theloniusfleabag

Dear Hugo, I tend to agree with you here. Afghanistan has been an example of this for centuries. No one has been able to occupy (and unify) Afghanistan for about 500 years, I think.As to the debate about 'Anarchy' being a viable alternative, I suggest you take that to another thread. I'd be happy to go there and rend it asunder.

Dear maplesyrup, I do recall some debate about the force that was used in the pie incident. I seem to recall that the pie was 'shoved' rather than 'thrown' into Klein's face. It is claimed by Klein that the force used was excessive. Further, in this day and age, who knows what that pie could contain? Protest through the medium of physical contact should be disallowed. That also should go both ways (If you'll remember Chretien throttling a protester recently).

Dear Hugo, I actually never thought of a stadium, I was thinking of one's own backyard. Once the bullet leaves the yard, it enters public domain, and then, the world of law. It seems that you think any sort of law assumes the excesses of totalitarianism ala Hitler and Stalin. "Today its speed limits, which means tomorrow its the gas chamber". Not if you win. Besides, this is the essence of property ownership. Choosing to stay in a country and abide by it's laws is a form of voluntary acceptance of those laws. As to Anarchy, there is nothing more base (and foolish) than to say, "every man for himself, no laws or guidelines save what you impose on yourself".

Dear August1991, This quote is from AP, I believe. I fail to see how Mr. Blair and Mr. Bush can entertain the notion that 'elections' are going to be a major blow to those that have a different interpretation of 'law'.

Dear Big Blue Machine, For some reason, I had previously thought you were a male. In fact, sex before anything sounds good to me. You must be one of those 'late-bloomers' who hasn't, even yet, discovered what it feels like to 'touch' one's self.

Dear August1991, Yes, it could be worse, it could be 'The French'!The point of all of this, besides the questioning of legal technicalities, is that the choice of action of the US was a bone-headed thing to do. Now the 'free world' is asked to support bone-headed action. We can be expected to forgive and forget the 'how' stuff happened, but if one one is to progress one cannot forget the 'why' is the most important.

Dear Big Blue Machine, Not really. If a crime was committed, only then can it be declared illegal. One can only prosecute after the crime. After the statute of limitations runs out, (I think internationally it is 3 years) then and only then is it 'too late' for definitions such as 'illegal'.

Dear August1991, Mr. Blair is using the current tactic of 'dismiss the cause, what I did yesterday has no bearing on today'. Even if this were possible, is the present 'order of battle' feasable? Mr. Blair seems to be saying, "Even though we lied to you, misrepresented our motive, and bungled the job, that's no reason not to throw your support behind us stepping on the gas and continuing our present course". Indeed, no formal declaration of war was declared. The US/UK try to play both sides of the fence, dodging the charges of 'illegal action' by refusing to declare war, while trying prisoners for 'war crimes'.Besides, Iraq was never the 'crucible for terrorism', and both the US/UK and now Iraq both argue the right to use article 51 of the UN.

Dear Hugo, Well, there's the cases of gov't control being heavy handed and repressive, and there are cases of the gov't protecting people from their own idiocy. Not being allowed to fire your assault rifle in the air to celebrate a football game win, for example. Yes, people do risk death from both themselves and the police in matters such as these. 'Withdrawing from those institutions' would require one to denounce one's citizenship, and/or refusing to pay taxes, based on the 'disagreeable usage'. You would 'risk violence or death' only by the degree with which you opposed.

Dear bcdiehl, That is only a case of 'change for change's sake' and in no way guarantees change for the better.

Dear eureka, Islam has it's own 'political structure' built right in to the Koran, so you can't really say they don't have one. You are correct, 'terrorism' is just the name the western media prefers, and while the name can be correctly applied to certain given methods of warfare, many Muslims believe they are fighting a 'defensive war', or Jihad. Very true. Osama claimed that there are many actions that the US, Russia and China are doing that proves they are 'attacking Islam and Muslims in their home countries' and by your argument these people are only stoking the fire. I agree, but how to stop the Islamists from finding more 'proof'?I think the biggest fallacy of the West at this point is to argue the mistaken belief that 'Islamists' want to invade and conquer, then convert or kill, the Western World. Mostly, they are trying to say to the West, "F#%k off, and leave us alone".

Dear Hugo, Any gov't, nay society, must, in order to prevent anarchy, violate some rights. (Perhaps curtail may be more correct than violate, because the latter implies willful, random malicious intent.) If you take out 'General's' and insert 'Lawyer's", it sounds just like Canada! Here you are correct, about the only 'choice' we are given is "Do you support Public or Separate Schools?" at census time. However, it could be argued that the instances you cite are a case of your tax dollars subsidizing the right to choose, of individual freedoms available to all.

Dear Hugo, Rome was democratic. Senators, while appointed, had to have previously held (I think) 4 elected posts before being considered for appointment to the senate. Then there's the Monarchy system, totalitarian, to be sure, but also a wealth distribution system in it's own right. (Mostly by nepotism, mind you) It depends on what you consider a 'minority'. Birth rates are often much higher amongst 'minorities'. The 'white middle class' has cut their baby production considerably over the last 2 decades. Moreso now than ever, both parents work, and value material goods over large families.

Dear Han, Eureka is quite right, even asking "Is the media more of a boon than a bane?" would have been better.

Ft. McMurray has become Ft. McNewfoundland because the Newfies that want to work have gone where the work is, and rightly deserve to 'share the spoils'. If the feds were to take this wealth for 'equitible distribution', they might as well have said "No need to work, Mr. Newfie, stay where you are and we'll send the cheques to you". I know of one person that quit their job in Ft Mac because he was only clearing $1200 a week, setting up scaffolding, and didn't have the opportunity for overtime. The money to be had up there is silly, I hear tell, but if I want some of it, I should have to go there. I shouldn't expect any of it in the mail.

Dear August1991, I read the transcript. I guess Mr. Bush's reading in his spare time consists of 'The Little Red Hen' and 'Chicken Little'.

Dear August1991, Indeed I don't. Television, idol-worship and wonton consumption 'ain't my bag, baby'. Not that I feel people shouldn't be able to enjoy these things, the term 'sheeple' comes from the media espousing and subliminally reinforcing these things as 'the greatest good', and people both believing and doing it.By the by, 'Romeo and Juliet' was fiction. The creation of someone by the name of Willy Shakespeare, I think. If your only example of 'thinking outside the box' are two fictional characters, we're in trouble. 'Love is Blind', they say. To logic, I guess, but not to media-influenced ideas of perfection. Still, if Willy Shakespeare is to teach us anything, I hope it is to follow one's heart, and not 'respect the status quo or you'll end up dead'.

I think that this forum is marvelous. If there was a 'contributor of the year' award, I'd have to go with 'Greg the Administrator'. I have seen several other forums be ruined or cancelled due to flood posting, extreme racism, and general disrespect for others. Greg does a bang-up job moderating this forum, so no matter where you stand, 'intolerance' is not a part of the equation.

Dear takeanumber, Further to this,I'll liken Bush to a drunk driver. (Funnily enough, he was one). Responsibility for one's actions has given rise to the charge of 'vehicular manslaughter' when a drunk driver causes the death of a passenger in their car. Mr. Bush is swerving through history, in the gas-guzzling SUV we'll call 'America'. Drunk on power, Mr. Bush (and many 'at the wheel' before him, especially his father) careens wildly from country to country, stopping only to refuel. When confronted with a price at the pumps in Iraq he doesn't like, he simply pulls out his long-barreled .44 and says," America' is thirsty. Mr Smith &Mr.Wesson will decide the price". Now, with a 'foriegn policy' like that, sometimes shots are taken at 'America' as it drives by. It is, more often than not, the passenger who is the victim, but who is to blame? Mr. Bush should have his license taken away this November.

Dear Montgomery Burns, Does no one understand the demarcations of politics? I believe this is the source of the confusion over whether Hitler and Saddam were 'right' or 'left' wing. The 'right wing' likes smaller gov't because it means less taxes and controls. (I am in agreement with this, to a point. I certainly wouldn't want companies to be 'totally free' to 'maximize profit' by dumping mercury, dioxins and PCB waste upstream from my house) However, it is also the right-wing's strong desire to 'be in control'. Totalitarianism is the extreme of this view. The left's extreme of political control would be democracy, every vote equal, with no such thing as a 'business interested lobby group'.

Dear August1991, Eureka's quote, I believe, is a reference to the vernacular term "Sheeple". Sadly, it is also very true. Certainly people can be free thinkers, but as 'tabula rasa' entities, they can only think with what they have been exposed to.

Dear Montgomery Burns, Firstly, Global and the National Post are owned by the same company. The Calgary Herald, a few years ago, was considered 'too left wing' and they moved 'right-wing Christian Conservative' Peter Stockland over from the Calgary Sun to "move the Herald more in line with the thinking of Calgarians". Now it only publishes pro-US opinions, letters and editorials. With the exceptions of Peter Worthington and Eric Margolis, both the Calgary Sun and Herald rarely differ with 'the party line'.Secondly, I am very happy the CRTC banned Fox and allowed Al-Jazzera. Fox openly admits it's right-wing slant, and it is a source of "Quasi-News and Half-Truths For The Slack-Jawed Yokel". At least on Al-Jazeera I have a hope of hearing the truth, brutal though it may be. Have you any idea how incestuous the media really is? Can-West was just chastized for altering the text of journalist's 'reports off the wire' and replacing words (terrorist for insurgent, for example) to give the news 'the proper slant'. Right-wing media tactics all the way. (Although both right and left wing are quite good at 'propaganda'.)

Dear Black Dog, Indeed, I have read the alledged draft bill. All US citizens 18-26 facing 'obligatory service' for a period of 2 years. Conscientious Objectors can serve in a support capacity, no combat. This would be much more to the US' liking.Their weaponry is far more suited to face a conventional force than an insurgency. According to many in the US, (and those on the right wing) this is only because of the 'terrorists', while the bulk of Iranians would dance for joy at 'being liberated'.

Dear takeanumber, Black Dog did no such thing. 'Understanding' is a different animal than 'justifying'. As to placing the blame on the victims,, well, the Iraqi people ( along with millions of others throughout the world) are victims. How about we say, 'Lets declare war on oppression', then we could include the USA with Islamic extremists as oppressors.

Dear August1991, The Terrible Sweal is quite correct. It is the west that calls them 'suicide bombers' or whatever, the 'Islamists' call the same action a 'marrtyrdom action'. The difference is that the individual dies while in 'combat', rather than just snuffing oneself out of despair.