sir_springer

If you go to this website... http://www.liberal.ca/leadership/result_over.aspx And add up the vote counts for each sector in each province for the Liberal leadership race, as someone else painstakingly did... You'll find out that... Out of a supposed membership list of some 531,000...dead or alive, no one is really sure... 61,000 actually voted. At a glance, that looks like about a 12% turnout. Now... If that ain't just plain old pathetic, I don't know what is. The CA, by comparison, had a turnout of 88,000 out of 126,000, or roughly 72%. A party supposedly in trouble, according to all acounts by the Liberal's mutts in the media. People, I'm telling you again... This entire Martin/Liberal thing is an illusion. The fact is that most Canadians could not give a rat's ass about the guy, or his damned Liberal party. And the moment they finally start looking at their options, this bubble is going to burst all to hell. And believe me, people are going to look for an option. Because they're GD sick and fed up with these arseholes, mark my words. The day of reckoning approaches... Contrary to the attempted brainwashing being foisted upon Canadians by the sheep in the media.

The last thing we need is yet another "leader" that has very little or no political experience in the federal ring. Besides, we already have Peter MacKay filling that role.

Ummm.... Never mind.

My ranking? Stephen Harper: A+ All the rest: Second best, period.

For the record... I've always been a supporter of "uniting the right", so to speak. But for five years I have watched the likes of Joe Clark, Wayne, Crosby, and to a large degree, MacKay, do their damnedest to torpedo every effort by Manning, Day, and Harper to accomplish this. These SOBs have demonstrated nothing but self-centered, egotistical arrogance in their total disregard for what is best for the greater good of Canadians. However... If Harper can pull this off...without sacrificing that which is core to the Reform/Canadian Alliance...then more power to him. I will support him all the way. As to who will emerge to lead this new party? Stephen Harper. There is no other choice that even remotely approaches him. Not even close. He WILL be Prime Minister of Canada one day, and I suspect sooner than most think possible or probable. Leading a unified conservative party, he will be unstoppable. Why? Because the best the Libs have to offer is Paul Martin...who is a complete fraud. I am dead serious, not merely cheerleading, when I tell you that Stephen Harper will rip this fraud to pieces in front of the entire nation, one strip at a time...and do so with shocking aplomb and skill. Over the last year Harper has matured remarkably, his speaking skills have taken on a fine edge, and his leadership capabilities are now beyond question. If MacKay squashes this last effort for unity, it will be fatal to both him and his party in no uncertain terms. While I'd prefer a unified party, I sure as hell am not afraid of the CA and Harper going it alone. Because either way, Harper will emerge victorious at the end of the day. Of this, I am certain.

Harper makes 'last-ditch' effort to unite right CTV.ca News Staff There are reports that Canadian Alliance leader Stephen Harper has made a "last-ditch" effort to unite the right before the next federal election, and bring his party and the Progressive Conservatives under one banner. CTV's Lisa LaFlamme reports that Harper is getting some high-level help, from former prime minister Brian Mulroney and former deputy prime minister Don Mazankowski. LaFlamme said that Progressive Conservative Leader Peter MacKay was given Harper's proposal in August, but hasn't yet made a decision. "By going public, they are trying to force him to make a decision," LaFlamme said. Harper's plan is said to have support from the Alliance caucus. It would see the two parties hold a joint leadership convention before the next election, expected in the spring. One suggested name for the new party is the Conservative Party. The Canadian Alliance and its predecessor, the Reform Party, have never been able to elect enough MPs to have a viable chance at forming a government. Meanwhile, in the past decade, the Progressive Conservative Party fortunes have waned. The Tories currently hold 15 seats in parliament; the Alliance 63. The ruling Liberals hold 170 seats. "The Alliance realized they can't do it with two parties to the right," LaFlamme said. "They have to unite the right."

As a CA member... Either Harper is leader... Or nothing. I'm not even remotely interested in anything else.

Once this legislation passes, it is a given that one of the major churches in Canada will find itself in court defending itself for refusing to perform marriage rites for gays, you can bet on it. Then the crapola is really going to hit the fan.

I don't think most people can even imagine right now just how interesting the next election is going to get. This particular issue brings to a sharp point just how fast and far things are moving in this country, and just exactly who is stewarding this process. A hell of a lot of people have come to their limit of tolerance of this process, and are now prepared to do whatever it takes to put the brakes on this process and slow it down, if not halt it altogether. In the last couple of years, Canadians have stood by and watched this Liberal government crap all over long standing friends and allies of the last century. They've watched Liberals reduce our military to mere shadow of its former relative greatness, to the point of virtual ineffectiveness, if not total collapse. They've watched our centuries-long dedication to the ideals of freedom and liberty be reduced to expediency over principle. They've watched billions being scattered to the winds like so much confetti on hairbrained, ill-considered bullsh*t like the gun registry...and then beheld a government that just plain does not give a damn about any of it. They're watching a spectacle of arrogance, corruption, and outright contempt for democratic ideals such that I cannot ever remember witnessing the like in my lifetime. The question in the next election on people's minds is this: Who represents change from this ongoing gongshow? Paul Martin? The very man who was virtually second-in-command through all of it? The literal CFO of the entire country who, as Harper pointed out today, didn't mind writing the cheques to finance all this crap and corruption? This is "change"??? In a pig's ass it is! Throughout all of it, and I mean ALL of it, only one party has stood against this neverending proliferation of crap and corruption by this Liberal government. And in desperation, the Liberals often fell back to positions originally advocated by the Reform/CA in order to save their own sorry arses. But... It's no longer tolerable. It goes on and on and on, and it gets worse with each passing day, week, and month. Now we behold the RCMP probing into the very heart of the Liberal Party to find out where this corruption involving advertising scams in Quebec starts and stops. The Auditor General is due to release within weeks her cross-government audit of advertising. Considering the firestorm her audit of just one section of this portfolio stirred up, the likelihood of what is about to be revealed is bound to equate to a relative nuclear holocaust. There is only one man on the federal scene that is capable of going head to head with Paul Martin on any stage or venue. And there is only one party capable and prepared to assume the reins from these moral and integrity bereft bastards in the Liberals. Canadians are starting to look for an alternative. All they want to see is that: a) Harper is intelligent. He's got integrity. c) He's got principles. d) And that he's capable. This will become abundantly clear between now and the next election. And it will become shockingly clear as Martin has to step forward from his closet to face Harper face to face in front of the nation. Because Harper is going to tear this fruadulent son-of-a-bitch to pieces, one strip at a time, in clear, concise, terms that everyone will understand. But more than that, Harper will have something to offer in contrast to Martin... A policy platform with which the majority of Canadians can identify comfortably, a set of policies that fits well with Canadian values and principles that built this nation, and that have been the very backbone of this country since day one. I'm not even going to mention Peter MacKay. He's a mere piker and rookey who completely pales to Harper's skills, talents, intellect, and ability. The time has come in this company for the Liberals to pay the piper. Remember Mike Harris and his PCs six months before he formed a majority government in Ontario in 1995. And remember Mulroney and his PCs six months before he formed a majority government in Ottawa in 1984. In both cases, each was nowhere on the political radar. In both cases, each man rose to rip their adversaries to pieces and seize victory from virtually certain defeat. Political futures spin on a dime, and without warning. Martin is going to go down as the King who never was. The illusion is about to burst. Mark my words.

http://www.canadianalliance.ca/english/ind...ils.asp?ID=2348 The entire Liberal Party couldn't scrape together this much integrity and intelligence as Harper packs if their lives depended on it.

Let's see... That could have made the vote 136 for to 133 against. Yep... We can sure count on the PCs when we need 'em, eh? Hope you guys are proud of your useless, two-bit, wannabe party. :angry: :angry: :angry:

Gugsy... Surely to God you're too smart to believe simplistic crap like that. On the firewall thing, Harper was dead on the money...and so far not one son of bitch has had the gonads to go head to head with him on this. Why? Because he'll shred them to pieces on the issue. And what was he demanding? No more than Quebec already gets. Okay for Quebec. Screw Alberta. To hell with that noise. As for the defeatist thing? A nine second sound bite taken totally out of context and rammed for all it was worth by the CBC...Canada's version of Pravda. Again, if one takes the time to investigate the full context of what Harper was talking about, one...assuming more than three working braincells are present...will discover quickly that once again he was dead on the money in delivering the truth about the corrupt and bankrupt federalism that has been the norm out of Ottawa since the Trudeau regime. But like the old adage says... Don't confuse people with the truth, eh?

Welcome Cameron... Canadian Alliance all the way here, partner. Stephen Harper is by far the most qualified man for Prime Minister of this country, bar none. By comparison, MacKay is an absolute piker...generously speaking. Sorry, but that's the way it is. This country has been run into the ground by idiots and wannabes for decades now. It is long past time that we put someone at the helm with a real brain, and real clear vision of what this country is all about...and what it takes to get there. The difference between the Liberals and the PCs is little more than a matter of spelling. Personally, I will vote for separation before I would vote for either old line party. Between the two of them over the last 4 decades, they have screwed the west blind out of hundreds of billions of dollars, have degraded us to second-rate citizens in our country, have lied to us, have cheated us, and have virtually raped us. I will drive nails through my own feet before I would ever, ever vote Liberal or PC. It is time for a new political vehicle in this country to drag this country out of the paternalism and bankrupt federalism inflicted upon the entire nation by Ottawa and these two parties. Should the CA fail... I will be a committed separatist henceforth. In a nutshell... I have absolutely no use for this country within its present context. The Liberals and the PCs have systematically reduced this nation to a mere shadow of its potential greatness, and in the process made a complete mockery of democracy. As far as I'm concerned, they can put all the Libs and PCs that hold those two Jurassic parties together on a raft, float it out into the Atlantic, and sink the GD thing. This country would be eternally better off for it. IMHO.

So... You're a bitter Stockwell Day fan... Who will now vote for a collection of losers, with a no-body leader in MacKay... To get even with the CA. Give me a break! MacKay isn't qualified to clean Harper's shoes, and you damn well know it. I was, and I still am, a fan of Stock Day...but not to the point that I'm prepared to pout for the next ten years while Canada goes straight into the shitter. Damn it, is that pettiness or what! :angry:

There is a quietly seathing culdron just under the surface of western politics, this is a reality. In the months following the last election out here the contempt for eastern Canada held by just about anyone and everyone I talked to was remarkable...and people had no problem being open about it, too. Every election it's the same thing...except it get worse. A great many people take easterners shutout of the Reform/CA as a slap in the face to the west, period, end of story...myself included. That easterners would rather vote for scumbags and bastards like the Liberals absolutely guiles people out here beyond words. That easterners would alternatively vote PC...led by a total loser of a shmuck like Joe Clark...is even more insulting. This Paul Martin thing has a very dangerous downside to it. If this son of a bitch turns out to be just another scumbag Liberal handing westerns yet another crock of bullshit, the backlash out here could be disasterous...and damn suddenly, too. The best thing that could happen for national unity in this country is about 30 CA MPs being elected in Ontario. I can't tell you how much pressure that would relieve in this part of the country. Conversely... If the CA gets shutout yet again...especially with a leader like Stephen Harper... Well... I wouldn't bet ten cents on the future of BC and Alberta in this country. And I'm not kidding one bit.

In these days of "politically correct-ophobia" running amok among the masses... I'm wondering how many people tell polsters what they really think. Like I said before... Within the privacy of a voting booth, being politically correct don't mean diddly. ******* In today's Toronto Star: Cauchon works to sway MPs Same-sex issue divides Liberals It's about equality, minister says VALERIE LAWTON OTTAWA BUREAU OTTAWA—Justice Minister Martin Cauchon will stress equality rights during what's expected to be a raucous mid-August caucus meeting as he tries to win over backbenchers threatening to revolt against a government plan to allow same-sex marriage. "This is an issue of equality for all Canadians; he's certainly going to mention that," Mike Murphy, the minister's spokesperson, said yesterday. "We have a Charter of Rights in Canada, which is important to understand." A Star poll of Ontario Liberals showed MPs are badly divided over the government's plan to redefine marriage and allow gays and lesbians to tie the knot. The poll found 36 MPs who oppose the change and 32 MPs — the bulk of them cabinet members required to vote with the government — who support it. Another 11 MPs reached by the Star were undecided. It suggests a close decision when MPs finally vote on legislation, likely next year. The government has sent a draft bill to rewrite the definition of marriage to the Supreme Court for an opinion on whether it's constitutional. The marriage debate is expected to be the hottest topic of debate at a Liberal caucus meeting that begins Aug. 18 in North Bay. It's unclear what the government will do if MPs kill the legislation. "We do not have a Plan B at this stage," Murphy said. "The government has decided on what we believe is a balanced approach that recognizes the equality of Canadians and at the same time protects freedom of religion. It also takes into account the role of the courts and the role of Parliament." A spokesperson for the Prime Minister also said it would be "premature" to talk about what happens if MPs succeed in blocking the bill. However, the government will get a clearer picture of what that final vote will look like next month. The Alliance plans to force a vote on a motion calling for the traditional definition of marriage to be maintained. Most members of the Bloc Québécois and NDP favour same-sex marriage. The Tory caucus is split.

Basically, Graves can't separate his own bias from his so-called "scientific research"... -------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm no pollster worshipper By Claire Hoy TORONTO--As somebody who has not worshipped at the shrine of public opinion pollsters, your correspondent was pleased upon reading three recent columns by nationally-known writers questioning the wisdom of believing everything a pollster says. In The Toronto Star, both Ottawa columnist Chantal Hébert and freelancer Rick Anderson, former campaign director of the Reform Party, and in the National Post, Edmonton Journal columnist Lorne Gunter, all took strong exception to the latest anti-Alliance ramblings of Frank Graves, president of EKOS Research Associates. While it happens to be Graves this time, it could be any pollster. The notion that they are non-partisan "scientists" dealing with just-the-fact-ma'm, is absurd, even worse than believing judges have no personal axes to grind. Yet despite tons of evidence to the contrary, the media for years has been far too willing to accept what has been deemed to be an almost omnipotent wisdom possessed by pollsters. Not only are they normally portrayed as the ultimate authorities on what people are thinking at the moment -- a vision which conveniently overlooks numerous built-in shortcomings of polling as an "art" -- but they have even been elevated as seers of what the future holds, a future which, obviously, they have not even polled, and are no better equipped than anybody else to predict. But back to Graves. His latest EKOS poll puts the Alliance at 11 per cent support nationally, a result which prompted Graves to tell CanWest News Services that, "The Alliance is in serious trouble. I believe they have no chance of contending seriously on the national stage in the next election and I believe they will be very hard pressed to achieve opposition status." Why? Well, for one thing says Graves, Alliance Leader Stephen Harper just "ain't connecting" with voters "he seems like a kind of grumpy young man." How does Graves know this? Did he get this take on Harper from "scientific" polling? Ah, no. Instead, it's just Graves the pollster -- once again -- projecting his own view of Harper. He is, of course, entitled to his view. What he isn't entitled to, however, or at least what the media should not do, is report his personal views as if they had a scientific basis. Graves -- like most pollsters -- has often been completely wrong in his predictions, but as Anderson wrote in his Star column, after listing a host of Graves' poor prognostications about the Reform/Alliance (not to mention the Mike Harris Tories in Ontario), it's not just the iffy record of Graves, since he "is not alone in such (poor) forecasts," it might be a good idea if the media began reporting on the track record of pollsters rather than simply accepting their latest findings and reporting them without further comment. Amen to that. Graves was way off on Alliance/Reform in both the 2000 and 1997 elections. Alliance MP Dale Johnston wrote that, "Given that Ekos did more than $21-million worth of federal government business in the past five years, maybe it's just wishful thinking for Graves to hope that the Alliance will disappear." Maybe. Maybe not. But things of that nature, along with the track records, are worth reporting on all pollsters. Yet they hardly ever are. Why not? As for his specific predictions that the Tories have a better chance of forming the official opposition than the Alliance, Hébert does a masterful job of pointing out that the notion "is handicapped by an Olympian leap in logic." Even if his figures are correct, she writes, "with their [Tory] support spread a lot more thinly than the Alliance's, the Tories could win more votes in the next election and still emerge with fewer seats than the 15 they now hold." Hébert is not arguing that the Alliance is doing well. She is simply using Graves' own regional breakdowns to demonstrate the fact that he's speaking through his hat. His own numbers show that Alberta and the Prairies, heartland for the Alliance, are still their strongest regions -- and the Liberals' weakest -- while in Ontario and Atlantic Canada, two regions where the Tories are stronger than the Alliance, the Liberals are strong. Gunter uses the same regional breakdown to show the absurdity of Graves' predictions, characterizing his "gushing predictions of Tory success" as "more evidence of -- [his] inability to de-link his personal political views from the polling done by Ekos." Let us hope that such critical reportage of our hitherto sainted pollsters will become standard media fare. It's about time. The Hill Times