Wiggum

People killed in Toronto with legal, registered hanguns = 1(Brass Rail, 2008) People killed by Ontario Attorney Generals = 1 (AG Michael Bryant, 2009). Ban Ontario Attorney Generals.

BC doesn't have a blaze orange law and they have the longest gun seasons of any province.

Not to derail another thread..but the updated Buff is my choice for FWSAR in BC...J model for the rest Ok..Back to F-35s.....

Gotta say, even though I have misgivings...it looks awesome in yellow http://www.ainonline.com/?q=aviation-news/aviation-international-news/2011-10-01/bell-explores-new-missions-v-22-tiltrotor

Well that's true...just ask us

Agreed...just my opinion anyways...and we all know what opinions are like.

Landing in brown/white out conditions is VERY different then maneuvering in said conditions. Flying through mountains, conducting hoists(rappelling,fast roping in your case) into trees/onto boats confined area landings etc.. are not things you do with 0 reference points. You would not see a Griffon/Chinook pilot land a chopper in Afghanistan with buildings(for example) 20 feet off his rotors in a complete brown out. Realize there is a difference between complete loss of references and losing 90%. What you perceive as a brown out as grunt in the back in the back is most likely not perceived in the same manner by your pilots. Any pilot can slam down a chopper in an open field with 0 vis using instruments once sand/snow obstructs his view. Add obstacles and things become very different. Im an ex grunt myself. 2VP

I am surprised with your experience that you would suggest Helos could fly and in brown/white outs...when it happens the top priority is getting out of it ASAP...not carrying out a hoisting land sequence. Huge difference between picking up a wet, hypothermic father and his 8 year in Muskoka after they plunged through the ice and saving a downed F18 pilot under Taliban fire in Afghanistan. In the first case patient care is top priority, in the second security and speed (in and out)is top. I understand where you are going with your idea of a V-22 application. Honestly I agree. I think domestic SAR should be passed on the the Coast Guard and a CSAR application stood up...it is the military after all. It's been talked about for years but it doesn't seem to be happening. If the CF SAR world does go the CSAR route then I might be inclined to agree with you. However, as it stands right now, the requirements of domestic SAR are not met with a V-22 based on its down wash alone.(IMO of course) I couldn't imagine trying to pick up the said 8yo above as he is blown about the ice by V-22 down wash.

I suggest you reread my previous posts as you are obviously not comprehending. Helos don't purposely fly into brown/white outs. Sometimes they happen when they are landing. Sometimes they are still able to land with some small reference on the ground and sometimes they will need to abort.You would NEVER see a rescue hoist happen in a complete white/brown out. Your thoughts on flight seem to be a little skewed. Your also still comparing a need for domestic SAR dealing with civilians to a CSAR war scenario. Two completely different beasts. I agree that the Griffon is sad a best. Especially used in a SAR role in a country the size of Canada. I should add that I am speaking from 10 years of pointy end CF SAR experience and have worked on all four of our current SAR platforms. 435 424 442

Night they use NVGs but still require references to hold a steady hover. There is no such thing as flying into fog and holding a hover...that would be aborted.

The higher you are the more pilots wander in their hover causing induced swinging and spinning. In a Cormorant for example, with 300 feet of cable out that small maneuvering up top causes major havoc down below...Same on a Griffon with it's 250ft. The flight engineer does call clearances and give adjustments. That does not stop a pilot with no references(and some with great references ) from wandering all over the place. An FE can correct all he wants but the pilot must have some sort of reference to hold a steady hover. Add that to the fact that from 200ft(for example) an FE cannot judge if he is a foot or two out on the pick up. That small amount induces a small swing. Once tha small swing hits the down wash it quickly translates into a spin...which can be quite violent. The Cormorant does have auto hover but that doesn't mean the pilots don't need to adjust the aircraft left/right forward and back...which requires references to hold. Now add wind etc into the equation...it's never as simple as it seems. Which is why SAR flying relies heavily on the crew concept.

A heavier winch does nothing but hopefully stop a down wash induced spin.(chances are it'll happen anyways on occasion)A longer winch is insignificant as each hoist sequence is performed at different heights depending on the mission requirements. In fact, the higher the hoist, the more difficulty pilots have keeping reference placing rescuers and victims at greater risk. A longer and heavier hoist also doesn't solve any of the other issues I stated above. We aren't talking CSAR. This is in country SAR where saving lives and patient care is the priority. Big difference in requirements.

The Osprey is a terrible idea for FWSAR/RWSAR. The downwash is ridiculous on those things. The Cormorant has terrible downwash as well. Blowing down trees on top of Sar Techs, blowing over patients, launching stokes litters into the air, blasting spray into the face of rescuers/victims in water rescues...and people think the V-22 which has more downwash is a good idea? No thanks.

You know as well as I do that cars are already registered. Your so witty and sneaky If you want to get into the "Cars are registered so why not firearms" conversation then you go first.

Nope Im trying to prove how ridiculous that whole thought process is.