playfullfellow

Thanx August, politics is a nasty game of cover your own butt no matter who you are or your level of power. I may not agree with everything Harper has to say but I do think he wants to find out exactly what has been going on for 11 years. If Harper finds evidence of anymore scandals or wasted money, then he also keeps the NDP and BQ at bay for a while because they will not really want to look like they are backing a corrupt party. I am definately interested to see if Duceppes theory of the EI surplus being syphoned off goes anywhere. That would really piss me off if that money is gone.

psssssttttttttttttt, MS, didn't you notice I apologized for my un-called for personal attack or are you still pissed at me? Around here we acknowledge people when they appologize to be polite.

This is very correct willy, parents need to take responsibility to raise their kids. I know this is not always possible due to financial situations. We made the choice that my wife would stay at home with the kids for the first few years. The decision was for me to go to work because I could make a better income. Countries like Denmark and Sweden have had (still do) national daycare programs for years. These countries are or were socialist countries. The programs worked in the sense that it allowed both parents to work, earn money and pay taxes. By and large, it has been succesful because the Danes put a lot of time and money into creating the perfect enviroment for children. Of course this system is very costly and paid for by high taxes. I found this article interesting http://www.canadianparents.com/articles/feature04e.htm There are also drawbacks too from having your kids in daycare all the time. We have all read the articles pertaining to higher health risks associated with having a lot of kids in one place together. I also found this article pertaining to kids vocabulary nad the effect that daycare may have on it. http://www.denmarkemb.org/news/news_01_24_03.html In effect, we as parents still need to take responsibility for our kids and not just off-load them at the "sitters" so we can make more money. If we are to have any sort of national day-care program, then we definately need to do it right or we will screw-up our kids even more than we already have. Single parents and low income parents are an entirely different story. People struggling through these situations definately need our help to improve their lives. I also feel that such a program should not be free to everyone, the people who can afford it should pay for it. But we as parents should take responsibility for our kids and take a very active part in raising them to be responsible adults.

If there are more scandals, which I think there are, it won't really matter too much if they destroy the papers. With todays technology, it is way too easy to keep a copy for a rainy day. Be it a disgruntled employee, ex-lover of someone with a conscience, evidence will be released once the Liberals get booted. Because it looks like a minority government is going to happen, Harper will dig really deep to find any wrong doing he can to keep the Liberals in check. No scandal is ever truly buried, someone will keep copies to cover their own asses if the crap hits the fan.

ouch MS, you really hurt my feelings but I do appologize for the personal attack, guess I got out of the wrong side of bed this morning and I did not mean to insult you, we are just from very different views. As for the 10 year old crack, not at all called for and don't bother calling me right wing, it doesn't cut it here. I am more centrist than you figure and open to discussion. I read plenty about global warming and am concerned about it. I also care about abortion, rights and freedom of speech. You can include at the top of the list my family. As this is also an open forum, I am also allowed to voice my opinion whether you agree or not. This is a place for discussion. I have been to different places, seen different views and read plenty of material telling me about world problems and issues which affect us as a whole. The problem I have with some of your ideas are that you advocate one thing in a post like say chosing to abort a fetus and then in another post you denounce choice. Makes no sense to me. As for my opinion of Layton, you will also notice in other posts that I have commended him on his compassion for his parties beliefs. I just didn't like him very much in this debate and I think you saw a lot more than I did. But you do come across in the your admiration of Layton and I guess came across wrongly. You may also have noted in other posts that I stood up for you in your ablility to bring items in for discussion whether we agree or not. You also seem to come up with a lot of material to discuss and add lots of differing views to debates. I may not agree with your love fest with the NDP but that is your choice.

I agree with you here August that something has to be done to ensure we protect the enviroment. but is Kyoto the way to go? This deal is so stacked against us just because we are a have country. I do not think that we have yet looked at decent alternatives to our current energy uses. The Liberals stance seems to be that they agree to do whatever the world wants and we as a taxpayer will foot the bill no matter what the cost. The NDP are no better, maybe even worse because they seem to want to take it beyond Kyoto. What exactly is the current projected cost of Kyoto August? You seem to have an uncanny knack for finding all kinds of info that are very relevant to different topics. The road I am heading down is that I think this money can be used much more wisely than the current plan set in place by the Liberals, oh yeah, there is no plan aside from just wanting to throw tonnes of money at it. I also wonder if you have ever read any articles by Prof. Jim Ball? He is a climatologist who specializes in tracking weather statistics through the centuries, not just the decades. I will try to find some links to his works, he offers some very hard evidence to support his views.

Sheeesshhhh MS, do you have a blowup doll in the shape of Layton too by your bed? Policies aside, Layton looked and sounded like he was trying to sell you a lemon. That silly grin on his face was so detracting from his comments that I hardly noticed what he had to say. Mind you, our reception kept kicking in and out through most of the debate so I missed a lot of actual policy stuff but we can all read the party outlines. Layton has absolutely nothing to lose in this election so he can do pretty well anything he wants to aside from walking naked through downtown Vancouver but I am sure you would find a positive note in that too MS.

In Alberta, you are allowed to sell power back to the grid if you have excess power. Wind farms do this and so do biogenerated power systems. I am not sure of the hoops you have to jump through to do this but it is one incentive to bring in alternative power. Alberta's privatization of the power companies was basically a flop because the industry was not ready for the change over. Do I mind paying more for my power? Sure but it has also given me plenty of incentive to make my home power smart. Using power efficient appliances, power efficient bulbs and teaching our kids to be energy smart are ways of reducing our power cost. I would like to see every home have an alternative power source but it is yet too expensive to do so. I guess another way to look at is, if you got cheap power, what incentive do you have to become more efficient? None really aside from your conscience. You see more homes being built to be as energy efficient as possible now which in turn uses less power which reduces reliance on fossil fuels to produce that power. I do not feel the government should pay people to come up with alternative power sources until that source is a proven, viable product. The pay off should come from producing a good product that people will want and use. Demand based economy is the term I think. Whether private or crown corporations run the power supply, we end up paying the full cost of producing that power no matter what either through direct billing or through our taxes. If it is a private company, then there needs to be regualtions in place to protect power users because with our reliance on power, they have us by the short and curlies.

I think it is about time too. The Liberals have become too complacent as a whole over the past 11 years. Chretien would have won again no doubt, he is by far a better politcian than Martin. I do not like Chretien but I have to respect him because he had control of the party, Martin does not, just like Day did not have control over the Alliance. A defeat for the Liberals will be good for them so they can get back on track and pull their heads out of the clouds. Martins arrogance got him into trouble which is good. He has proven time and again that his word is one that can be broken at the drop of a hat. He had many good things to say during the leadership race but pfffffffffffffftttt, gone to the wind are all the democratic reforms he was talking about. I am sure Chretien is sitting back and enjoying the whole fiasco thinking "I told you so".

I wonder if any of us have a clear opinion of Canada anymore? I know how I would like to see Canada but that view does not always mesh with other peoples opinions.

That is one of the first times I have seen the word choice be used almost like a swear word. What a bunch of malarky MS, the NDP spouts off the word more often than anyone. As for the low percentage of women in the house also relates back to that hated word choice. If more women chose to run for government, then there would be more women mp's. We, as a modern society have largely gotten over the old habits of keeping women barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen to use a very old sexist remark. I value the view of women as they often have a different way of looking at things than men do. If my wife chose to run for office, all the power to her but in the end, it is her "choice" to do so. We also make decisions based on what is best for our family. I know that is an old fashioned way of doing things, making decidions based on what is best for the family but it works for us. MS, you enter many debates with a very closed mind. Left is good Right is evil in your worlds eye. So because I look at the world in a conservative way, I am wrong and you are right, no matter what. Re-read your posts and think logically about what you have written and try to figure out why people don't take your view seriously. This statement makes absolutely no sense at all. Democracy is majority rule, what Canada was built on. What you seem to be leaning towards is minority rule or akin to a dictatorship. Can you recite any dictatorships that were good for the country they were ruling? So if you want to see more women in government, encourage your lady friends to be involved in politics and let them chose (oooppppppssss, that is a right wing swear word) to do so. I guess if don't have any choices life would be easier having others tell us when and where to wipe our noses.

Sheesh, had a storm move through the area and took out the satellite signal for most of the debate. Only caught a little here and there. I really wish I would have seen more of it. The very little I did see showed Harper and Duceppe quite controlled and reflective in their responses. Layton had that goofy grin on his face which took away a lot from his responses. It was really hard to take him seriously. Martin looked like he using every ounce of will power to stay in control of his emotions and not show panic.Just because you are the loudest or most long winded does not mean you own a debate. Most fools speak before they think.

Martins main goal was to make the other leaders look worse than he is and ultimately he will fail because of his track record of broken promises and scandals. Layton, Harper and Duceppe are passionate about the parties policies, Martin is trying to buy votes. The Liberals have not stood for anything since Trudeau hence their wishy washy policies. Right or wrong, the other parties stand behind their policies. No doubt people will view Harper as the loser because his french is not as strong as the other leaders. Duceppe of course will come out the strongest which leaves the other 2 to the middle. I think the English debate will be a different ballgame all together. Layton and Harper will learn from their mistakes in the French debate but Martin will arrogantly believe he won and do the same again. I doubt this will win him any browny points in the West. Harper and Layton will outclass Martin in this debate, as long as Martin allows them to speak. And in all reality, the ROC of Canada is what will matter the most to Harper and Layton, this is where they have to make headway to defeat Martin.

Hjalmer, that was a good one.

Wind power has been proven as a reliable source of power in Europe for years. Now what kills more birds? Getting whacked with a blade or living in smog? Personally I think the birds would chose the blades, they have a chance there. Diversifying our reliance on fossil fuels is not a bad thing, especially since the technology is out there, we just have tweak it to become more affordable. Instead of giving tax dollars to companies that want to come up with alternatives and have them blow it on promotions and gimicks, award them money after they have proven themselves through lower taxes and such for "X" number of years? Sort of like a contest and then make the pay off worth while.

As a white European immigrant, I can understand the feeling of coming to Canada for a better life. We do have a better life in Canada because we have a freedom of choice here, more than a lot of other countries. We adjusted our lives to become Canadians and took up Canadian traditions. We still enjoy our European traditions at home and pass these traditions onto our kids as part of their heritage. Canada was built on a Christian foundation, but we have seen this being slowly eroded over the years, we can't even enjoy the true meaning of Christmas anymore, for the cause of multiculturism. I see no harm in expecting immigrants to intigrate into our society and adjust to the foundations this country was built on. If all immigrants can do whatever they want to, then why did I work my ass off to learn English and Canadian values? Because I am proud to be in Canada, my home. My home is not the country I left but I still have a part of that in my home. I believe in respecting other peoples ideas and values but I also expect the same in return. I do not get that from some cultures just because I am white and of a Christian background. People call you a bigot when you suggest limiting or stipulating the types of immigrants that may come this country but Canada also needs to look at who will benefit Canada. If we need doctors, we need to bring in doctors. If we have a surplus of computer techs, then why do we bring in more computer techs? All they do is end up at menial jobs getting paid a lot less than they would in their chosen profession. All they do is bitch then be they an immigrant or Canuck. We find that we have a large demand for labourers in this country now so why not bring in people who are skilled at building houses and using their hands? This is not discrimination but building the nation. I don't care what colour a person is, they could be purple for all I care as long they are able to add to Canada as a nation. As for stacking votes, well everybody does is it. It is a fact of life. I think this can be curtailed a lot by minimum membership times, say 3 months, this way people who help to build a party and do all the hard work can reap the benefits from their hard work. If you feel that you were wronged by a stacked vote, get all of your friends to help you the next election. Thats why we have them every few years.

Martins arrogance lead him call this election and he deserves the stress he is going through. During his leadership campaign, I actually liked what he had to say. I thought that he was a man to change some things and add to the democracy of this country. But he has proven time and again that he is no different than any of the other Liberal leaders we have had. Kiss butt, promise the world, get into to power and the do what ever the hell you feel like for the next 4-5 years. He is as much a dictator as Chretien was, Martin just tries to hide the fact that he is a dictator. He also figures that most Canadians are feeble minded sheep and he is the sheep herder. I hope he gets the boot so we can get a real look at what has been going on with the books and money of this country for the past 11 years. Debating wise, Martin is not as strong as either LAyton or Harper because he gets easily riled and then flies off the handle. He does a lot of finger pointing and expects answers right away but can not answer questions directed at him. Layton truly believes what he is speaking about, even though I do not agree with many of his policies, I have to admire him for that, he sticks to his beliefs. Harper also believes in his policies. He may be weaker when it comes to French debates but he isn't easy to get riled up. As for the comment made earlier in another thread about using written notes, well yeah, it does look better if you go from memory but with the schedule these guys have had, I am surprised they can even remember their own names. I am really looking forward to the English debate, I can at least keep up with that one

Thanks for the link MS, I liked that article, I just wish more would be written along those lines.

I really doubt this will happen, for one thing, the Liberals have thrown too much manure in the face of the Conservatives. I really doubt that MArtin and Harper can get along for very long. Martin is a lawyer and Harper is an economics major. As for defeating the social policies of the BQ and NDP is a bunch of marlarky. If anything, the BQ has more to gain than anyone from a minority government. If the country really wanted all of the social policies of the NDP, then they would od so with a vote at election time. It is not the Liberals, Conservatives or the BQ that hold the NDP back but rather NDP policies themselves. The policies sound wonderful in theory but in reality they make no sense to the average Canadian. Maybe if the NDP did not have a history of wanting to spend tax payers hard earned money on such policies, then they might be more effective. I think we can all agree that the Liberals have shown that there has been some funny business going on and this in turn shows lack of control or care. If the average person performed their jobs this way, they would be looking to apply for EI, which no one can seem to find out how much money this account contains. I am starting to wonder if this money has been squandered too to pay for some BS program? If this is so, then the Liberals absolutely have to go with a great big ol size 9 in the keester. I, like any open minded person can look at all the party policies and agree with certain points from each party. Now I also have to decide which party has the most policies I agree with. Finally I have to decide which party will be able to follow through with the promises that they have made. The Liberals have basically broken the majority of the promises they have made or handed us watered down versions over the past 11 years. eg. sponsorship scandal, gun control and we still have the GST to boot, not that I hate the GST but a promise is a promise. So in other words, I can't trust them to follo wthrough on any of their promises. I have looked at the NDP policies and can not find the economic feasibility of their promises. The math just doesn't add up unless they take more money out of my paycheque and that is not acceptable because being a middle class worker, I can't afford it. I am not looking for more daycare so my wife and I can work longer hours. I am looking to make more money so I can spend more time with my wife and kids instead of working an extra 2-3 weeks before I hit tax free day. I already work almost half a year before I make money for myself. I also disagree with some of the Conservative spending numbers but I like their ideas of giving more power to the provinces. I also like their ideas of getting rid of corporate subsidies but I feel they also need to keep in mind that they also have to continue with job creation. I liked the idea I saw in another thread of putting time limits on incentives, never really thought about that before. If a person is really looking for a centrist type government, then it would have to be a NDP-Con coalition but can you imagine the chaos? A Liberal-NDP coalition would see the NDP kept in the dark when it comes to the money books in return for seeing some NDP policies being put in place. The BQ will only ever back any party that will benefit Quebec whether it benefits the rest of Canada or not. Dependant on voting results on the 28, the BQ could literally hold the rest of the country hostage. Now that thought really scares the crap out of me more than any other coalition.

I think you are right the Liberals are afraid of another party coming to power. The scandals and wasted moeny is much deeper than we are allowed to be told. What exactly I do not know but I get the feeling that the Liberals are very desparate here. There appears to be more of a hidden agenda coming from the Liberals than any other party. As for the BQ being the winner in the next election, well yeah, they will be. They quite possibly can hold the balance of power in Ottawa but the real question should "what effect will this have on the rest of Canada"? The BQ's seperatist agenda is of no secret to anyone can read or hear. I fear that any bills sent to parliment that does not directly benefit Quebec would be quashed. If the BQ's goal was for Quebec to have more provincial powers, then I would not have so much of a problem but Quebec already has more powers than any other province. Where will this lead us? To chaos whether we have a Liberal or Conservative minority government. The world will view us as an unstable country and our financial markets will get a real kick in the butt. Yeah, the BQ will win alright when our financial stability as a country slides and the payouts end. They will start to use this as a reason to start talking seperation again. Right now Canada is fairly stable and the economy is doing ok so why rock the boat when everyone is able to keep their heads above water.

Takeanumber, I must commend you for thinking outside the box and I kind of like your idea. After thinking about it for a bit, in all reality, there is no reason to keep a gun in urban areas. As with almost all limitation laws though, it would be extremely hard to enact and impose on people. I think it would be interesting to see a test ballot on this though and see where the people of this country stand on such an issue. As for the handgun resolution, the majority of handguns sold now are mainly black market as the hoops you have to jump through to buy one legitamately are very tough and the majority of gun owners view a handgun as a past time, not a necessity. The only legitimate purpose for a handgun is target shooting and this could be very easily be done through a rental type program at shooting ranges. As for assault style weapons, they are already legislated through the ying yang and an item that mostly collectors even care to attempt to buy. And if you are caught with a converted assault weapon, you basically go to jail. Canada basically bans most weapons that can be converted to full auto easily. One thread mentioned the majority of weapons related killings now involve knives, which I have read lots of places. I was wondering if anyone knows of any age statistics of the people committing those knife crimes?

I also agree with this statement however I think that we can go about the abortion issue in different ways. Why is it that a woman can get an abortion paid for by healthcare but a mna has to pay for a vasectomy. They are both choices to do with our own bodies. I also do not feel that it is wrong to request a woman to get counselling before an abortion exploring the alternatives. We offer counselling for everything else under the sun nowadays. This should also be an issue decided by referendum but put it in the terms of "do you support publically funded abortions"? Am I radical, maybe but I would like to see an end to this argument.

We all know that MS is so pro-NDP that he even has a picture of Layton beside his bed but he does start some interesting threads every now and then. I am sure he will come off of his cloud 9 after the election and realizes all his predictions of a NDP victory were induced by that wild BC pot.

Thats the whole point of discussion boards as far as I am concerned. As long as the discussions can be respectful to others opinions. I also do not agree with of issues listed here but that is how we can learn about new ideas.

Out of respect for a man who achieved many things, Martin should go. This does not just boil down to personal beliefs or feelings, this is respect for a former leader whom the world generally liked. This is not a time to turn your nose up at the US.