devices. Afghanistan is a perfect case in point. In the mid 20th century prior to western intervention during the Cold War, it was a peaceful country, with the tribes acting in a natural equillibrium, and even a stable central government, as it found an equilibrium with the tribes.

As I've said before. When its the Exact same as Kristalnacht its already too late. Things begin small and if they aren't controlled they get out of hand and snowball, then you have all on Kristalnacht domestically (abroad its already happened).

BCSapper: The result of the U.S./UK destroying Iraq. They were warned in advanced the consequences of: A. Invading B. Disbanding the government and banning the former Baathists C. Disbanding the military/Police. They were clearly warned in advance that if that happened the country would be sent into chaos, and an ensuing power struggle would take place between the different ethnic/religious populations. The disbanded military/police were just going to go home jobless with the weapons and become insurgents and warlords.

Directly instigated no, the result of government military actions/human rights abuses abroad and the cycle of violence that creates yes.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/ten-attacks-on-mosques-since-woolwich-murder-8633594.html Kristalnacht towards Muslims in the UK.

Eyeball: Exactly.

Ah yes the noble imperialists. Argus stop choking on Kipling's dust. The ones that typically cry about Muslims killing people, are those who are just jealous their government is doing its share, and want to funnel as many weapons as possible to Muslims in the region so that they can go and kill each other. I consider Russia Western as in European imperialists. The Chinese are also in the imperial 'great game.' Or stupid game, whatever you want to call it since no one wins, and everyone loses. And the people who lose most are those who get the deepest into it.

American woman try reading the news sometime. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/12/world/asia/afghanistan-civilians-killed-american-soldier-held.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

I've been through 8 Islamic countries and I have told countless Islamic people that I'm an atheist in those countries. I've never been so much as threatened with arrest by it, and obviously I clearly wasn't executed.

Actually they were preceded by the Mongols, Seljuks, Abbasids, Byzantines, Persians, Romans, Greeks, Assyrians, Hittites, Babylonians, Egyptians etc. Ibn Khalidun noted this pattern in the Middle Ages. The next arrogant hubristic imperialists just continue along making the same dumb mistakes and then they get replaced by the next.

It has full relevance, not just to your topic, but to the topic of this thread. The Cycle of Violence is born of imperialism.

I think what we're getting at is that people are people. When you get one group of people trying to rule over another on whatever shady/questionable propagandistic claims of cultural superiority, its empire, apartheid and slavery, a recipe for violence, conflict and disaster.

American Women, as I already answered that response before: The 2nd world war happened, because of war mongers both in World War I and in World War 2. Those War Mongers have their equivalent today in the westerners who think it is their duty to invade and rule over the Middle East.

No we were talking about Islamic culture. That DOES apply to all Muslims. That's ironic, because that is EXACTLY what the West is doing. No, but like I said we have our own versions. Islamic people commit, torture, rape and murder, the curtailing of civil rights, wrongful imprisonment, our culture commits torture, rape and murder, the curtailing of civil rights and wrongful imprisonment. Just because the west does it in a sometimes allegedly secular manner doesn't make it any different.

Here is what I respect about peoples in the Islamic world. A: They are friendly B: They are extremely hospitable. C: They are human D: They succeed in a tough environment eeking out a survival with incredibly tough lives, but still feed their families at the end of the day and live in dignity. E: The world would be much the poorer without their culture, music, and traditions. F: Their architecture is fantastic. G: We wouldn't have a 0 and our modern mathematics without them. H: They have some of the most delicious food in the world I: They are family oriented J: Their culture has a high level of ethics built into it. K: Poetry from the Islamic world is beautiful. J: Their culture values sobriety L: I've felt much safer traveling in the Islamic world than in Europe where in fact at various times I have had a gun pulled on me, (Latvia), a knife pulled on me, (Russia) a hammer pulled on me, (Portugal), had 3 people try to pick pocket me in a 24 hour period (in Belgium), had a bottle thrown at my head by a drunk (in England).

That's the thing that's the only part of them you see. You are effectively blind to a billion people on the earth and their real lives, not just what the media microscope wants you to see. The west has killed hundreds of thousands of Islamic people and displaced millions for its imperial objectives, and tortured in the most hideous way thousands of Islamic people. In the 20th century alone Europe and the West killed tens of millions of people with its 'civilized culture.' . Since humans are closely related to chimpanzees it is not surprising that every culture has its own forms of cannibalism. I don't see an ounce of a difference between the two, but to claim that is the sole part of their culture is to claim that killing murder and torture is the sole part of North American and European culture. It would be false in both cases.

The final reason why the west can never succeed in its imperial visions for the Islamic world. A: It doesn't respect it, its people, or its culture. Your posts above are proof of that. When a people are disrespected and patronized, they resist. The definition of insanity is to repeat the same thing over and over expecting a different result despite all previous attempts being failures.

The 2nd world war happened, because of war mongers both in World War I and in World War 2. Those War Mongers have their equivalent today in the westerners who think it is their duty to invade and rule over the Middle East.