Sir Bandelot

I enjoyed a quiet day around the house. Fortunately my day was not at all like her day. Seems like a bit of an over-reaction.

In this dog-eat-dog world, I have no problem with the concept, whoever attacks others should also be attacked. Or what would you expect, hugs?

How dare you people invoke Jack in this discussion. Pretty sure Jack opposed these wars. The man was a Saint, I tell you

I always thought they were carried out in revenge for what was done to Iraq, as well as ideological adherence to Qutbism.

Lets say someone gives you 1 million dollars. Next, another person gives you ten dollars. How much do you have? Basically, a million dollars. Let's say, instead of gives you ten dollars, they remove ten dollars. How much do you have now? It could simply be a question of scale. If one component predominates by a factor of 100 or more, the sign of the other is irrelevant.

Thanks for your reply, Wilber.

That is my general perception as well, but I would not use the word "silly" for three thousand deaths. It is a tragedy. But I think your point really is, we hardly think twice about the hundreds of thousands who've been killed in subsequent years after 9/11. We hardly even think about it at all. The fact that it happened on US soil is what has shocked and frightened many people, but this is only because they are ignorant to what has been going on elsewhere in the world. Ignorant or indifferent.

What bothers me is that the investigation after the attack did not seem to be thorough enough. Prior to 9/11 I was always under the impression that the US always had armed fighter jets ready to scramble on a few minutes notice, in particular to that area between New York and Washington. For these attacks to have been successful seems almost 'miraculous', in a bad way. So many things had to go wrong with their national security. Maybe the security had just gotten complacent, or there were too many spending cuts. Or worse, they were incompetent. I guess I would have been more satisfied if they had admitted that someone screwed up, and after an investigation someone had to resign due to incompetence. I don't know, it just seems bizarre that the terrorists were able to pull it off the way they did.

I really would appreciate your insight into the ability to fly such a plane in the manner that they did. I heard at those speeds it would be difficult to make the turns and guide the plane into the building, without computer assistance. The Pentagon flight path as I recall was even more difficult to comprehend.

They certainly do appear to be more responsible. But how do you feel about the fact the GWB continued to hold hands and blow kisses into those Saudi princes ears, long after 9-11? Evidently he did not feel the same way. And if anyone really knows, it ought to be him.

When intended to be ignorant, luck is not needed. As well you know... ignorant comments are also your specialty.

Not sure about the numbers for warming on the past 15 years, but Greenland is still melting at an accelerated rate, even faster than predicted. Glaciers are rapidly disappearing worldwide. Pics of Greenland glacier melt shocks expert

Muslims do wear turbans though. Seen one on the picture of Osama Bin Laden, Ayman Al- Zawahiri, and lots of others on the most wanted list. If I am mistaken about this, so are the vast majority of people in the west. Good luck on correcting this misperception!

The loss of innocent lives in Sept. 11 was tragic, JBG. As it is whenever it happens. Yes they were evil men. But what your OP does not touch on is WHY. What was their motive for making the attacks? That would help us understand what it is that motivates people to commit terrorism.

Start wearing a turban.

I played the violin...

From what I understand, the real/ organized protest was intended to be outside the theatre, not to disrupt the musical event. An explanation of their reasons for picketing the orchestra was posted by the group on their web site here Moreover, during the 1948 Nakba, the IPO made it a mission to entertain Israeli soldiers [6] who were busy ethnically cleansing Palestinians, committing massacres and systematically demolishing hundreds of Palestinian villages to prevent the refugees' return. The IPO also entertained Israeli troops in 1967 [7], right after Israel's war of aggression against the Palestinians and Arab states and its occupation of the West Bank. Similarly, in October 2010 the Archbishop Desmond Tutu asked the Cape Town Opera not to travel to Israel. His argument was based on his firm belief in human rights and equality. He wrote, "Just as we said during apartheid that it was inappropriate for international artists to perform in South Africa in a society founded on discriminatory laws and racial exclusivity, so it would be wrong for Cape Town Opera to perform in Israel. "Cape Town Opera should postpone its proposed tour next month until both Israeli and Palestinian opera lovers of the region have equal opportunity and unfettered access to attend performances. “Only the thickest-skinned South Africans would be comfortable performing before an audience that excluded residents living, for example, in an occupied West Bank village 30 minutes from Tel Aviv, who would not be allowed to travel to Tel Aviv, while including his Jewish neighbours from an illegal settlement on occupied Palestinian territory.”

Perhaps, but if they hadn't a wasted so much on those wars, would they have been better able to weather the current economic storm? That's like when my mother in law complains that she can't afford a new dishwasher, now that the one I bought her some years ago is broken. Well guess what Ma, if you hadn't have gone to the Casino and blew thousands, you'd be able to afford it. But no. And now, I should pay again? Pshaw! pshaw, I say. This seems like your standard response to everything you disagree with. Have you got that on a macro?

Fascism won. And the point I'm making is, you can defeat a people militarily but you can't defeat ideas.

No, I realize that. Enjoy your break. And hope we can further discuss these matters upon your return!

It appears that the opposite is more common, that solar flares and CME's originate from sunspots hence there should be more CME's during the active part of the solar cycle. From what I understand there is an increased output of constant solar wind during parts of the solar cycle where there are few sunspots. Sunspots are regions of intense localized magnetic field. There is some effect on the overall magnetic field of the sun, during times when there are many sunspots. This lowers the output of solar wind (electrons and protons streaming constantly out from the sun), so that energy is stored in the corona and at some point there is a magnetic collapse, and resultant output of an intense solar flare. I'm no expert. Effects from the solar wind can be seen in comets, whose tails always point away from the sun no matter whether the comet is moving towards or away from the sun. Recently we observed the comet Elenin disintegrate before our very eyes, as it were. The solar wind travels out beyond the solar system itself, where there is a boundary point that creates a kind of "bow-shock" as our solar system travels through space. The energy in the solar wind is substantial. The energy in the corona is even higher. The corona is a gas cloud surrounding the sun, that is much higher in temperature than the sun itself. Upwards of two million degrees C. Components of the corona extend beyond the orbit of planet earth, though at this distance they are quite 'rarefied'. It is interesting to note that during times of 'quiet sun', the corona changes its shape and becomes more dense, and extends farther out primarily along the equatorial axis of the sun. spooky stuff

They might do that. But it's possible to raise questions without having answers, as I did. And then going out to find some answers. The CERN experiment is interesting in that it was real science, and showed some interesting results but that does not mean it's definitive. The climate system is so vast and complex that it's hard for us laymen to really understand it, let alone debate. Heck even scientists are clearly in disagreement on many things here, some for political purposes but not only that. The model is not complete, and maybe it never can be. Since chaos seems to be a factor, and we only have good data for a short period of time, and vague general data for long periods of time. It occurs to me that the cosmic rays hypothesis does not hold for apparent global warming on Mars. The cosmic rays hypothesis is based on the model that rays from the solar wind interact with our atmosphere to create water droplets and thus more cloud cover. That cannot be the case on Mars, for obvious reasons.

It is beside the point entirely. But the point I raised with the priest analogy was more toward debating the OP. That is, how can you claim to label something a representative of a 'culture', when it is clearly the actions of a few? And why do we automatically give ourselves every exception, but never others? Could it be that the hate of others, for crimes for which we too are guilty, just widens the divide. But it does not address the problem which is in our common human nature. Back to the scarf melee, it looks ot me to be just a bunch of mis-behaving individuals. The OP also indicates they were fighting among themselves. I raised this point earlier, but none of you want to pick up on this. Were they fighting among themselves? If so, why. That would seem to say, some of them found the behaviour of others to be unacceptable.

From the perspective of justice for muslims, you are right. But from the perspective of al qaida, 9-11 was a smash success. Not just the destruction of the towers per se, but the aftermath, both economic and social/ cultural. The free world became less free, everywhere. If they truly hate us for our freedoms, as the saying goes, they did well for their cause. I think we helped them, by over-reacting. You mentioned arab spring, and yes, their actions radicalized many muslims. Again we helped them, by over-reacting. It's arguable that the economic debacle today is a consequence of expensive wars that accomplished little. If it was their intention to take down the system through harming one of it's most cherished values (money), they've certainly done that. It's arguable that we are still dealing with the damage in the aftermath, and this is not over yet. Certainly not over as we continue wasting large amounts of money on efforts that yield little value. The whole security apparatus seems to be a colossal waste. But once these things are put in place, they're impossible to get rid of. There will never be a time when we can 'stand down'. As they say now, the lone wolf is our greatest threat, and for that we must put entire countries on alert. I would say al qaida has not won any battles, yet they have won the war.

I didn't mean for you all to stop, sheesh! Or can we not have any kind of civil discussion around here. Now, I consider myself to be an un-biased skeptic. No one has convinced me, but I want to know. I prefer to listen to science, hard facts and observations over politics. The CERN thing seems to say, it's the sun, due to increased cosmic rays resulting from a drop in the suns magnetic field. As an astronomy enthusiast and a "backyard Galileo" I know that the sun is doing something very strange for a few years now. The number of sunspots has dramatically decreased. The next solar cycle should have started a few years ago but is so far absent. In a recent article in 'Sky and Telescope' I read that there is speculation that the sunspot cycle is about to come to an end. They've posted that article online here- Is the Sunspot Cycle About to Stop? In that article it points out that the suns magnetic field is decreasing: Penn and Livingston find that since about (year)2000, the average field strength has declined from 2,500 or 3,000 gauss to about 2,000 gauss now. They expected Cycle 24's spots to appear with rejuvenated field strength, but they didn't. The average magnetic field in the centers of sunspots has continued a more or less unbroken decline, as shown here. (graph) We also have this information- Mars Melt Hints at Solar, Not Human, Cause for Warming, Scientist Says Perhaps you boyz have already covered this in other threads, but for the moment please, indulge me.