d4dev

Sully, I suggest you read a little bit about Israel's history. That's all I can say. You say that Palestinians hate Israel, and that's obvious. Israel was carved out forcibly from Arab land. Israel does not have a right to exist. At the time of the creation of Israel, and agreement was reached in which Palestinians were supposed to have their separate government, and the extent of the land that they would get was far more than what they are getting now. Israel later backtracked on all those agreements, tried to resettle the Palestinians by force, barricaded their lands, and killed their people. In my opinion, Hamas is not a terrorist organization, it is a freedom movement. We have been fed loads of Western propaganda all our lives. Every time a suicide bombing occurs, the news is flashed all over the media. But not so when Israeli soldiers kill a child, or maim a civilian. I urge you to find out the facts of the matter for yourself. Instead of relying on tv, search the internet and you will find things you never imagined would be true.

Oh man, you're like, have you read anything I have written above? When you said that foreign qualifications are not compatible with Canadian ones, I gave you examples of how people coming to Canada are first examined by professional associations and their degrees are verified. Only when the qualifications match Canadian standards, are they allowed to come into Canada. After saying all that, hoq the heck do you still keep saying that standards have to be lowered to accept foreign trained professionals???

This is modern imperialism. And unfortutely, no nation in the world has the guts to stand up to the US. The constituent states of the UN should have collectively imposed sanctions againts the US for circumventing the UN. Imagine, France, Germany, China, Russia, India, Brazil, Mexico and others, collectively imposing sanctions! That would have brought the US to it's senses!

Then how about killing of little children and civilians by the Israeli army? Hamas hijacking a commercial airline? When did that happen? In your dreams? Ummm, yes, that about sums it up.

Sully, after I read my earlier post, I thought that I may have been a little rude. I apologise if anyone here was offended. I challenge you to prove to me or give an example when even 1 legally admitted immigrant is any worse (in terms of qualifications/experience) to a Canadian grad. You don't seem to know that every immigrant with foreign qualifications has to first go through a process of requalification. For example, foreign engineers have to get their qualifications approved by the CCPE (Canadian council of Professional Engineers.) The same is true for all professions. So saying that foreign professionals are suitable only for the work enviournment in their country is wrong. Answer same as above. That's a valid point. However, for foreign professionals, it's a vicious cycle of denial. Since they don't have a job, they don't have Canadian experience, and because they don't have Canadian experience, they don't get a job. And I think that the government should make it easier for immigrants to get jobs in Canada then. Like making it easier for them to get certified by professional associations. In answer to your 'who are filling those positions', it's no one. That's why Canada is facing a shortage of skilled workers, that's why immigration is being allowed. Can't you see it? Immigration is being allowed because Canada is facing a skilled labour shortage. However, even after coming to Canada, their skills are not being put to good use. That is what all this is all about.

WTF is this? Have you missed what I've repeated over and over in my last 4/5 posts? which immigrants are you talking about? There are two kinds of immigrants. 1) Legal. 2) Illegal. Illegal immigrants do the things that you mentioned above. Legal immigrants are HIGHLY TRAINED PROFESSIONALS, they don't indulge in drugs or terrorism. And this topic is about legal immigrants, not illegal ones. And btw, you didn't answer my ealier question. Just as immigrants (illegal ones) would indulge in drug trafficking, even Canadian would. Then why would you deport only those immigrants, and not the Canadians? Why these double standards?

All that is taken care of the during the selection process of foreign candidates who apply for immigration. Immigration to Canada is a long drawn out process, which takes around 3-4 years to complete. In that time interval, background checks are conducted on the applicant, his qualifications are verified, tallied with Canadian qualifications and only then is he granted permanent resident status. The question is not about whose NOT telling them, it about who's going to tell them. It's very easy to be misinformed or uninformed about something. As I said earlier, it's not possible to find out the situation for yourself by actually coming to Canada.

Read this: http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentSe...ol=968350116795 And this: http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/.../BNStory/Front/ And this: http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentSe...ol=968350116795 I dont believe how easily we brush off this situation by casting doubt on immigrants' qualifications and competitiveness without any basis whatsoever.

How do you define 'best people'? And how the hell do you know that immigrants are not among the best people? Do you even know the selection criteria employed by the Canadian government when they allow immigrants to come in? Any Tom, Dick and Harry does not just come in. The foreign professionals that come in are very highly trained and have many years of experience. If you want to employ them in labour jobs after they come here, why market Canada abroad at all? Wow! How vague is THAT! No one is asking anyone to guarantee anything. The only thing that is being asked is that people be given a CHANCE to work in their own fields. Even that CHANCE is not being given. That's obvious. What you don't understand is that if we are talking about chances, there has to be a reasonable chance that an immigrant gets a job in his own field, just as there is a chance that he would not work in his own field. However, that resonable chance of him getting work in his own field is non-existent. Read this: http://www.statcan.ca/english/freepub/89-6...-XIE/labour.htm Do you know how this 4/10 figure is arrived at? Employment includes any job, regardless of your previous qualifications and experience. So if an engineer comes to Canada and after seeing the situation here, decides to work in a labour job just to survive, even that is counted as a job. So.... how's that? A 50 percent chance of having to work as a sweeper? This is what I was talking about. What is the government doing? This immigration thing is not just a one way process. IMMIGRANTS ARE ALLOWED COME TO CANADA PRECISELY BECAUSE CANADA NEEDS THEM. Its' not some social work that the government is carrying on. IF IMMIGRANTS' SKILLS ARE NOT UTILISED, THEY'RE NOT THE ONLY LOSERS. This is one part that I agree with you a bit. However, it is not possible for someone sitting in China to actually 'know' the situation in Canada. It is not possible financially for everyone to just pick up their baggage, and leave for Canada on a visitor's visa to find out the truth for themselves. Another load of crap. I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT REFUGEES, I'M TALKING ABOUT LEGAL IMMIGRANTS. THEY PAY TAXES JUST AS YOU DO. What crap are you talking? IF FOREIGN TRAINED IMMIGRANTS WEREN'T AS GOOD (ACTUALLY THEY ARE FAR BETTER) THAN CANADIAN GRADS, DO YOU THINK THEY WOULD HAVE PASSED THE SELECTION CRITERIA OF THE CANADIAN GOVERNMENT? Unless you believe that the government is bringing in trash from all over the world.

What BS is this? We all know that Canada is a land of immigrants. If your rule were to be applied, even ordinary Canadian criminals would have to be deported back to England and France.

Why doesn't the government make any effort then to make sure that immigrants are assimilated easily into Canadian society? It's just a blame game. No one wants to take responsiblity for this. And FYI, even after going through the process of getting 'Canadian certified', Canadian private and even government sectors prefer to hire people with Canadian education instead of these foreign professionals. On one hand, we proclaim that we are facing shortage of skilled professionals and on the other, we don't mind letting the skills of these foreign trained pofessionals rot.

What specifics do you want? Is it hard to understand that doctors, engineers, architects etc are doing labour jobs here? Haven't you met one or read about one? People who move here are moving here for the "CHANCE", not the guarantee of a better life. Just like Canadians who are born here and have higher degrees, that does not ensure you that you will have a job and nor should it. We are all in this together. Using the race card is just another excuse for a group who does not like to face the reality of the situation.

Until now, every political party has tried to win over immigrant votes (since there are so many of them), by promising them equal access to Canadian jobs, which gives them a chance to improve their lives. I assume all of us have heard of doctors working in Tim Horton's and immigrants having doctorates, that are driving taxis. It is this frustration with the Canadian government that is coming to the fore. Not just that, but when the government starts discriminating between it's own citizens by doling out second-class treatment to immigrants is what makes one's blood boil. All the people that are coming here are qualified professionals. Why should they be receiving this second-class treatment?

Why can't the government help everyone? Whose interest is the government sacrificing here? If there was a situation where the government had to save either the Canadian in Iraq or a dying sick child, I can understand your viewpoint. But that is not the case here. The government is not neglecting anyone else when it decides to save that man's life. Oh? So that's a problem of a welfare state, is it? What do you think the American government does when one of it's citizens is kidnapped abroad? Does it proclaim that since it is not a welfare state, the kidnapped person can go to hell? Oh c'mon, August, don't rake up imaginary issues just to bash the concept of a welfare state!

Why not? What about the 145 million Russians and the 1 billion Indians then? Or even us 30 million Canadians? Do our daily lives matter much? Or is it only American lives that matter?

Isn't the US an independant country? Do you think that every foreign policy decision that the US takes is first agreed upon by a referendum or something? I don't think that those 300 million Americans are relevant to this thread any more than the 1.2 billion Chinese.

Good plan. But the left in most countries (where they are in a minority) tend to remain fragmented. I don't know why!

What does it imply? That the Canadian government cares for the safety and well-being of it's citizens? Is that WRONG? The government is not a private company. It's job is not to make profits. It's job is to protect the well-being of it's citizens. Is that so hard to understand? And in case you're still thinking of your tax dollars, calculate how much of them have been 'wasted' by dividing the cost of bringing the Canadian back home by 30 million.

What is the government exactly doing in this regard? It is saving the man's life by bringing him back to Canada. It's not giving him a job or a million dollars or a car. The drunk you are talking about is already in Canada. What parallels exist between the two, I fail to understand. Doesn't matter if they go to Timbaktoo or Kalamazoo, they are Canadian citizens and it is the Canadian government's responsibility to take care of them.

That means that you view the Chinese occupation of Tibet as unlawful. In any case, I agree with you. But Chinese occupation of Tibet is not going to cease any time soon. (I wonder what the US is doing for 'freedom' and 'democracy' in that part of the world)

It is equally absurd to compare the management of countries to management of hockey teams. What aspect of a hockey team would compare to national defence? Or to the judiciary? Or public transport? It is quite easy to divert the topic by comparing something to something else which is basically uncomparable to it. It's more difficult to stay on course and refute the existing arguments.

True. Not atleast until it is forced to. And I think that the coming of these countries of age economically, and militarily will surely force the US to start thinking differently.

That terrorist definition would then include the US' invasion of Iraq, Israel's subjugation of the Palestinians, the Cold War, probably every conflict in the world today and in the past.

Does it make any difference? A citizen is a citizen is a citizen. It is utter selfishness on our part to think about our 'tax dollars' when someone's life is at stake.

That is very selfish thinking. The right thing to do is to put yourself in the victim's place and then think about wasting 'tax dollars'. In any case, if a person is a citizen of that country, and has fallen an innocent victim to circumstances, it is the responsibility of the parent country to rescue him. I don't see any debate in this.