Saturn

You can keep repeating it all you want but the fact is that they did do something on the environment. It wasn't much but it was something. The few GHG reduction programs they set up were the first programs Haprer cancelled when he got into office. The matter of fact is that they did so little just to please the West. Allowing the biggest polluters - oil and gas - to go nuts was one of the the liberal's ways of dealing with "western alienation". Oil and gas wanted the feds to get out of the oil business and so they did - Martin sold off our stake in PetroCanada. So what did they get for appointing westerners as the number 2 and number 3 people in government, for getting out of the way of oil and gas and for letting oil and gas pollute like crazy? Did they even get a single thank you? No, all they got was a kick in the rear. Well, they are smart enough to learn that appeasing oil and gas and having westerners run government doesn't pay - it only hurts them elsewhere in the country. Now they know that there is nothing they can do to deal with western alienation, instead of banging their heads in the western alienation wall, they can put more effort into other priorities that are possible to deal with - like Kyoto. It's a bit late but it's not too late yet.

Don't twist the issue. The liberals had some intention to deal with Kyoto but they were trying to kiss Albertan ass and appease the poluters which was a stupid move and a lost cause anyway. It was a bad strategy because it only got them in trouble but they've learned their lesson. Canada had a poor environmental record but there was willingness to deal with the problem and other countries were supportive and trying to help (because pushing too hard could have backfired - as Harper just learned from his chinese fiasco). The conservatives on the other hand, are fully intentionally doing absolutely nothing about our emissions (and given the polluters a green light) but are also trying to sabotage the Kyoto agreement altogether by starting renegociations and pushing countries that have a hard time or internal pressures against limiting emissions to take Canada's lead and destroy Kyoto altogether. That's why Rona became the most despised person at the summit and Canada got into the international media in a very bad way. Claiming that it happened because of some bias in the media is disingenous.

ANY Canadian that votes for the Liberals based on environment doesn't have the mental capacity to vote. Does no one remember the record the Liberals have on environment? How emissions skyrocketed faster than ever before, how toxic waste sites increased and how more reserves than ever (well, since the white man came) don't have drinking water? People are going to vote for the Liberals on environment why? What are they doing different this time? Nothing!! How easily people are convinced by empty rhetoric... The liberals may do little on the environment but the conservatives are doing absolutely nothing and have made it clear that they will never move a finger while our environment is ravaged by their friends. When it comes to choosing the lesser of two evils, the liberals are definitely it. What's that their are at least 2 other parties besides the liberals and conservatives in Canada? Who and those two other parties actually have an enviromental agenda? Jeez sounds like if you care about the enviroment than stop acting like we livein a two party system. The other two parties have no hope in hell in ever replacing the conservatives. Supporting them is nothing but a wasted vote and the equivalent of support for Harper. The liberals aren't my first choice but they are quite an improvement over Harper and I'd rather have them than be stuck with him. Actually, that's what a lot of people are finally getting and consequently Dion won't get elected - Harper will get kicked out by people who would otherwise vote for a third party but would rather get rid of him.

Actually, that's a good point. Why is it that no seats in Alberta is not a national party, but no seats in Toronto, Vancouver or Montreal is? There's almost as many people in the GTA as Alberta, so what makes Alberta a "region" but not Toronto? (or Vancouver & Montreal) The Tories have seats in the GTA and Vancouver. The only place that's an issue is Montreal. The GTA has twice the population of Alberta. To say that the tories have seats in Toronto is like saying that the NDP have seats in Alberta cause they have some in BC. Also, the only reason they have a seat in Van is because they bribed Emerson to join them. Besides, Montreal has the population of Alberta and if you can say that a party without a seat in Alberta is not a national party, you'll have to admit that this implies that a party without a seat in Montreal is not a national party.

Not a single vote? Ha! Your hyperbole is amusing. Maybe not in Toronto, but Ottawa is Urban... as is the fact that the CPC won almost all suburban (those people work downtown Van city) Vancouver. Much better anyways than a party that has one seat across 4 million population representing 13% of the total population and 16% of the national GDP. That's Saskatchewan and Alberta by the way. And TO, Van, and Montreal represent a third of the population and half of the economy. It's the first time in the history of the country that a sitting prime minister had to bribe a political opponent and appoint an unelected friend just so that his party could have some representation in urban Canada. Hmmm... when that's all you hear from the East, it's hard not to return the favour every once and awhile. The Conservatives also weren't the policy with campaign organizers claiming they were going to 'screw the west, we'll take the rest'. Albertans crowned swine "Let the Eastern bastards freeze in the dark" Klein king for 14 years. Of course you couldn't care less about where your social welfare programs, economic growth and jobs come from. And that's why your party of choice will never win a seat in Alberta, especially not Calgary where they haven't done so since the '60's. Zero appreciation, in fact, condemnation for what we do. If Quebec got the treatment Alberta does, they'd be gone long ago. Dude, that's where our jobs are going because you are ripping us off with that oil of yours. You are not creating jobs, you are killing jobs elsewhere in the country. Not to mention poisoning our air. You can't screw others and expect us to be thankful for it. You don't just get respect, you have to earn it. Paying a few bucks into equalization doesn't compensate the rest of the country for the harmful side effects of your "boom". As far as I am concerned, Alberta is more harmful than beneficial to the country. Your arrongance is intolerable and you can't pay anyone enough to tolerate it. Just take your money and your attitudes and separate already!

Western Canadian voters will never be satisfied - especially Albertans. Even if Dion crawls on the floor, kisses their feet and gives them everything they claim they want, they will still hate the Eastern bastards. Hopefully Dion is smart enough to know that and he won't try to waste his time with westerners (like that fool Martin did. Or Mulroney). See, westerners have nothing to offer and hopefully Dion will concentrate his effors where it matters - Ontario, Quebec and the Atlantic provinces. If he does, Harper will be gone in no time. Westerns have nothing to offer! Heh! Try paying your own way in the Roc... oh that's right, you couldn't... Btw, 10% of the population may be enough to elect 1 Green MP but it isn't a whole lot more than that. Your the typical example of the 'screw the west, we'll take the rest' mentality of Trudeau on. That's why the Liberals are the regional party now and the CPC is the only, that's right, only national party in Canada. Elect a guy in Alberta or your not a Canadian party, bottom line. 10% of the population isn't PEI or the Yukon, it's a sizeable chunk of people and a very sizeable chunk of contribution to the coffers (and job market). Hehe... the only national party in Canada is a party of greedy hicks who can't see further than a foot ahead of them. That's why the "only national party in Canada" doesn't have a single vote in urban Ontario, Montreal or Vancouver. Albertans are the prime example of how rigid conservatives are and how useless it would be do anything for them. Because normal people appreciate a nice thing but in Alberta all you can get is a kick in the rear for doing a nice thing. All Albertans can appreciate is the vulgar "humour" of swine Klein. See, if Albertans were capable of some sort of civil interaction they would be welcome but given that all they can do is curse and swear at you and talk down because they consider themselves "rich", you are way better off showing them the door. Now get over this arrogant bull about buying your way into this and that because it doesn't get you anywhere. If you think that you make friends by being an arrogant rich bitch, then you are very very wrong. Especially when you are barking at people who couldn't care less about your money. Ok? Btw, 10% of the population may be enough to elect 1 green MP but it isn't a whole lot more than that, so don't overestimate your importance. Especially when there isn't a single seat at play in Alberta, you can't expect anyone to take you very seriously.

Not unless he also happened to be an MD, specializing in surgery. But your description doesn't really fit Suzuki. It doesn't really matter if he has a PhD, or what it's in. He has also been involved in environmental issues for a long time, and that makes him more qualified than just about any politician I have seen. Are there people with more experitse on the environment than Suzuki? Perhaps. Does Suzuki have more expertise than a typical politician? You bet. Agreed. But he's an arrogant radical. When I hear a practical solution from him, I'll listen. I miss the days when he was about science and not activism, when his show the nature of things was a fantastic watch. Pfff. What do you know about science? For you everything is about money and your "standard of living" (whatever that is). If science helps you make money it's great, and if it doesn't it's a hoax.

What's wrong with a politcian taking ideas from an expert on the subject? Don't most politcians consult experts, and if so why the heck not? Who is going to know more about the environment, a politician or a scientist who has dedicated his career/life to the environment? No, the current government consults the oil and gas industry on environemental policy. Why the hell would you consult scientists on the environment when you can consult the biggest polluters in the county instead?

You are absolutely correct. Again, the MO of rightwingers is to complain about the media. The reality is the media has been examining Dion and the supposed "divisions" in the Liberal party pretty thouroughly. I've heard/read LOT'S in the media about how Dion has such a big challange ahead in Quebec and in his own party. Saying the media has been "fawning" over him us pure dishonest partisan hackery. Of course it is. The right-wingers' MO is to repeat the same lie ad nauseam until they are convinced it's true. As if repeating the same thing a thousand times eventually makes it true. Pfff.

Ya, Harper actually kicks out people when they ask uncomfortable questions. Than he shuts them out altogether. Turner and Chong are like fish out of water too - can't be that nice to sit in the nosebleed section.

Your arrogance is quite astonishing. I suppose you are the barometer on what English Canadians think. It's real nice of you to let us know what we think.

ANY Canadian that votes for the Liberals based on environment doesn't have the mental capacity to vote. Does no one remember the record the Liberals have on environment? How emissions skyrocketed faster than ever before, how toxic waste sites increased and how more reserves than ever (well, since the white man came) don't have drinking water? People are going to vote for the Liberals on environment why? What are they doing different this time? Nothing!! How easily people are convinced by empty rhetoric... The liberals may do little on the environment but the conservatives are doing absolutely nothing and have made it clear that they will never move a finger while our environment is ravaged by their friends. When it comes to choosing the lesser of two evils, the liberals are definitely it.

Western Canadian voters will never be satisfied - especially Albertans. Even if Dion crawls on the floor, kisses their feet and gives them everything they claim they want, they will still hate the Eastern bastards. Hopefully Dion is smart enough to know that and he won't try to waste his time with westerners (like that fool Martin did. Or Mulroney). See, westerners have nothing to offer and hopefully Dion will concentrate his effors where it matters - Ontario, Quebec and the Atlantic provinces. If he does, Harper will be gone in no time.

Ah, shut up! CTV and friends endorsed Harper in the last election. Do you expect anyone to take your left-wing media rant seriously? The amount of coverage for the two conventions was exactly the same. Just get over it.

From Calgary or not, Ralph is an obtuse, xenophobic drunk, who can barely make a sentence that's longer than 3 words. That's what Albertans need - someone of average intelligence would make them feel uncomfortable, like he is trying to be a smartass talking down to them. Ed will fit in perfectly in that respect. I hope that at least he is not a swine like Ralph.

NATO is not to be taken seriously. Canada got next to nothing at the last meeting. That will become all too clear in the next months when we watch the rest of Europe run from its commitments. Why should NATO be taken seriously in this case? NATO was never serious about Afghanistan in the first place - it was all hype by the Americans who didn't take it seriously either. Afghanistan is a lost case any way you look at it and the Europeans aren't as stupid as we are to get their soldiers killed for nothing.

Farmers will get what they vote for. If reopening the gay marriage debate is more important to them than farming, then that's what they are going to get.

Add to that raising income taxes, Rona, gaffes on the international stage and giving multi-billion dollar military contracts to conservative insiders...I guess he can't lose much time stuffing his friends' pockets cause he's going to be out the door in a few months.

My point exactly. Ipsos-Reid always overestimates the conservative numbers - it's not the other way around.

Blah, blah. Ipsos-Reid is more of a conservative think-tank than a polling company. They consistently overestimate the popularity of the conservatives and are always at the head of the supposed jump in popularity of the conservatives a week before the election (which always turns out to be far too optimistic when the real poll comes).

Kind of like Toronto....... Honestly, if the PM's from Alberta, the province of Alberta can't be that irrelevant. As for the sheep comment, if politician's piss Albertan's off they'll leave for another party, don't you remember the 93 election. Except that's not going to happen in the next election. You are just going to vote for Harper and that's it. The PMs from Alberta are not irrelevant but they know they don't have to deliver anything to get re-elected. Kind of like the liberals from Toronto didn't do a thing for Toronto because they knew they would just get re-elected. Except they didn't get it quite right and lost a few seats to the NDP in the last election. And who are you going to vote for if Harper pisses you off? The NDP?

Hello? And what is Alberta? A bunch of rural Ralphs (are you saying Ralph is not rural?). That's what Albertans need - a mumbling xenophobic drunken villager who will burn gays alive and will give away their oil to Dallas. That's what they've had for over a decade now, that's what they want more of.

Dobbhin, once again you divert attention from the question at hand. Is this how you write your screenplays or lead your life? By diverting attention?Look, Michael Wilson and Brian Mulroney were out of power for 13 years. When Chretien's Liberals have been out of power for 13 years, then maybe your attempt to change the subject might be relevant. In the meantime, you are making an awkward move at a pre-wedding dinner. Betsy raised a very good point. Kennedy was the only candidate who raised the obvious problem of a need to renew the federal Liberal Party - Trudeau Jnr even joinged Kennedy on the point. What did kennedy get for all this? Fourth Place. The federal Liberals do not believe they did anything wrong. They are the party of power. The people working at the CBC and other Liberal activists believe that all is back the way it was before this bad dream of Adscam and Paul Martin. Dion will talk about the environment and everything will be as it was before. Listen to the CBC news. They'll gush. And who is going to get them elected? Harper will. Because he's turned out to be worse than many people imagined. They will have to vote for the Liberals just to get Harper's arrogant ass out of office. Dion will have Harper to thank for a liberal minority after the next election.

Or Harper can make it easy for them, which he seems to be working really hard on.

You see, this is what being a smug, arrogant Liberal means: You live in a fantasy world where the bills never have to be paid, the whole world loves you, and anyone (or even any province) that doesn't worship you is evil and irrelevent. It's the world of the spoiled "gimmie-gimmie" children without a thought in the world for anyone but themselves. Nah, wrong! Alberta will vote in one way and one way only, which is what makes it irrelevant. It is the spolied, full of hate Albertans who have put themselves out of the game. Because you see, Harper knows you'll vote for him so he won't care and Dion knows you won't vote for him, so he won't care either. It's your own fault you all vote the same way like a herd of sheep - irrelevant!