jefferiah

I did not find myself in agreement with KO2 very often. And alot of things he said were madness, but I think he was a lot smarter that alot of us gave him credit for as well. Some things he said, or even the unique way he put them, while I did not agree with it, showed a very sharp intellect.

I never asked you to welcome him. I think Jazzer commented on your welcome. But it wasnt necessary to use him as an example in your post. If you don't feel the need to welcome him, dont. You can do so without making a personal attack. Now back to the original topic, I was not saying that the Jewish girl was bad. You know as everyone pointed out it was nothing more than a "schoolyard" squabble, but neither do I think she was acting in defense of her country. Or that it deserved a big woohoo. This is why I agreed with Geoffrey. What was there to cheer about? I am not putting you down big time for cheering either the way KO2 did. You are right. By law the Palestinian girl was not supposed to be there. So if there was a soldier there it would have been taken care of by him. No schoolyard squabble was necessary. Now I dont think this schoolyard squabble is an example of some Israeli oppression of Palestinians either, if that is the idea you are getting. In multiple threads I have defended Israel. Is it a terrible thing that happened?....no! But I dont think its exactly an example of Israel defending itself. It was a "schoolyard" squabble. It may be that there is much more to it than that as well, Mike. Perhaps the Palestinian girl said something to set her off....but the video does not indicate. Xul's being here may have a good effect on you.

Way to welcome him to this forum. You've outdone yourself. But you see that's just it. I'm not being fair anymore. It is not Xul's right of passage in life to come to Canada. And everyone will say 'well Xul and his family should be able to share in what is Canada' blah blah. But I take an economic point of view. Him coming here and using our services is what is killing us. It's the reason our healthcare, infrastructure and schooling are messed up beyond repair. We are even running out of power and the net economic gain of for each person is *decreasing* year by year. I don't give a damn about his experience of Canada. Good he can visit if he wants, but to live here for good? We simply do not NEED HIM here! If we did, then I'd welcome him. If Xul isn't going to help me, or other Canadians, then I do not want him here. It's nothing personal against him, it's just that he's a real world tangeable example that we can all relate to. I'd like to hear his story of who he is and why he's coming. I'd like to hear the whole story, age, kids, wife. what his plans are. And when he tells his story, you will see that there is simply nothing for him here. Basically, the only person who benefits from Xul coming here is his family. Not me, not you. Just him... .. and the Liberal Party of Canada of course. (which is the real reason he's even allowed to come). Well lets say that you are right about your immigration ideas, and if those policies were in place, Xul would in fact not be here. Immigration is not an area I pay much attention to, so I dont know. But look, the laws that are in place right now have allowed Xul to come. If you were in China and wanted to come to Canada, would you not do the same thing...or would you think "Ah, jeez, I cant bring myself to move to a great country where I am legally allowed to emigrate, Mike David doesnt want me there."? If Tim Hortons were giving out free coffee and donuts tomorrow Id be there in a second. So look, Xul is here cuz the laws are what they are, so why do you have to make a personal insult against him. And also if those laws were changed he would have moved here before the change. So look it will do no good to dwell on it and blame Xul for taking advantage of something he is allowed to do. As far as I can tell he hasnt done anything to you so why single him out to attack him. I agree with you in a lot of areas. I agree that Canada should not bend over backwards to change its own majority/culture to make Muslims happy, etc,etc. I agree with a lot of these things. But what has this to do with Xul. You are being quite rude.

That's what you don't understand, there are no civilized solutions when you are dealing with uncivilized people. The solution is very simple - you do not come to Canada unless an employer sponsors you. You may not sponsor in family members. If you are not working, you must leave immediately. You may not come as a student becuase our schools are now only for Canadians. There are also a list of countries of origin which you may not come. This includes Pakistan and Samolia. The problem is now solved. Remember that 9-11 happened because of America's weak student visa policy. Nothing else. This summer there is said to be terrorists trying to come into the US. Each day there are visitors coming out of the air port from Pakistan. The US allows this. I'm shocked and amazed that an old Pakistani coworker of mine had friends from Pakistan that got granted student visas in Texas. I was just amazed how they can let people from recognized terrorist states into the US. That is the REAL reason there will be another attack. Put all the other stuff aside. I'm sorry, I cannot feel sorry for the US if they get attacked again. I'm saying this now. Anyhow, Xul in this case would not be coming to Canada. I really don't know what he and his kids and family will be doing here beside using welfare state (schooling, roads, medical etc). We know he'll be doing that (as stats prove so don't argue me on that). I just don't see the point of him and his family coming here. It's simply not needed here in Canada. And he knows it too. He's not dumb, he reads the chinese immigration forums and knows what to expect when he comes. We're being taken advantage of as a country by people like Xul and the other 800,000 waiting to come here. Edit: I just wanted to add that these things 'aren't nice' and 'sound harsh' but you know what, I'm just not being nice and 'fair' anymore. Ideally, yes you must discuss things in order to reach a resolution and move ahead. But you can't discuss things with 2 year olds. You have to wait until they grow up, then you can discuss things. The stonage have a lot of growing up to do. They can only grow up in their own countries. Sadam would have fallen eventually by a civil backlash. It would have happened eventually. If not him then his sons. But we needed to let that happen naturally. Until then, yes, let's do business with them, but for God's sake - KEEP THEM OVER THERE. STOP BRINGING THEM HERE! Well, you probably could have expressed that opinion, Mike, without bringing Xul into it.

And also January can be pretty cold, even though there is the presence of some relative amount of heat.

Maybe the idea they are putting forth is that race is "relative" (hmm sort of a double meaning there maybe). Temperature is neither hot nor cold, its just different degrees of heat. But nonetheless aside from the relativity of races, I am sure the people making that point would have no trouble picking out what Scott means by a white person. And if they can see it, that means they can discriminate as well. By this I dont mean "discriminate" by treating someone badly because of the color, but to distinguish.

No surprise there. So now I will call "bullshit" on your attempts to assert "to each his own". You don't believe that at all. You just say that when it is convenient to do so and ignore it when you want to make it your business. Like I said, no surprise. I only choose the 'same-sex marriage' example as the most clear cut way to show that your assertion of "to each his own" was pure bullshit. You don't mind your own business. You make it your business to interfere with others. Typical double-talking hypocritical theist. Eh? Can't you read? Or did you conveniently overlooked this? I said: What? It's not enough that I respect the new right that they have? Do I have to change my belief to make you guys happy? You gotta be kidding me! Anyway...whatever. Bullshit away to your heart's content until the cows come home.... If that's how you understand it...hey, what can I say. C'est la vie. Mike you seem to be saying that "tolerance" does not just mean tolerating what another does but condoning it. I am not sure where Betsy stands on same-sex marriage, but there is no double talk in what she says. She is not stopping same sex marriages. Therefore she is allowing "to each his own", but that does not mean she has to condone it. Not condoning an action does not mean you are interfering with it.

Well, good for you! If your god is the jug of milk....hey, to each his own! I think I'll pray to my jug of milk for you to develop a sense of humour. Thank you. ha see....prayer does work

I understand the arguments saying that race doesnt exist. I am not sure either way, nobody has compelled me to any conclusion on that matter, but I think it is extremely wrong to jump to the conclusion that the idea of different races within humanity is the reason for racism. Is it not possible to see people as being of different races as being equal---if in fact you believe there are different races? I think that if you truly believe in the non-discriminated, you can also understand the discriminated without being caught up by ideas of what is more valuable. If you understand this you can say there are different races and there is one race without contradicting yourself. I can discriminate between broccoli and carrots, but it does not mean I think one has more inherent worth than the other.

What about sugar, vinegar and mustard powder?

My wife can transform baby pork ribs into a nirvanna like pleasure..... Well, I'll be over later then.

And yes Bonam the comments run for pages and pages, and a great deal of them are disturbing, and very very anti-Jewish

no one is saying it was a great evil, just that it is nothing to cheer on.

That was the point I was making. Was I not clear enough? I was pointing out the hypocrisy of those who pretend shock and horror at the actions of the vicious Jew in the video. The video was a catfight, because it took place in Israel. It would have been a callous rape and murder had the situations been reversed and had the event taken place in so-called "Palestine." That doesn't make a catfight proper, but when juxtaposed against a rape and murder, one hopes it comes out looking relatively harmless. I've seen far worse catfights on highschool playgrounds. If person see a policeman beating a old woman in a street, he will be more horror than he see a criminal beating a old woman. That doesn't mean that he is hypocrisy to the policeman. This is caused that a policeman is usually to be considered as a "civilized people" but a criminal is not. I kind of like your use of English. You are doing a good job, and you will improve but nonetheless the parts which you havent gained full command of also show a creativity of their own, or perhaps a tendency to use Chinese rules of language applied on English. I am not sure. Either way its good. And I think you will keep improving and improving. And someday you might be able to correct our grammar for us. I was reading two different transaltions of Lao Tzu's Tao Te Ching and I remember a certain line in both texts which differed greatly. I cant quote them directly but I'll give it a shot. One text said something like this "I am kind to the good man. I am also kind to the bad man." The other said ....."The good man, I good him. The bad man, I good him too." I like that second one.

Was this a rhetorical question? Afterall, why would I want to impose restrictions on the physiological features of her children. If she wants to have blond children, who are we to dictate what is right or wrong. My partner and I often discuss what traits we would want in our own children. This is a free country. Celebrate it. On the flipside, it is the extrapolation of these policies on a wider scale which unnerve me, especially keeping in mind my place of birth and my physiology as it brings back shadowy historical events and the fear that this could bring us down a slippery slope. I can understand that concern. But I honestly dont think they are planning to attack anyone else, or that preserving blondes is about preserving some superior genetic lineage....just the idea that "hey someday there might be no blondes left". I am not blonde, but I would like there to be blondes in the future. I am not concerned about it happening, but oh well. Yes, hmmm, I am sure someone like Hitler would have had this desire in common with Kimmy, but that desire in itself and the overall motivations may not be entirely the same. A is not necessarily B.

hmmm well the degree of suspicion which is warranted is dictated by the times you live in. for instance i live in a lobster fishing village. a few years ago there were a lot of disputes between individual fishermen in the community i live in, and fishermen of the neighbouring community. not all fishermen from either community were involved. but the DFO rounded up the innocent with the good for questioning when there began to be instances of "fishing warfare".....traplines being cut...etc. now drea i find your comment very interesting because unlike betsy who always wondered about that incident, you just claimed that a suspicion of yours is irrefutable truth-----that Betsy would go to CSIS. Where is the benefit of the doubt?

She never automatically assumed anything, but she said she always wondered about it. If she had assumed it to the paranoid degree you are accusing her of, I am sure she would have filed a report. The fact that she never filed a report or anything like that suggests to me that despite the fact that she may have had suspicions (which I am sure you have as well, and everyone else for that matter---how we deal with them is what matters) she did give them the benefit of the doubt.

She never automatically assumed anything, but she said she always wondered about it. If she had assumed it to the paranoid degree you are accusing her of, I am sure she would have filed a report.

Hmm it doesnt sound to me as if she was simply judging them because they were Muslims, but because they were making her uncomfortable berating her about working for Americans and such. She never said something was definitely up, she said she had a strong feeling about it. Sometimes when you get a bad feeling about things, you stay away. Whats wrong with that? A few years ago Drea I was living in a small city where there seemed to be a spree of Tim Hortons' being robbed. I would take the bus to work, and there was a bus stop right across the street from where I worked so I had never had to ring the bell. The bus stop was one of those enclosed benches and it was right at the end of a Tim Horton's parking lot. So if you can picture it in your head, there was a Tim Hortons across the street from where I worked. And on the same side of the street as my place of employment, and right beside my place of employment, there was a little shopping mall with a Tim Hortons in the food court. On breaks we had a choice between two Timmies we could walk to within a minute. The stores in the mall would close early but the food court would remain open at nights because they got business from the workers on breaks from nearby buildings. One night we were having break at the Tim Hortons in the empty mall, and shortly after we left it was robbed at gun point. The security guards may have been in another section of the mall at the time. I dont know what happened exactly. This story is sort of a side-line to my main one, but anyways there were alot of Tim Hortons thing going on at the time. About this time, one day as I got off the bus at the other Tim Hortons establishement, the one across the street from my work, a young fellow....well probably my age....called out to me from the little bus stop bench. It was 4 pm in the afternoon, and he said "Hey Buddy, psst come here for a second." I went over and he started asking me questions about the Tim Horton's whose parking lot he was sitting in. "What time do they close?" "11 P.M.," I answered. Then he began to ask a few more questions about and I began to get a strange feeling about it. So I said "Sorry I have to go. Time for work." There was no real evidence of anything, but I always kind of wondered about it. Was this guy planning to rob the Tim's? I dont think it was robbed any time thereabouts to my knowledge, but nonetheless, why would this fellow care about what time they closed and other things, when it is 4 pm. If he wants a coffee he can go get one now. Anyhow, is my "I wonder" deserving of a tin foil hat? Is it so unforgiveble? The person was caucasian, but suppose he had been black....would that make my suspicions a case of racial paranoia?

Hmm it doesnt sound to me as if she was simply judging them because they were Muslims, but because they were making her uncomfortable berating her about working for Americans and such. She never said something was definitely up, she said she had a strong feeling about it. Sometimes when you get a bad feeling about things, you stay away. Whats wrong with that?

First of all the Eucharist is a "Christian" rite and is practiced by all denominations, not exclusively Catholic. Second Communion was not presented as a symbolic reference to God. Jesus told His disciples to eat bread and drink wine as a symbolic reference to His body and his blood. That is a form of symbolic cannibalism. All the rest of your response is nonsense goblty gook. I can't get over theists who contradict the doctrine of God. I never said that the Eucharist was not practiced by other denominations, Posit. What I did say was that the Catholics believe that the bread and wine are transformed into the body of Christ by the priest, which is not very symbolic is it? Jesus did tell his disciples to eat bread and wine but I dont think he would have gone so far as to actually ask them to eat his actual crucified body, so the idea of "eating" God is a symbol in itself. God nurtures us, Posit, is the sentiment, and free of charge, freely giving of himself. When Jesus compares the kingdom of heaven to a farmer seperating weeds from the good at the end of the age.....or to fish in a net....do you analyze it so far as to think that God is planning to eat us? Hmmm think of a tree that bears fruit. When the fruit has become ripe it is free for the taking. The deer comes along and can eat the apple. Food is something which sustains life. God sustains life.

Scott, your comment about your fear of being treated badly as a minority was a valid one and I was satisfied. But...... Attack whites? You cannot be serious? Because I don't want to group all Caucasians under one banner, or protect all white folk more than any other folk does not mean I am attacking them. However, now it is you who is attributing comments to myself. I have always supported a merit based incentive program, but I guess even that is beyond you. I won't even bother. On that note, I forfeit. By touting equality guess I am but a race traitor brainwashed by the godless-hippie-pinko-liberal-commie-islamofascist-homosexual Hollywood elite. What do I know. We understand that, Marcinmoka. Do you understand that Kimmy wanting to keep blondes in existence is not necessarily demoting equality, either? Is equality only possible by being one color? It is certainly not impossible. But still.....

That was the point I was making. Was I not clear enough? I was pointing out the hypocrisy of those who pretend shock and horror at the actions of the vicious Jew in the video. The video was a catfight, because it took place in Israel. It would have been a callous rape and murder had the situations been reversed and had the event taken place in so-called "Palestine." That doesn't make a catfight proper, but when juxtaposed against a rape and murder, one hopes it comes out looking relatively harmless. I've seen far worse catfights on highschool playgrounds. I dont think he is saying that what was happening in the video is any worse than what happens in Palestine. He seems to be saying that people attacking a girl (for reasons we dont understand because the video doesnt make it clear) is nothing to necessarily cheer about either. Perhaps the girl was causing trouble. I really don't know. But I don't see why we would cheer it on. If the girl was causing trouble and they pushed her out in defense of Israel....well sure then its reasonable. I am an Israel supporter and when it comes to defending themselves in the middle east when they are constantly attacked by others, I am not going to pass judgement on them, but nonetheless even when battle is necessary it is an act of sorrow. Was David happy when his rebel son Absolom met his end? A fellow poster named JBG used to have a Golda Meir quote to end his posts that said something to the effect of "We can forgive you for killing our sons, we can't forgive you for making us kill yours."

Good point, namesake. I dont know if you could call this Israel defending itself. I am an Israel supporter as well, but I dont see what this isolated incident has to do with it. Then again, I dont even know the full story. But neither does anyone else.

Another thing I might add is that for Kimmy or Scott the idea of finding a person of the same race to be a partner and procreate with does not necessarily suggest that they are bending over backwards to indulge some superficiality. We are all allowed to indulge superficialities to the point where they are not compulsions and making our lives difficult. I am sure that there are enough reasonable white men for Kimmy and reasonable white women for Scott that neither should really be contorting themselves and there lifestyles over a superficiliaty. Take for instance two men who like to wear blue shirts. They both always buy blue shirts at the store. Now one day they both lose their blue shirts. (They only own one shirt at a given time) They both head down to the blue shirt store to buy some clothes. The blue shirt store is closed, but across the street the red shirt store is opened. One man says to himself "well you know I know there is no meaning really to blue shirts but i do like to wear them anyway, but what the hay ill go buy a red shirt" The other man says "I need my blue shirts". And then breaks into the blue shirt store. The first guy is not really doing anything bad in indulging a superficiality, cuz he is only doing it within reason, and beyond that he understands that there is really no meaning to blue shirts but that there is no reason not to buy them when they are readily available and thats what he wants.