ScottSA

That's so gay I thinkit was the Pride Toronto slogan for 1998 Yep, back in the last millenium the feminization crowd pretty much had everyone convinced that prancing about in pink tutus was what real men did and that acting like men traditionally do was an acknowledgement of latent homosexuality. Silly, but thank God that was 1998 and not this millenium.

The exact quote of Brownlee referenced above is as follows: -- The Roman Catholic Religion viewed in the light of Prophecy and History, New York, Charles K. Moore, 1843, page 60. And later in the same work, -- page 97. Walter M. Montano, a former Catholic priest, asserts in his book, Behind the Purple Curtain that it has been estimated that fifty million people died for their faith during the twelve hundred years of the Dark Ages. (Citing Walter M. Montano, Behind the Purple Curtain, Cowman Publications, 1950, page 91.) What are you doing?

Has anyone seen Jimmy Hoffa lately? I kinda miss the guy...

I don't spose you'd be so good as to provide a link for this?

Hey lookee: he tapped out. I tapped out because you've resorted to snide flaming. You have in no way shown how 300 is anything other than a celebration of masculinity, and in fact have been shown that there is no mysogyny (the heroine was portrayed as heroic), there was no homoeroticism (your point that the Spartans were portrayed as masculine is in some way "homoerotic" is foolish and unsubstantiated), and you generally resorted to the streetcorner psychology of the last century to try to say that masculinity is really latent homosexuality). It was silly in the 80s and 90s and it's no less silly today.

If we want to split hairs, if anyone was implying anyone was gay, it was you. Actually, scratch that: you came out and stated that people who saw gay themes in 300 were expressing latent homosexual desires of their own. That you would poo-poo such amateurish psychoanalysis and then immediately engage in it yourself simply shows your own inconsistency. To recap: IYV, "upside down streetcorner psychology" is bad except when you use it. See, it's hard not to mock macho types when they get squirrelly over things like wearing pink shirts... ...or engage in reflexive misoginy. So limiting. Very lame.

Pink ....I have worn pink shirts for many years. In the 80s pink Lacoste were all the rage . And I ALWAYS get a manicure after the mud dive. (We are talking therapeutic mud baths arent we?) Nobody has called me gay. ..............at least not to my face. Do they only call you gay to the back of your head? *snicker* j/k

What can I say to willful ignorance like this? I'm sure it exists in some corners too. Like all across the headlines of every middle eastern newspaper every day.

Naw, you're in the vanguard of resurgent male pride. The feminization of society is on its way out. Pretty soon the whole ethos of the "sensitive man" will look as stodgy as hardbitten old feminists sitting around complaining that missiles are shaped like penises.

That is factually incorrect. Possibly) The Twenty (or so) Worst Things People Have Done to Each Other: Rank Death Toll Cause Centuries 1 55 million Second World War 20C 2 40 million Mao Zedong (mostly famine) 20C 3 40 million Mongol Conquests 13C 4 36 million An Lushan Revolt 8C 5 25 million Fall of the Ming Dynasty 17C 6 20 million Taiping Rebellion 19C 7 20 million Annihilation of the American Indians 15C-19C 8 20 million Iosif Stalin 20C 9 19 million Mideast Slave Trade 7C-19C []10 18 million Atlantic Slave Trade 15C-19C 11 17 million Timur Lenk 14C-15C 12 17 million British India (mostly famine) 19C 13 15 million First World War 20C 14 9 million Russian Civil War 20C 15 8 million Fall of Rome 3C-5C 16 8 million Congo Free State 19C-20C 17 7 million Thirty Years War 17C 18 5 million Russia's Time of Troubles 16C-17C 19 4 million Napoleonic Wars 19C 20 3 million Chinese Civil War 20C 21 3 million French Wars of Religion 16C annhilitation of the Native Indians 20,000,000 There weren't 20 million Indians in North America, so that number isn't on. And most of the deaths were from smallpox. According to any viable history book, Stalin killed 30 million in the Ukraine alone, and God knows how many more million on both sides of the war, so claiming "20 million" is a bit suspect.

Claiming that the holocaust was a result of atheism is perhaps equally absurd. But lets put the holocaust in perspective. There was deep seeded anti-semitism all throughout Europe at the time. This anti-semitism had its roots in the historical hatred Christians had for jews. What sort of historical revisionism would place the blame entirely on atheism, and ignore actual history. Whether or not Hitler was a genuine Christian or just a political opportunist is not really important. How Christians all over Germany and Europe came to detest jews, how they became a convenient victim of Hitler is far more relevant and certainly is far more related to christianity than anything to do with atheism. Andrew Now that is an argument with some merit. And you would more profitably point to various 19th century pogroms as evidence of it than try to paint Hitler as a Christian or as acting on behalf of Christianity. I would put this to you though: Anti-semitism has been alive and well in Islam as well. In fact the very genesis of Islam involves explicit anti-Semitism, and that anti-Semitism continues to this day in Islam. Yet Christianity hasn't sparked a pogrom in...well...a long time, anyway. And only the most fringe of fringe groups within Christianity would today adopt an openly anti-Semitic thesis, yet anti-Semitism is pandemic across all four schools of Islam and across the Sunni/Shia schism. Moral equivalency between the two just isn't on within the context of the current situation.

That wasn't so hard, was it. Now, the discussion went from that to a general discussion about machismo and homoeroticism... No, you tried to slide the argument in that direction, by implicitely calling me a homosexual, so I had to correct you a couple times. Now that I've redirected you to the point at hand, your response is to argue by fiat: simply claiming the movie is "gay". No its not.

A class action suit initiated against the Ustashe is proof that Hitler was Christian?

Looks like he became converted to atheism. Sounds exactly like todays atheists. "Christianity is an invention of sick brains," Adolf Hitler, 13 December 1941. http://www.davnet.org/kevin/essays/hitler.html Mistranslation. But the original German says, "Christianity teaches 'transubstantiation,' which is the maddest thing ever concocted by a human mind in its delusions, a mockery of all that is godly." The difference in meaning here is radical, and again shows how Genoud (hence the Trevor-Roper translation) has distorted Hitler's criticism of one form of Christianity (which implies he believed there was a true Christianity) into a thoroughly anti-Christian sentiment. http://ffrf.org/fttoday/2002/nov02/carrier.php Andrew Claiming that Hitler came to power as a Christian is just silly revisionism.

That is demonstrably false. It works all the time. For instance, that's why central and western Europe isn't fascist these days, and why the Asian Pacific seaboard isn't still part of the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere. You may not like the method, but you can hardly dismiss the results.

I would urge you to discard the sources you cite and read real history. Try "Hitler", by Ian Kershaw. It's considered the foremost biography on Hitler. It's written by an academic. Hitler, at a very early date, long before consolidating his power, played politics and told people what they wanted to hear. Remember, he came to power through a democratic system. As for the truth of what he claimed vis a vis Christianity, it holds about as much worth as what he claimed about Austria, the Sudetenland, the rest of Checkoslovakia, Poland or anything else. He jailed communists, Jews and Christians with the same degree of zeal.

Its a tiny fraction of a fraction of those killed by Hitler or Stalin.

Yes, I have a point. My point is that the movie is not homoerotic. Having apparently conceded that point, you seem to have moved on to an entirely different point: that historical Sparta itself was homoerotic. I agree, but that's not the point we were talking about a minute ago. The movie doesn't have anything to say about homosexuality, except for a scornful accusation that Athenians like bumming boys. Not being a homosexual, I wouldn't know if pedophilia is homoerotic, but I suspect the homosexual lobby doesn't publicly endorse it. So are we going to let the argument slip sideways into new territory, or are you going to just admit that the movie isn't in any way homoerotic?

Yes, wars often do that. In fact, I can't think of a single war since...well...the sack of Babylon...that DIDN'T raise the level of fear. Or, to put in it more appropriate intellectualeze, a "culture" of fear.

Iraq health care 'in deep crisis' More hospitals don't mean moore of better doctors, medicine, food, and other necessities. Nor does it mean the hospitals they have aren't struggling to cope with the carnage of civil war. From your link: In effect then, its not the state of healthcare, it's the level of violence.

It is when you use it as a perjorative. How else would one use it? It is inherently a perjorative, like "poopoohead" or "whelp", so you're in effect saying that any use of it is indicative of latent homosexuality. That's silly. But we're not talking about factual accuracy except insofar as you're trying to show that portaying Spartan armies consisting solely of men is in some way homoerotic. Lets try to focus on the point at hand.

That is factually incorrect.

Um... is that any different from your basement psychological analysis of reviewers? Anyway, you've got it wrong. It's not "distaste for homosexuality" that is indicatiove of latent homosexual urges. It's the simultaneous rejection of all things associated with women (for instance, using "effete" as a perjorative), celebration of "male" attributes and preference for the company of men (often in situations involving physical exertions). It's the total package. Not that there's anything wrong with that.... Using the term "effete" is a rejection of women? I didn't much notice a rejection of women in the film, and in fact I thought his wife was portrayed as rather an heroic figure, didn't you? The fact that Spartan armies didn't have equal gender opportunity doesn't exactly put it in a class by itself in the 5th century BC, does it? Good grief, this is fun! Next?

Let's see, the Inquisiton, the Crusades, Slavery, American expansion, I believe the last figure was 19/20 Natives were killed off. Atheism didn't kill those people, despotic rulers did. And all those people add up to maybe...maybe...ten million people. Not 100 million.

Absolutely untrue. Not even close. Even with a headstart, Christianity isn't anywhere near Islam in bodycount. Not even in the same league. The only religion that beats Islam is the atheism of Stalin, Hitler, Mao and assorted hangerson like Pol Pot and Che. Hitler was a christian! very much along the lines of today's 'fundamnetalist" christians I'll use some of his own words to demonstrate "Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith . . . we need believing people. [Adolf Hitler, April 26, 1933, from a speech made during negotiations leading to the Nazi-Vatican Concordant of 1933" supported religious schools!!! "I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator. " [Adolph Hitler, Mein Kampf, pp. 46] Just like GWB! He belives 'god ' talks to him and guides him also! (?????) " What we have to fight for...is the freedom and independence of the fatherland, so that our people may be enabled to fulfill the mission assigned to it by the Creator." [Adolph Hitler, Mein Kampf, pp. 125] well America fights for the "homeland"! "Woman's world is her husband, her family, her children and her home. We do not find it right when she presses into the world of men. [Adolph Hitler, quoted in Lucy Komisar, The New Feminism]" women in their place, as second rate citizens, sound familiar, religious right????? Make no mistake Hitler was a christian! The citations you offer are all from the 1920s and early 1930s, and none of them mention Christ, who after all is rather central to Christianity. Hitler never pretended to be a Christian, and any serious study of his life is quite clear that he was if not an atheist, then a mystical humanist. Hence the 'master race' and the Aryan superman and all that.