Agaric

Actually he was being quite serious ...

Whats the problem here ? The guy lied about his criminal record, thats not good and hes a religious bigot to boot, no developed society needs ppl like that and hes being considered for citizenship I dont have a problem with him being denied it here.

For Canadas part what we did was disgusting! We also have since realized the mistake we made, apologized to Arar and tried in some small way to make up for the hell hes lived through. The u.s. deported him, not Canada, im not saying either side is innocent here but its time for the u.s. to issue a full apology for the screw up they did ...

The truth hurts eh Scott ...

*Sigh* .............. "Its called the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe in it" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKCnbVWZzvw

No, being TORTURED means u were TORTURED ! Thats what hes said, thats what Syrians have alluded to, thats what the u.s. AND Canada believe happened ... its called a FACT It was the u.s. actions that sent him to be tortured, thats why the democrat apologized ...

Spin it spin it spin it !!! The u.s. detained him, the u.s. extradited him because they knew he would be tortured. He was tortured and noone is debating this fact except YOU ...

The u.s. invaded Iraq against the U.N.'s wishes, most of the world was against it because they knew what ur government was desperate to try to fool people about, there was no connection between Iraq and 911, none, never was ... The u.s. has consistently done corrupt actions around the world, from overthrowing governments to butchering hundreds if not millions of people ... They put punitive sanctions on countries simply because they wont give goods to the u.s. at prices they want, they help terrorist groups train and arm them as long as they fight against the u.s.'s current enemy ... The u.s. violates and twists the rights of its own people, its a horrible, horrible country, its the government that is the problem but the american people are asleep at the switch here ... Heres one example, look at how many military bases the u.s. has around the world!!! http://www.globalpolicy.org/empire/interve...imperialmap.htm There are at least 700 foreign military bases !!! Think about that ... Add to that the actions of the u.s, against countries that wont give them resources the way the u.s. wants and u get a very clear picture, empire building, have ur hand in decisions from countries all around the world, control their economies, setup military bases everywhere ... This isent a mystery and its fairly common knowledge ...

What are u talking about? First i would be glad to have Mexicans immigrate here, im not a racist or a bigot like some other ppl here, I dont see them as a problem, they are human beings, with a different culture and language, so Fing what? Im not selfish, theres plenty to share here ... Hahahaha, sort of like Barbara Bush telling ppl after Katrina that the poor in new orleans are better off because of the disaster *L* So because Africa in ur mind is worse then Mexico then the Mexicans have no right to want a better life for themselves .... what does 2 + 2 equal in ur world? Also I have no problem with Quebecers or speaking French, projecting more of ur bigotry I see ...

So u admit that the u.s. is corrupt but u feel its a case of keep ur friends close and ur enemies closer?

Try getting someone to read it to you, a 4th grader perhaps ? What does that have to do with the rotten things the u.s. does ? You all arent understanding the simplest of concepts here ... The u.s. is a massive threat, possibly the largest on earth today, with their weapons and money and power stretching across its empire and with little care for human life. What does the flaws of any other country have to do with this FACT ! Stop deflecting the point, just say "Yes, the u.s. is a fricking mess, yes americans should be doing more to fix it, yes our population seems very stupid and lazy about it, yes, your right Agaric, I might not feel comfortable admitting it but your absolutely right" I mean if u cant admit it here for fear of some silly ego of urs just admit it to urself ... STOP LYING TO YOURSELVES PEOPLE ! ITS PATHETIC !! On a separate subject completely yes we should oppose corruption and treachery anywhere it exists ... So what should we do about the u.s. ???

Im not talking about being allowed into the u.s. Im talking about what a screw up the u.s. made by sending someone to be TORTURED, thats what happened to him, thats why Canada gave him money (which never can compensate for what he went through), thats why some yanks know enoguh to apologize, this is very clear for someone who uses their head ... You denying he was tortured is just another example of how sick and misinformed ur society is ...

Are u kidding ? *LOL* Uh TAXES anyone? *L* Following law alone is a shared pact we have in society, it says that we all benefit more from sacrificing our every whim by making sure that at least some of what we want is able to happen ... EVERYTHING we do is something we have to share with those around us ... This is a case of be careful what u ask for because everything you have is because someone elses work contributed to yours to make sure we all have much more then before ...

Ya, how horrible, we try to help those that need it, just terrible of us ... the reality is we should be doing ten times what we do already, which is ten times more then anything the u.s. does for ppl in need ... Like I said, your businesses encourage them, they want that slave labour, keep hiring ppl and they will keep coming, they want a better life then poverty in Mexico, you would do the same thing, they arent bad for doing it and quoting rules is like calling someone who steals bread because they are starving a worthless thief, it ignores the reality of the haves and the have nots ... in just shows the ignorance of some people and their inability to understand, empathize or care in any way for people other then themselves ...

If you lived in Mexico and could make 3 times the amount of money doing slave labour in the u.s. and u had a family and all u had to do was cross that border, u would do the same thing ... BTW american businesses LOVE the illegal immigrant, they work like slaves, they cant complain and u can pay them shit for their work, they reason there are so many in southern u.s. is because ur businesses are beyond greedy and would love to pay average americans $2 an hour !

In the last 30 years? You conveniently trying to redefine my point? Sorry my point stands and I will give u a few examples, so much for a just government, the u.s. has been corrupt and corrupting for over 30 years *LOL* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._intervention_in_Chile http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ajax www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATQrQ5pfDYo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_Guatemal...d'%C3%A9tat http://sincronia.cucsh.udg.mx/dominican.html Name 2 what? name 2 ppl killed by the u.s. !?!??! or 2 rights that have been stolen ????!!??! Either way thats a ridiculous question ... rights 1. free speech zones 2. spying Just click here to get a sense of how many innocent Iraqis have been butchered ... http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/iraq/iraqdeaths.html

Some of the more right wing ppl here should be investigating this closer ... http://noii-van.resist.ca/?page_id=15

I thought this forum was about discussing real things? So do we or do we not have an obligation to look out for others in society, I can guess what scott and bushcheney will say *L* but lets assume there are intelligent ppl here, what do u have to say ? My point is its our obligation to help them and if that means giving them the shirt off my back then so be it! I have plenty of shirts and they have none, thats the idea, its the concept ur mom taught u when u were a kid, sharing is valuable, its admirable and its virtuous, if we want a society thats good then we have to uphold good ideas.

Wow ur a sociopath! *L* So its his fault he was wrongfully tortured? Do humans have rights? Do you not care if ppl are tortured? Take a good look folks, this is the yank in his natural habitat, bigoted, stupid, racist and sociopathic ...

Canada isent perfect, I would never say that but ur deliberately missing THE point! The u.s. causes much of the harm in the WORLD, they overthrow democratic governments, they murder hundreds of thousands of ppl for control and money, they steal the rights from its very ppl! The u.s. is a major threat to the world, period, end of sentence, just admit that and stop trying to deflect the issue "Well Canada does this" or "Well Africa did this other thing". You cant defend someones actions by comparison, either they are a threat and do cause lots of harm or not, stop urself from deflecting things, face the topic head on ...

Close, a 6'3" guy thats tired of lazy, stupid Canadians letting our country dissolve infront of our eyes without doing a damn thing about it ... Im also fed up with the crap that the u.s. causes, we need to oppose them in any way we can, they are one of the greatest threats to the world today, maybe the most being that they not only have the will and the weapons but they are insane enough to murder any population that stands in their way, at least with some other insane countries they tend to be 3rd worlds with a military that could only stop wooden arrows but the u.s. is a whole different beast ... Of course noone will see this point here and everyone will assume theres nothing to be worried about ...

I don't know Mahers wants but I would just be happy with a full governmental apology and an assurance that the u.s. will make sure it never sends an innocent man to be tortured again. We both know the u.s. is such a pile of mess right now that it would never admit a mistake but theres hope that at least an apology will be given by the government ...

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gjmr8B3...jQLaYQTfWnFz2fg The u.s. government might not know what justice is but at least one of its democrats does, I have to say I am glad someone admits to the crime done to this innocent man ...

Theres no opposite that should be done, we need to realize that there will always be poverty as long as we have an unfair economic system that says its ok to make billions for urself but if ur uneducated or have an addiction or have emotional or mental problems then u end up eating garbage and living on the streets. Poverty will always exist in our system and we as a society need to realize its the LEAST we can do to make sure these ppl are fed, given safe shelter and helped with an education, thats ur cousin and uncle and sister and father and mother, those are ur neighbours, we OWE it to society to help them and if that means we eat the cost then so be it, we dont live in tribes anymore because we realize that working together we can accomplish more then working as individuals, its a pact we made, thats why we settled down as a species and farmed and built social networks. So my point is its our obligation to help them and if that means giving them the shirt off my back then so be it! I have plenty of shirts and they have none, thats the idea, its the concept ur mom taught u when u were a kid, sharing is valuable, its admirable and its virtuous, if we want a society thats good then we have to uphold good ideas.

Of course they are just as welcome as anyone, they need to go through a process like everyone but people are ultimately free to decide where they want to move to, bigotry and racism should never be part of our decision making process ...