Jerry J. Fortin

I invite you to check the thread Negotiating Separation on the Federal forum. Very generally, I have three main issues c. separatism: -the grievances that drive it are exaggerated or even fictional; -destruction of Canada would be a terrible shame; -separatists' agendas implicitly deny the valid interests of other Canadians outside their clique. Is it an exaggeration that the NEP cost Albertans dearly? The destruction of Canada would be a shame, but why didn't the sentiment apply to Alberta with respect to the NEP? In Alberta we believe that ALL Albertans deserve to make that choice and voice their opinions. If you fear seperation then why don't you tell your MP to think about addressing the issues that cause it? Transfer payments are causing real backlase in Alberta these days, what is your view on this tax Alberta program? The democratic deficit is very real and close to the hearts of Albertans as is visible in the majority of support for Senate reform, what is your view on that? There are a multitude of reasons why Albertans want to seperate, how do you propose to resolve the issues at hand?

Even if man is responsible for the increased levels of greenhouse gases that may account for the current global climate changes, I don't think we are able to reverse the effects to mitigate the changes that I believe will occur. With that said I think what really should be done is making an effort to determine what these changes will mean to Canadians and work toward taking what advantage that may be found from them. The advantages may in fact be very minimal and the detrimental impact may be very great, but both need to be investigated. Global warming may raise sea levels. Global warming may precipitate an iceage. It may do this and it may do that, but what we need is a serious attempt to plan for possible eventualities. We have identified a possible problem and now we need to formulate a solution t that problem. This falls under the category of rocket science, not voo-doo economics.

Welcome to this forum and please continue to interject with a little dose of reality to those of us who are ignorant of the way of Islam. I am not a Muslim, nor a Jew, and in fact I am not a very good Christian either. I was born into the Roman Catholic Church but have since left that particular faith for reasons I believe in my heart to be valid. I claim to be a Christian even so, and I do believe in God. The problems the world faces today lead me to believe that in fact there are groups who intend to use violence to advance their causes and claim that justification for their actions can be found in their religious beliefs. I believe these people are wrong to act in this manner. I am interested in an educated Islamic view of things to balance my our secular beliefs. I prefer to judge for myself and choose to believe in that which I find to be compatible with my own moralistic nature.

Yep, pretty much. You I think that business and government are trying to find ways of making money off this one!

I favour freedom of choice and the power of democracy. If enough Albertans want to seperate then we will seperate if not so be it. It will not make a fed supporter out of me either way that is for sure. I get a good laugh at folks who think the provinces should be junior partners in confederation. We are supposed to be equal, and after having watched how that has been mishandled in the framework of my life I have been placed on my current political path. It is political stupidity for Alberta to remain in confederation. It is financial incompetance to remain in Canada. Honestly I don't think Albertans fit in either category.

The interesting thing about climate change is that there have been several verifiable occurances in our history. Apparently some folks do not believe in this scientific fact, oh well. In this I guess they are entitled to their opinions. From my perspective there seems to be sufficient evidence to support the assertion that another climatic change has already begun. I cannot fathom why why some people choose to assign blame for this, but they certainly seem to think that one thing or another is responsible for this change. I don't care who is responsible, but I do care if something is happening to the world in which I live. It would be nice to think that maybe we could create environmentally friendly industries that don't pollute our planet but could still provide viable employment. It would also be nice to think that our governments would be smart enough to act on our behalf before we encounter real problems. Unfortunately I don't see either eventuality on the foreseeable horizon. For my part I think that perhaps I will be viewed as adding to the problem, because I am switching to coal for heating my home. I need coal because I want to have a greenhouse and to heat that with anything else is cost prohibative. I have enough land to grow outdoor crops as well and plan to buy a cow/calf for dairy products. In spring I will buy an impregnated sow so I can raise some pigs before next fall. I want a few chickens too, so I will be guilty of creating greenhouse gases. On the other hand I will be provideing a large portion of my own agricultural products, I don't know if that makes me green or not but I do think that it will prove to be financially effective in reducing my household expenses.

Actually, that is the ultimate irony of separatist movements. All separatists are always hypocrites because once you agree that Canada is divisible then all of the newly created units are also divisible. If a democratic vote is enough to trigger the separation of Quebec or Alberta then a democratic vote can trigger the creation of any number of aboriginal states covering the northern parts of the provinces. If separatists try to use violence to stop aboriginal secession then they are inviting the rest of Canada to use violence to stop them from separating.On the whole separation is a pandora's box that only the most naive would ever consider opening. I think you will find that in Alberta literally all citizens including those of the First Nations would compose a rather cohesive unit of like minded citizens. We do not believe ourselves to be naive at all, just mistreated by the ROC, very much like the First Nations actually.

Actually, that is the ultimate irony of separatist movements. All separatists are always hypocrites because once you agree that Canada is divisible then all of the newly created units are also divisible. If a democratic vote is enough to trigger the separation of Quebec or Alberta then a democratic vote can trigger the creation of any number of aboriginal states covering the northern parts of the provinces. If separatists try to use violence to stop aboriginal secession then they are inviting the rest of Canada to use violence to stop them from separating.On the whole separation is a pandora's box that only the most naive would ever consider opening. I think you will find that in Alberta literally all citizens including those of the First Nations would compose a rather cohesive unit of like minded citizens. We do not believe ourselves to be naive at all, just mistreated by the ROC, very much like the First Nations actually.

Keep watching. No government is free from the contrived or misbegoten steps of its members. Opposition parties use a microscope to turn mole hills into mountains, that is the regular business of politics. Harper has not been long in office and accomplished little so far. His government has had a few faux pas bad enough to rate media coverage, but not too many for the public to freak out, at least so far anyway. The environment issue will start biting him around the ears for no other reason than all of the opposition parties take a different view on the subject than the government does. In his minority position it would be expected that he form some sort of comprimise policy, but I don't think he will. This one issue could be the basis of his demise, because if he can't make this fly in the face of the opposition and refuses to make a deal he simply doesn't have enough brains to govern this country. The majority of Canadian votes were not in favour of his government, the people must be respected in this matter.

You're mistaken. The court did not say that. Really? What the court said was that in the case of a clear concensus by a specific group of people within a given location by a majority who were in favour of leaving confedration that the federal government would be obligated to negotiate according to both our constitution and international law. While the Canadian Constitution does not describe the means of it disolution, that does not mean that the means is unavailable. Since neither the constitution nor international law provide any right of separation, it's clear that the court's statement does not suggest there is such a right. Not a right, that is a misleading statement. The court resolved that Quebec could through a legally visible concensus of its citizens compel the federal government to negotiate their departure from confederation.

Choosing sides creates allies and enemies. My personal preferance would be to take a neutral position. I believe in defending our citizens, I do not believe in acts of aggression that do not serve the purpose of defending our citizens.

Do you know of any real fools who can get elected? We may all call them fools but the reality is that we all know the are not. Why not just make not voting against the law?

The problem is really quite simple. Its none of our business. Their arguements stem from a dispute some thousands of years ago. A resolution will likely take the same amount of time and can only be implemented with the consent of the parties involved. We can't fix the problem for them and we can't fight theior battles for them. All that can be done is to offer to help heal the injured and offer sanctuary for those peaceable non-combatants that seek it.

In my view true faith removes the need for government. Having said that there are far too few people of true faith to make that possibility a reality. Therefore society is fronted by government instead of religion.

A person seeking an ideal government should read the American Declaration of Independence. In my view it is one of the greatest pieces of political writing ever put to paper. It rates the same category of respect as the Magna Carta. Even so, it lacks some relevant albeit modern revisions. A government of the people and by the people must serve at the pleasure of the people and therefore a democracy in which each citizen of legal age is responsible to participate in the election of representatives that would gather to consider the issues of the nation and preside over the stewardship of the public as a whole. Democracy is fragile, ignore it and it will die. One of the gravest assaults on democracy is the freedom which allows individuals to act in accordance with their own best interests. A democratic government needs the support of the public to survive, and the apathetic approach to politics which has recently become so common among citizens is a very real threat to our society. Our freedom depends on the strength of our democracy and since the only way to preserve that democracy is through particpation in the political process we need to enshrine this within a constitutional framework. Society must legislate participation in the political process.

We are about to get used to this form of government..........

I think that we citizens of the west need to take a few steps back from the edge for a minute and think about what it is that we desire to accomplish. From my point of view we need to clean up our own act before we start telling anybody else how to live. Its not as if we don't have poverty closer to home to deal with. We have crime problems too, and you may have noticed a few corrupt politicians over here as well. We are not perfect yet we try to make it look as if we are so much better than others. To each their own and to each other with respect. There is a line worth thinking about. Cultures differ amongst the citizens of this earth, and we need to be mindful of those differences and take them into account in our relationships with each other. History has taught harsh lessons to those who believed that they could create beneficial change by imposing a version of morality not indigenious to specific citizens. We need to look back and see where we have gone, and recognize what harm we have caused by our actions. Iraq should be a university degree to politicians, but I fear they will not achieve a passing grade in the judgement of historical recollections.

I love it! Both Liberal leadership frontrunners will promote the cause of Alberta getting out of Canada. Go Bob or Go Iggy.....please be elected so Alberta can be free at last!!

I got some bad news for you: your pension plan probably holds a pile of Canadian gov't bonds. Without the 'financial system' and gov't debt you would have no pension. I am not too worried about the company pension plan. It is 100% funded and has been in existence for over 100 years. It will pay a maximum benefit of $60,250.00 per year for employees with max contributions. Add the CPP and it totals 70 plus! Not bad for a dumb railroader eh!

I was a wage slave all my life. I saved and invested my money in RRSPs. Now I am a member of the investor class. No problem. You mean you are retired! I have no room for RRSP's the damned feds gave my tax deduction to my employer! On the other hand I will get a nice little pension, not so little actually! At any rate I have 7 years left to go, and no intention of buying stocks or bonds. I don't want to get into real estate either. I have no intention of starting a business, but I do intend to move to a warmer climate. Send me my pension check, my old age check and my company pension plan to the tropics! I can grow my own food all year round there.

I agree. Most of us will be executed in the FEMA death camps that have been secretly built over the past 20 years. Look up "Operation Night Train" - a US gov doc that shows how they will pick members of the military to come and wake you up in the middle of the night and drag you away by train. Also see Rex 84. What on earth are you talking about? FEMA death camps! You must be kidding...........

They seem to be fighting back nicely these days. India, China, Nigeria, Venezuela. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want to live in Nigeria for all the tea in... You don't fight the IMF and the World Bank. You want their help you ask for it, they will show up right smartly. They will tell you how to run your country if you want their money, and you get to pledge some strategic assets and sign on the dotted line. When you get into trouble with payments they will make some arrangements for you. Some nice folks will come by and fix the problem by collecting some of the collateral you pledged and they will give you some economic intructions to implement in your country. Do as you are told and you get to collect some more money. I certainly agree with you there. They get rode hard and put away wet. Well yes I suppose that is one choice to be made.

Has that imbalance been caused by the financial sector or by the way gov'ts and individuals have choosen to assume debt that they should not have assumed. You could argue that the current system needs more checks to prevent people and gov't from making dumb decisions but that argument does _not_ show that the entire financial system is fundementally flawed. It was caused by the creation of the financial sector, and compounded with the complicity of the governments who were and are the biggest customers of the banks. The problem does not lay at the feet of the government or at the feet of the industry itself, it lays before us the free people who allow our politics and governments to enslave us within the paradigms that have formed the foundations of the financial structure in our society. If we cannot find a way to compete then our currencies will have to drop until we can compete. That will mean our standard of living will take a huge beating but that has to happen anyways since the earth cannot continue to supply the resources necessary to mainatin our current standard of living. "Our" standard of living? You mean the wage slave, but not the investor class of citizens bec ause they will no doubt be able to afford to invest in the very company's that will put our employers out of business in our own land. Make no mistake the WTO is designed to protect the owners of business, and participating nations have the means of protecting the wealth of the investors or they simply are not allowed to participate. The rich will just get richer, but there will be many more poor than there ever was. There is far more productive capacity then is needed, there is not a shortage but a surplus of resources Riverwind. That is the root of the problem! There is such great wealth that it makes even the most affluent envious. There is not a shortage of food either. There is more than enough to go around, but the system we live in is a supply and demand consumer society where availability controls the market price. Therefore producers limit their productive capacity and charge a premium for their products. Look at the diamond market for example and tell me there is a shortage of pretty rocks. I fail to see why the demotion of Britain from a superpower to a major power was a big problem for the British people. It is true they went through hard times after the war but that is to be expected - it was a war after all. US will be demoted from its superpower status but that does not mean Americans will end up living like Chinese peasants. Think of all of the little investors who had stock in company's involved in war production that simply didn't survive the conversion to commercial applications after the war. How about all the people that worked in those company's? It would be a problem for you if you lost your job and were unable to find employment of any sort in your town would you not? Say you had to move to be retrained at another location and your real estate investment was worth pennies on the dollar in your home town because everyone was out of work and they were all trying to sell there houses, would that be a BIG problem then? Perhaps more importantly, the Chinese peasants have lived that way for thousands of years and know nothing else, Americans do know something else don't they? Do you think perhaps they may be a little pissed off? Perhaps enough to take some kind of drastic action even?

Which bank ATB Financial? www.atb.com Major C.H. Douglas wrote extensively on this subject and created a very interesting theory, it is worth a read.

Warmer is better than colder! If it was getting colder we would have a lot worse problems. Having said that we will still have some problems to deal with. Like it or not we need to start considering the fact that we own 7 percent of the fresh water supply on the planet. Our American friends need that water badly and the praires could use irrigation badly, a match made in heaven I think. We could sell the Yanks the water and have them pay for building an irrigation system for us. Damned stuff just drains into the sea to be converted to rain anyway why not use it before we lose it?