Evan

Last night, I spent some time reading, and reading and reading, to be able to come up with one paragraph descriptions for each of the parties environment plans. If you're interested in a simple comparison, you can read it here: http://www.electricangels.ca/?q=node/15

Are you sure that postage isn't paid by fundraising by both the provincial office and the riding associations? Or perhaps the membership dues. I know the NDP works hard to obtain their finances and it is usually through voluntary donation. Secondly, are you that insulted that there is a government which is actually asking your opinion? Before you get upset with it, when was the last time Stephen Harper asked what you think and was willing to take it into consideration? What does democracy really mean to you, and how do you expect the 'people's' opinion to really form the activities of government with parties that don't consult the people? Harper seems to care more about the opinions of big business rep's rather than the people he is supposed to represent. That was proven at the SPP. But I stray into federal politics in a provincial politics section.

You won't lose that choice. Every party would list the potential MMP's and the order that they would be chosen to fill the seats. So... if you really don't like the people on the list don't vote for them. But it's a more generic vote for the team rather than for the person. Either way, the team still has to appeal to the people, and the people will know who that team is.

As I was in school, we studied the foundations of a myth. What makes a myth, what makes it a good myth which will catch people's attentions and last decades. In that, we compared it to Greek mythology and even the resurrection of Christ. Was that wrong? I mean, these beliefs exist, do we just tell the public school system to ignore them and pretend they aren't out there, or do we actually address them in proper context? As for what the Buddhists DON'T believe. That's great, but was not the question. What DO they believe? What does the Koran say on the issue? Or what's the Hindu stance? You probably live beside and face people of these faiths on a daily basis. What do you really know about the social structure from which they came, as most social structures including that of the Western Cultures are defined and founded with roots deep into their religions. And of course, one must remember, that science once told us that the sun revolved around the earth. Based on hundreds of years of study and observation. Does that mean it was accurate? It meant that science as always was developed on our 'current understanding' and tools of study. And might I also add that we are still taught that people believed that was the structure of the solar system, even though it has been proven wrong.

"“They teach evolution in the Ontario curriculum, but they also could teach the fact to the children that there are other theories that people have out there that are part of some Christian beliefs,”" He is not encouraging the teaching of "Creation is real", but educating people on religion from an objective point of view. "Some people believe...." I think it is important to teach children the foundations of ALL religions. So as long as it's not one, but introduction to the wide variety of views out there helping people understand each other's cultures, I don't see the problem. After all, I remember reading about aboriginal stories in school about eagles and whales.... we also teach about greek mythology. These are what some people believe or have believed in the past. So again, the question comes as to why the public schools can't teach it regarding ALL religions. Heck, if you really want to get into it, science itself is a belief, even the Darwinian theory of evolution is up for debate within the scientific community, but we're teaching it. The scientific community believes ___________. It has been proven wrong in the past. And who on this forum can tell me what the Buddhist theory is on where we all came from? And if you can't, then would you agree that you are ignorant and uneducated on the issues of world religions (As I admit I am myself)? They are a part of our world. These same religions can be picked up in Universities, so why can they not be taught in public schools, do you believe that kids are not intelligent enough to decide for themselves? I know my daughter will look at me and tell me something sounds foolish.

** Post edited and removed because I realized I didn't know what I was talking about **

I think he's looking more Liberal myself. Or maybe it's the other way around and McGuinty is looking more Conservative. Geez, I just can't tell anymore. It think they should just both go buy purple shirts.

Give us Valentines Day to encourage family values within couples. "Vote Liberal! We may not know how to manage money, but we'll give you another day to get drunk every year in hopes that the party lives on forever and you never notice what we're really up to." I don't think an extra day off is going to be all that important to the people who have been given 365 days a year off in our manufacturing industry.

I took a look at some faith based schools, and their costs and find things such as $3250/year, $2500/year per child. Now put yourself in a low income family with a single income, and 3 children. You can't honestly tell me that somebody who is working for $24000 a year can realistically afford $7500-10000/year. No, you don't have to be wealthy, but you definitely need to be fairly comfortable. There is a rather large population in Ontario who cannot afford private schooling.

Haha! I think cost is an issue in everything when it comes to politics, and of course everybody is looking for cost effective solutions. That is not the primary reason I debate the issue. My concern is in two areas. The cost on the quality of the public system by placing public funds into private schools which already have a source of income AND are not within reach to all Ontarians. With dual source income the private schools will naturally have a higher quality of education than the public school system, especially if they are tapping into what would be public funds. Is this fair to the thousands of Ontarian families who want quality education for their children but are not in the higher income brackets which can afford private schooling? The second is the concern of segregation within the community. As for not messing with the system that is in place, it is being messed with as we speak. We are looking at making a change which is why it is such a hot topic during the election. It is 'just an issue of funding'. But placement of public funds will have ripple effects into the system as a whole. If we were not looking at making changes which affect all the schools in Ontario it wouldn't be under such scrutiny and debate. So if we're going to make changes anyways, should we not be making 100% sure that we have reviewed every possible option? I agree that we should publicly fund EVERY child's education. But in publicly funding, it should be through public services. The question I am trying to put in people's minds is, "Where is the public system failing families that they are opting for private schooling, and what can be done to reduce the void in the system and make our public system one that addresses these concerns?" In the end, we are providing a system which has the capacity to fund every child's education, but it also needs to meets the needs of every child. Apparently at this time it is not, otherwise families would not feel the need to turn to other alternatives. And believe me, as I came up with my personal alternative the other day while I was drinking my morning coffee, I know that I am very much standing alone on my perspective. Or at least I have not encountered anybody else who shares the opinion. But, as the late Tommy Douglas said, "Courage, my friends; 'tis not too late to build a better world." And for this reason, I have no fear in throwing my idea out on the table, as a discussed and repressed idea is better than one that never gets evaluated.

First I'd like to comment on the "crack addicted gutter whore's " comment. And it is not to say anything one way or the other, but just to point out that if the more 'elite' in society run into addictions problems, it is more often with alcohol or cocaine. Now, to actually get to the point of the thread. Yes, I believe that if somebody who is given any kind of power abuses such power for their own means, they should be held accountable. Corruption of any sort when given the faith and trust of the people should not go un-addressed. Politicians face it during election time. At what point do the people of Canada have an opportunity to stand up for what they believe is right against people who are not responsible to report back to the voters?

For the sake of discussing both sides of the coin, I will say that education of religion IS in fact education. My question is that if thousands of Ontarians want their children to be studying religion as part of their schooling, do we just say, "Fine, pay for public schools." or do we try and restructure the education system to meet the demand of the tax-paying citizens and come up with an alternative which suits everybody while keeping it in the public system, so that we don't have to worry about how much of our tax dollars will be going to private schools which we don't use?

Thank you so much! I was hoping to find a good discussion of the issues here. This will take a minute, grab a coffee. As for the question of who is going to pay for it. It's funny, just today I was starting a discussion of how we fight the myth that the NDP is a Tax and Spend party. I'll begin by mentioning that a lot of the money to provide quality service in Ontario for the most part is already there. These programs can be paid for by not banking millions of dollars waiting for opportunities to privatize healthcare or saving for pre-election spending. It can be used by taking tighter control of the finances and making sure you don't have mishaps like a million dollars given to people who asked for a few thousand. It's by knowing what money you have, and not coming up at the end of the year saying, "Hey, look what we found!". As for the healthcare privatization. Take a look at the witness accounts from the employees working in the now privatized Royal Ottawa Hospital. Where the tax payers are still paying for things like maintenance services, but now paying for wages which not only employ the workers but feed the pockets of the business running them. There is a divide within the workers who are no longer a team. Those who work for the province, and those who work for private industry. The level of care has diminished, and the provincial costs have gone up. Again, I'll urge you to take a look at the report released by the Ontario Public Services Employees Union (OPSEU) and see what the people in the thick of it are saying. http://www.opseu.org/bps/health/mental/P3R...ttawaReport.pdf Healthcare can be improved by implementing more home care for one. Many people do not necessarily need to be living in hospitals to get the care they need. Caring for them at home 1) frees up more beds in the hospitals helping reduce wait times. 2) is actually more affordable than treating them in the hospitals 3) improves the quality of life for patients who would probably much rather be at home in their own bed than in hospitals. When it comes to the environment. A plan based on Renewables and Reduced Consumption is the only plan which is forward thinking. The Liberals talked about reducing consumption but had higher consumption this year than ever before. A plan based on renewables is not only environmentally friendly, but is going to open thousands of jobs in Ontario. And if implemented properly is actually the most affordable option. Think about nuclear for a second. Right now the uranium mining is being scrutinized, while the Liberals and Conservatives want to implement a plan that will increase it 12 fold. When a problem comes along at a nuclear power plant, worst case scenario that land becomes unlivable for a million years. Yes, a million years, that's how long it takes for nuclear waste to become stable again. We still don't know what to do with it. Stick it in silos that might last 100 years if we're lucky, and hope our children might figure out the answer to the question which our current scientists haven't been able to answer for 20 years. As for poverty. If one child goes a day without food, that's one too many. That's my opinion. I agree with the above points that by leaving people living in poverty there come other costs, such as health related. Or perhaps through the justice system, as poverty and street crime go hand in hand. How is increasing the minimum wage to a point which lifts thousands of Ontarians above the poverty line a bad thing? It increased the quality of life for those thousands of Ontarians, improves the economy by making more 'spenders' to support our commercial structure, and on top of that, makes thousands of people who were below the poverty line, tax payers to help pay for those other services which is where this whole rant started.

Why? Do you think the public system can't do it properly? Or that it will full under too much scrutinizing?

I hope the NDP can come about. I know people who have names in the political world who have told me that it's the only party left that truly believes in Democracy. (who aren't NDPers themselves). It's a shame that there's a bad taste in the mouths of Ontarians about the 'Rae Days'. Granted, Rae made his mistakes, it didn't help that he inherited a deficit and took the blame for it, or that the largest recession hit since WW2. People have a bad taste about Harris, and many have a bad taste regarding McGuinty. So every party has it's history. But in the last decade, the PC and the Lib's have both had their turn to screw us over and now are looking much the same. So why not look at giving Howard Hapton a chance. I mean, if you want to keep healthcare public, he's your only choice. PC set up the stage, and the Liberals started selling out already. If you want a green energy plan, NDP are the only ones who are talking about renewable and not immensely multiplying our nuclear waste generation. If you want to fight poverty, the NDP are the only ones offering to give 'working people' a wage which after an entire year of full time work, they are not living below the poverty line. The other guys, don't seem to care about this stuff, and don't think they need to because it's going to be one of them anyways. I sure hope the NDP picks up seats and makes the Red's and Blue's pay attention to the people's real demands.

My neighborhood kind of passes 60/100. However, it doesn't keep in mind things like the fact that the corner store charges more than 2x as much as the grocery store and should be avoided at all costs. Or the fact that the one time I walked into the small grocery store up on the 'main drag' they were spraying all the produce with Raid and I decided I would never walk in there again.... There are some flaws in the 'google system' to say the least.

My wife was looking at going to U of O. Unfortunately, the medical course she was interested in taking in English is no longer carried in English. French only. Shame, Carleton U didn't have the course. So I guess unless we want to move the family she's up a specific creek sans un levier. Not sure what my point is exactly, but it ties into Ottawa U and bilingualism I think.

Tory is right. It is 'inclusive'. It brings private schools under the government wing to oversee education and help make sure that all children received a quality education that covers the issues that need to be covered. McGuinty is right. Having the Muslim children playing in a park on X side of the block at lunch hour and the Christian kids playing on Y side of the block, while the non-denominational kids are on side W does create segregation in the community. For anybody to argue that it won't needs to look at children like my daughter and her multicultural friends, and what happens to her understanding of our society when you start breaking apart her classroom and social circle; indirectly telling her who her friends should be by example and increasing ignorance of those who she doesn't associate with daily. The truth is, it's a controversial issue. And if it's divided 50/50 through the population, than neither are the right answer. Take a look at my above post. I commented on a 3rd alternative. An alternative which brings faith-based education under the public wing. An alternative which closes the gaps of segregation rather than increases them. Don't think I'm saying that my idea is "The Way". But when the population is divided between options A & B, why not look further. Where's the C, the D and the E? You can't tell me that there isn't another alternative out there which could not satisfy the concerns of both sides of the dispute? Look forward, create new solutions and be progressive.

No to private faith-based schools. Including Catholic. Yes, the catholic school system is well setup and has some great facilities. It better! It's not only getting private funding but public on top of it. Of course they've got extra cash and thus are in a better state than our public-schools. That needs to change. Put that money back in the public system where is should be, which is used by the vast majority of Ontarians. I believe creating private school segregation is detrimental to the future of our Canadian society. How many children in Catholic schools are meeting members of the muslim community while growing up? They will have to live beside and work beside people of other cultures, is it really a good idea to separate them as far as possible from those cultures? We are a multicultural society which is divided by religions, and the government should not be supporting the creation of that divide. If parents want to have their children study religion, than it needs to be re-integrated into the public school system with a progressive approach. An elective program for parents to decide which religion class their children will be attending. But part of that curriculum should also be to cross-educate on cultures. Perhaps teach Muslims the most basic of views from the Christian religions and vice versa from an objective point of view. This would help us to strengthen our multicultural society, by helping the children in schools today understand their fellow Canadians tomorrow closing the gap of cultural segregation within society.

I just blogged on this issue. I figured I'd post it here in hopes of having more readers.. ---------------------------- If you've been watching the Working Families Coalition ads on TV, you may notice how they are attack ads which appear to be supporting the Liberal Party. It seems to be a nice hand-in-hand setup. The Liberals run ads saying how good they are, and Working Families "an independent organization" runs the attack ads. Now, I'd almost be willing to give it a bit of merit. And say PERHAPS it's true that they are unassociated. But there's one ad which haunts my perspective of the situation. The Working Families Coalition runs an ad talking about how the Conservative Party tried to sell our hospitals into privatization. And how the current administration has stopped them and improved health care all around. While the WFC claims to be educating people on the truths, why does it not mention that the 'current administration' followed through and arranged that the Royal Ottawa Hospital become a P3 hospital; and how it's holding millions of dollars in the bank while it tries to create another opportunity to generate privatization in our Health Care system. If Working Families, was truly non-partisan than wouldn't they be 'unraveling the spin' and 'showing the truth' as they claim to be? Instead they're creating their own spin which seems to fit all too well into the Liberal Party's war plan to be coincidence. Perhaps we could also look at the website. http://www.workingfamilies.ca When you go there, you're greeted by a nice man who invites you to sign up, and get involved in the discussion. So I tried to. I wanted to discuss the fact that their ad's were lying to the people of Ontario. But what do you know, there's no real discussion happening on their site. Well then, perhaps they're having public meetings. No, that doesn't seem to be happening either. Funny, they invite me to be involved in the discussion, but there is no real discussion going on. Must be happening in a back room somewhere. Well, there goes the idea of working people actually having any say over what's happening in the Working Families Coalition. This organization is a farce, and I highly suggest that you take their television spots with a large spoonful of salt.