Bonam

If you want to assert that the entirety of the reason for higher murder rates of white people than black people in South Africa is because white people tend to be rich farmers, then you should present data that shows that equally rich black farmers in South Africa (of which there should be some non-zero amount) are murdered at an equal rate. Otherwise, your statement is mere assumption with no basis.

Nice way of brushing racial violence under the rug. That's like if (note, hypothetical) I said: The success rate in the United States has nothing to do with race outside of the fact that most blacks are poor, most criminals are black, and most black neighbourhoods are isolated making them vulnerable to poor integration. Most people would probably be up in arms about a statement like that, and yet you feel completely normal making the exact same statement against white people, except in justification of murder rather than poor economic performance. Man, you could justify the freaking Holocaust with this type of reasoning. After all, in the early 30s, most Jews in Germany were quite well off.

South Africa is just a horrible horrible place to be a white person. Violence against white people, policies like "Black Economic Empowerment", preferential university admission for Black students, etc. It's like living in a ghetto. I've met several white emmigrants from South Africa, with stories of how they (or their parents) were thrown out of their jobs (diplomats, doctors, etc) for being white. Most seemed really glad just to have gotten out of there in one piece. Yet these policies and conditions in SA seem to have drawn almost no international attention or condemnation.

I'm guessing the reason has something to do with the specific list of invidividuals that comprise "the Elders". All of them have known positions on various issues, and some of these may be seen by some groups as anti-Semitic and/or anti-American to some extent. Anyway, a statement of goals is irrelevant compared to the actual actions of an organization.

Ever been down by Crystal Mall? Or how about the whole city of Richmond, a.k.a. New Hong Kong. Not that I have anything against these places or the people there, in fact, most of my friends in Vancouver are Chinese, but there's definitely some seperation going on.

Heh, that kind of made me laugh. The amount of required knowledge contained in our school curriculums is so pitiful it could easily all be compressed into a much smaller amount of time. Furthermore, it is very easy to include religious indoctrination to various degrees within other classes. If this move goes through, those Madrassas you mention are going to be springing up all over the province. Religious schools shouldn't exist, and they most especially shouldn't be funded with public funds. I'd rather not have my tax money spent to hire some fanatic from Hamastan (accredited of course) to instruct some kids on how best to kill me (in the guise of a lesson on math, physics, or biology) or why to hate me (in the guise of a lesson on english, socials, or history).

Seems to me that voters who care about a pro-Israeli stance in Canadian foreign policy would vote for the Conservatives regardless, as Harper has expressed strong support for Israel where the Liberals have offered only critiscism.

I don't know if expecting that either victory or defeat will ever happen is realistic. Victory for Islam would mean the conversion or dhimmitude of the entire world. Thing is though, while for now the West is just sitting around and being tolerant, once they really feel threatened by Islam, they will fight back. It will be later than it should have been, and the resulting conflict will be much bloodier than it had to be (just like WWII), but it'll happen. And if/when it does, the Western powers will almost certainly be victorious. Not to mention that to achieve victory, Islam would also have to spread to places like China, Russia, etc, and those countries would be much quicker in taking off the gloves and blowing the hell out of the middle-east and other places. As for defeat.. how would you define that? If it means the failure of Islamic states and Islamic civilization, then we can clearly see that Islam has spent the last few hundred years defeated. But it's still around. Defeat could only be the extermination or conversion away from Islam of all Muslims, the destruction of all Islamic institutions and physical symbols of Islam, the sustained occupation for generations of all Muslim lands and a relentless campaign to eliminate all information about Islam and to purge it from the memory of the peoples of the world, and that's something that the West would never allow to happen, even at the end of a terrible conflict. So I don't think that either total victory or defeat for Islam are likely outcomes. I think it's just going to stay there, in various degrees of conflict with other cultures for a given amount of time, until people get tired of fighting over it. Or maybe they will never tire of it, and the conflict will continue for as long as humanity exists. After all, the people of the lands that now make up the Islamic world and the people of the lands that now make up the West have been fighting each other for a good 3000 years at least already. In all those millenia of conflict, neither side has ever achieved total victory over the other, and not for lack of trying.

I think progress, especially scientific and technological progress, occured in step with the decline of religious power. When Christianity had as strong a hold on the population in Europe as Islam currently has in some middle-eastern countries, those European countries were also very stagnant and averse to scientific progress. I would argue that those aspects of Western culture that encourage progress and innovation are not particularly related to Christianity. Even today, issues stemming from Christianity continue to inhibit scientific and technological progress that could be benefit civilization, such as in the area of stem cell research. Also, while I share your apprehension about the current violent state of Islam and the implications this has for other civilizations throughout the world, it is worth remembering that at the age of 1400 years, Christianity, too, was quite violent and intolerant. Call me an optimist, but perhaps if humanity makes it through the next 600 years (when Islam will be as old as Christianity is now), and if religion is still around by then, then maybe Islam will have been pacified to an extent comparable to the present state of Christianity. One can only hope that some other cult doesn't grow to be a fullblown religion in the midst of its youth and virulence by then.

Yeah, I don't think anyone would find much safety in eastern Europe regardless of demographic trends elsewhere. Eastern Europe is and pretty much has always been a complete mess, which is also the main reason that it doesn't have many immigrants in the first place. Still though, it's important to note that high immigration and the possible decline into a minority of Caucasians is a feature only of Western culture, not of all Caucasian cultures.

He does have a point though in that not all nations with Caucasian majorities have high immigration rates. A major example of this is eastern Europe.

No, they can't understand it. They have been too deeply indoctrinated.

When the population of a group is over 1 billion, marrying within that group is not "in-breeding". In fact, even a few hundred people is a sufficiently large population to almost entirely avoid the effects of in-breeding.

Would be easier to grow legions of new workers in tubes than it would be to reverse the trend in our society for couples wanting to have less and less kids.

Gotta boost those birth rates.

Coulda bought a smaller house in a cheaper neighbourhood and a cheaper car. Or you could get a second job to get extra money while your fiance stays home (or the other way around, depending which of you is more likely to get more money). Or your parents or your fiance's parents could pitch in, since they no longer have kids to take care of in their own homes (or at least fewer than before, I assume). Or you could work really hard and try to persuade your boss to give you a raise. Or you could just see if you can work overtime on a regular basis. Or you could start a home business, or learn about the stock market and make extra money that way. Or you could take some education in the evenings that would get you a degree that would let you get a higher paying job. And daycare, come on, seriously, that's what grandparents are for ;p Now, I'm not specifically suggesting that you do any of the above, as I'm sure you and your family probably considered all kinds of options and I don't know nearly enough about the specific situation to offer useful advice, but imo, it is possible. I've seen it done first hand, not only in my own family but in others as well, and this is talking Vancouver, which is one of the most expensive cities to live in in North America.

Standards on how to do things tend to propagate themselves almost forever, long past when the original reason for them has long since ceased to apply: - Buttons on the cuff of a shirt? - Steering wheel on a car (like a navigation wheel on a ship) instead of a more intuitive control system. - The entire freaking english/imperial measurement system. - The division of an hour into 60 minutes and of a minute into 60 seconds. Why don't they have 100 minutes with 100 seconds each, with a second being 0.36x as long? Would make the math a lot easier, but an ancient civilization had a base 60 numerical system, and we've kept it for millenia. - Religion, lol. Some of the teachings sure could use an update to be more applicable 2000 years (or whatever length of time for any other religion) later. Just a few examples off the top of my head. Now I dunno whether the story in the original post is accurate, but it wouldn't surprise me. As an engineer, having to divide/multiply by 12 instead of 10 when designing things, because everything has to be in imperial units, because our machines are imported from the US, which uses the english system because it was originally an english colony, which has a ratio of 12 inches in a foot because one king had a bigger foot than the previous one, stories like this wouldn't surprise me at all.

Remind me not to ever ask you to go grocery shopping for me. I happen to prefer green apples, and like people to be able to pick them out. And yes, all humans are members of "the human race", or more correctly, the human species. That doesn't mean that subcategories within the human species cannot exist. Honestly if you claim that there's no difference whatsoever between a red apple and a green apple, and that you are completely unable to tell between the two, and are similarly unable to differentiate between two humans of different race (say a "black" and a "white"), then you are either blind or living in a fantasy world. That's all there is to it. Yeah I've noticed a lot of that in this thread too, and I think I'm slightly more concerned now then I was at the beginning of this thread. If Caucasians ever become a minority that is unable to defend itself, they're gonna be massacred.

Actually I do indeed have an idea of what it is to live like that. When we came to Canada, my mom didn't work, and my dad's salary started at around $60k a year (as a computer programmer) before increasing to a higher level after several years. No, you can't buy a big house in West Vancouver or anything like that, but you can live just fine. A single person can live just fine on $25k a year. I've lived just fine on $30k a year before, while being a student, and still managed to save some of that income in investments. If a person can't live on $47k a year by themselves, I really gotta wonder what they are trying to buy. People need to live within their means. Sure, for a family, a total income of $47k would be tough, but how many families are there where one income earner brings in $60k+ by themselves? I'd guess there are millions of such families in Canada, or at least hundreds of thousands. I think career ambition is a big part of it, perhaps not for the majority of the population, but for a substantial chunk of it. Of course, the desire to buy things that aren't really needed is another motivator. If people want to buy a $2 million dollar home in Vancouver for example, and buy 2 $80000 cars for their family, then yeah, they'll probably need two incomes, but there are ways to live without buying things like that.

Yes, because when you encounter a person in real life, the first thing you see is their gene sequence. While genetic differentiation between races may be minimal, how does that relate in the slightest or contradict the fact that there are very obvious physically visible differences? No one is trying to define races exclusively by their genes. When you go to a grocery store and see a pile of yellow apples, red apples, and green apples, do you care that genetically they are almost identical? Does their genetic similarity prevent you from being able to tell between the different "races" of apples? Would you argue that different types of apples do not exist, and that all apples are exactly interchangeable and identical? I'd guess that the answer is no.

It'd be pretty awesome if there was something after death. Wish I had some reason to believe that there is, besides wishful thinking.

Agree. I also think if you're gonna have kids, only to give em away to daycare and not raise them yourself, what's the point? Imo, it is optimal if one parent (the choice of which rests with any given family) stays home most of the time (could have a part time job maybe) and raises the kids, at the very least until the age when they start going to school. I also think it is possible in our current society to achieve this, assuming that the parents are willing. If the other parent (the one that remains working full time) is a professional, and the family is living in a reasonably fiscally prudent way, there's enough money to pull it off. I think the problem isn't so much that people can't afford to raise kids on just one salary, but more that very often these days both parents place a high importance on their career, and neither wants to put it on hold for years to raise kids.

ScottSA, dude, there are tons of benefits to immigration from many areas of the world. We get thousands of highly skilled workers coming in yearly, filling jobs that would otherwise be left unfilled. And of course there are tens of thousands of workers coming in for other jobs that don't require high qualifications. Growth is indeed important, especially in a country like Canada, which has so much room for growth. Having lived in Vancouver, I know dozens of first or second generation immigrants from China, Japan, Korea, Taiwan, etc, and every one of them is very much integrated into society, with excellent english, and with highly skilled professions (several doctors, several CMAs, research scientists, etc). Our country benefits greatly from the presence of such people. Why would you not want people of this caliber coming here? Canada, like the US, is a land of immigrants. Our society was built by people that immigrated here, and it can continue to benefit from more people immigrating here. As long as the immigrants that come here are productive, willing and able to accept Canadian culture, etc, then we do indeed benefit very much from their presence. Now, I do fully understand concerns about immigrants that are unproductive, unwilling to assimilate, or prone to violence, and that is why I think our immigration policy should be changed to be more selective. However, I'm definitely opposed to just shutting down immigration altogether.

How can you be so sure of that? It got to that point in Britain ( and other European countries) and we have a culture and government not very different from theirs. Also, the fact that immigrants from some particular cultures pose a higher risk doesn't mean overall immigration should be halted in its tracks. Immigration from many other areas of the world can be very helpful to Canada. Agreed. I mean even after 9/11, there weren't really any anti-Muslim "pogroms" in the US (far as I know).

Unfortunately, judging by the nature of the comments below that video, it seems like they are succeeding.