Scott75

I did no such thing, consider your question harassment, and have reported it as such. LOL, oh, so now words have only your meaning... Some words are generally accepted to be extremely derogatory and generally constitute harassment when used to describe others. This generally isn't the case for words like male and female. What those words -mean-, on the other hand, depends on who you're asking.

Agreed, but the problem here is something else. Put simply, the problem here is that your definitions of male/female/man/woman/boy/girl aren't the same as other people's definitions of those terms. My definitions make sense and are what they have been since humans have existed and had terms for male and female. Most if not all word definitions make sense, that's not the issue. The issue is how people are defining terms like male and female. Some, like yourself, are sticking to how it was defined in the past. An increasing number of people are defining it in a way that includes trans people to be in the gender they identify with.

There is something very wrong with society and it's weird people trying to normalize weird behaviors. You know, weirdos like you trying to mainstream transsexualism. But we normal Americans are not going to put up with it. Well, I'm glad that we agree that there's something very wrong with a good chunk of society. Unfortunately, we don't agree on -what- is wrong in this case :-p. You can ofcourse insult people who disagree with your viewpoints, but it's not going to make your beliefs more persuasive. I suggest you focus on the reasons you believe what you believe rather than insulting those who don't agree with your beliefs.

There is something wrong with trans people - they act like the opposite sex and they are not the opposite sex. There is something inherently wrong with that thinking. On top of that, many in the trans community want more than just acknowledgment that they exist. They want compliance and full access to kids, and normal Americans will fight like hell to keep that from happening. We were using the word gender in the past, I'm going to stick with that one, especially because gender is recognized by many as having both a social and a biological aspect. I would say that trans people frequently socially interact in ways that are normal for the gender they identify with. They are ofcourse not that gender biologically, but why should that matter? You seem to think that there is something inherently wrong with acting in a way that doesn't conform to societal norms for a given biological gender, but you haven't actually given a reason for why you think this is wrong. As to having "full access to kids", I'm not sure what you mean by that, but I do know that some people in the transgender community have kids of their own. Do you think that is wrong too?

Homosexuals shouldn't be allowed to have kids either, to be quite frank. Ah, so you are part of these some I was referring to. Why do you believe this? It's stupid if it did, as skin color is not directly connected to wrong behaviors. Putting what you said previously regarding homosexuals and kids, it seems that you believe that being homosexual and/or trans are wrong behaviours? If so, why?

It all depends on how you define gender. Wikipedia's article on gender makes it clear that what gender means depends on who you're asking: ** Gender includes the social, psychological, cultural and behavioral aspects of being a man, woman, or other gender identity.[1][2] Depending on the context, this may include sex-based social constructs (i.e. gender roles) as well as gender expression.[3][4][5] Most cultures use a gender binary, in which gender is divided into two categories, and people are considered part of one or the other (girls/women and boys/men);[6][7][8] those who are outside these groups may fall under the umbrella term non-binary. A number of societies have specific genders besides "man" and "woman," such as the hijras of South Asia; these are often referred to as third genders (and fourth genders, etc.). Most scholars agree that gender is a central characteristic for social organization.[9] ** Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender Yeah, the cultural aspects of BEING a man or woman... Did you notice that Wikipedia didn't mention biological in its definition?

That is fundamentally dishonest. They are not both women. No, you're just trying to impose your definition of women on everyone else. LOL, it is not my definition. It is, but let's continue with what you were saying... I'm sure you know that definitions can and frequently do change over time. An increasing number of people are including trans women as a type of women. Thank you for at least acknowledging that some people have now expanded their definition of women to include trans women.

That you can be something you are not, that words have no real meaning. Words can have any meaning we wish. I think a line from the well known science fiction author Frank Herbert is apt here: ** "Words can carry any burden we wish. All that's required is agreement and a tradition upon which to build." ** Source: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/44439415-god-emperor-of-dune

Never said that. I think it's clear that both of these terms, as well as others such as boy, girl, man and woman are all quite meaningful terms. But that doesn't mean that their meaning can't change to some extent. I think that calling a trans male or female the gender that they identify with is fine, but as I've mentioned before, I think it's important that we distinguish between biological males and females and people who identify with a gender that isn't their biological one. We can do that easily enough by adding biological before the terms in question. They are not meaningful when you change them to be contradictory and meaningless as you are trying to do. First of all, I'm certainly not the first person whose definition of terms like male and female now include trans males and trans females. I think that we might even agree that it's becoming increasingly popular to define males and females in this expanded way. Secondly, expanding the meaning of a given term doesn't make it meaningless, so long as the new definition still has limits.

Why did you just admit to being a pedophile? I did no such thing, consider your question harassment, and have reported it as such.

Believing you are something you are not, is in fact, a mental issue. Agreed, but the problem here is something else. Put simply, the problem here is that your definitions of male/female/man/woman/boy/girl aren't the same as other people's definitions of those terms.

That is fundamentally dishonest. They are not both women. No, you're just trying to impose your definition of women on everyone else.

So, their gender. It all depends on how you define gender. Wikipedia's article on gender makes it clear that what gender means depends on who you're asking: ** Gender includes the social, psychological, cultural and behavioral aspects of being a man, woman, or other gender identity.[1][2] Depending on the context, this may include sex-based social constructs (i.e. gender roles) as well as gender expression.[3][4][5] Most cultures use a gender binary, in which gender is divided into two categories, and people are considered part of one or the other (girls/women and boys/men);[6][7][8] those who are outside these groups may fall under the umbrella term non-binary. A number of societies have specific genders besides "man" and "woman," such as the hijras of South Asia; these are often referred to as third genders (and fourth genders, etc.). Most scholars agree that gender is a central characteristic for social organization.[9] ** Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender

They're all thorny issues which is why dressing up and going out on the town is the only choice. Anything outside of that needs to be illegal - especially with kids. Well, we agree on the thorny issues bit at least :-p. Let's not forget that all trans people were once kids too. I -strongly- suspect that this insistence that the genders are different is actually part of the -reason- that some people decide to become trans, and sometimes even go as far as altering their body physically to appear more like the biological gender they identify with. Did you know that it's illegal to be homosexual in Iran, but it's ok (if still looked down upon) to be transexual? It's true: https://www.dw.com/en/how-irans-anti-lgbt-policies-put-transgender-people-at-risk/a-53270136 Some U.S. states still have statutes criminalizing sodomy, although these laws have become "enforceable due to the binding precedent of Lawrence v. Texas, meaning consensual sodomy cannot be prosecuted.[26]" Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy_laws_in_the_United_States I think what's needed is that more people understand the pain that transgender people go through in their daily lives. I suspect you could do with more understanding of this pain yourself. The more people understand this, the more I suspect that things will become better, for everyone.

It's story hour, it's pole dancing, it's anything where trannies are allowed to get near kids in a more intimate setting. Keep the trannies away from kids. It really needs to be a law. I believe there are some who have similar concerns when it comes to homosexuals and kids. In the past, I imagine the same applied to people of color and kids. I don't know if you're the one who said that all trans people have "mental issues" or whether that was someone else, but the bottom line here is, I think, the same- you think that young people shouldn't be around trans people because something is wrong with trans people. I think the truth is that the main issue is that something is wrong with a good chunk of society, mainly that we're far too focused on how the genders are different and we tend to ignore on how they are the same. This goes for trans people and non trans people too. Ultimately, we're all just humans trying to find love and acceptance in the world.

There is no middle ground there. There's just conformity to the trans agenda, which is unacceptable. The ONLY solution is to keep the bathrooms to biological men and biological women. For starters, not all trans people have the same ideas as to how things should be. I think the documentary "What is a woman?" made that clear when the creator of the documentary interviewed a trans woman that fully acknowledged that she should never be the same as a biological woman. That doesn't mean that we can't define both trans women and biological women as women, while at the same time holding on to the terms trans and biological for when we want to differentiate between them. As to bathrooms, gender neutral bathrooms are already becoming more common place and I think this is a good thing. I think the real thing here is to know what trans people go through. I've heard stories as well as first person accounts from trans people, about how hard it is to use gendered bathrooms because many in both genders don't want them in their bathroom. Gender neutral bathrooms gets rid of the problem.

It certainly is to a girl who worked her whole entire life to be the best at running, or swimming, or cycling, just to have a mediocre male claim to be a girl and get to compete against them stealing their spot on the podium. On this point I do agree, which is why I think that sports events should be allowed to differentiate based on one's biological gender.

Nope. I shall not play along with your dishonest game, change meanings of words to something nonsensical, to appease a few people who have mental issues. There's nothing dishonest going on here. I've simply decided that I'm alright with calling both transwomen and biological women women. I'm certainly not the only one and I think we might even agree that it's becoming more common for people to define women this way. I -do- think that many people have become stumped when it comes to answering the question "what is a woman/man/boy/girl/male/female?" when it comes to people, but as I've mentioned previously, I think I've solved that problem by simply pointing out that different people define it differently and then giving the definitions that I go by myself. As to your insistence that all trans people have "mental issues", this type of language reminds me of how homosexual people used to be seen, even in psychiatry manuals. I believe some people still do think that all homosexual people have "mental issues" too, but I think it's something that's fading. I think it's beginning to fade with trans people as well and I think it's for the best.

That is exactly what you want to do. The reality and truth is that we have terms for men and women, male and female, and they have a meaning. You want to alter that in a meaningless way now. A man who thinks he is a woman... is not a woman nor is he female. What about the pronouns? So, you want us to call him a her too? You see, the madness doesn't stop at just saying you will call him a female. He isn't identifying as a female, the name is LITERALLY transWOMAN. The reality and truth is that you don't need to attach a modifier like biological to male or female, they are in fact what they are. We all have the right to define terms the way we want to. If we want to define women as both biological women and trans women, we can do so. If we don't want to define them with the same word, we have this choice as well. I for one am ok with defining women as both and I think the amount of people who are ok with it will increase in the future. And if I'm asked the question "What is a woman", I'm happy to explain that it all depends on who's doing the defining, what my personal definition is and how I can still differentiate between biological women and trans women if I feel the need to.

But you do think they should be told that male and female are meaningless terms?! Never said that. I think it's clear that both of these terms, as well as others such as boy, girl, man and woman are all quite meaningful terms. But that doesn't mean that their meaning can't change to some extent. I think that calling a trans male or female the gender that they identify with is fine, but as I've mentioned before, I think it's important that we distinguish between biological males and females and people who identify with a gender that isn't their biological one. We can do that easily enough by adding biological before the terms in question. What madness? I said previously that I think that gender terms are quite meaningful, but I believe that many go too far in thinking that males and females are that different. Male or female or some combination of the two (intersex), we're all humans that need to be accepted and loved. I've always had great reservations about plastic surgery in general, atleast in things where I think people look fine to begin with, such as biological women thinking they need to enlarge their breasts. But if they want to enlarge them as adults, I think it should be their choice to make. The same goes for trans people of either gender who want to modify themselves to look more like the gender they identify with.

I agree with you on the surgery bit. I currently believe that minors shouldn't be getting things like puberty blockers or surgery. If they still want to change their appearance when they reach adulthood, that's a different matter.

So... you have moved far away from any notion of compromise now. This isn't compromise, this is you wanting to change the meaning of words to play along with what makes trans people happy. No thanks. I reject your "compromise" as I am not going to compromise reality and truth to appease another delusions about themselves. I'm not suggesting to "compromise reality and truth", I'm suggesting that society as a whole go along with calling transgender males and females by the gender they identify with, while at the same time having another term (biological) to differentiate between biological males and females and people who identify as a gender that is not their biological gender.

So... you have moved far away from any notion of compromise now. This isn't compromise, this is you wanting to change the meaning of words to play along with what makes trans people happy. I think it's a relatively small sacrifice for non trans people to make. The compromise is that I still distinguish between trans males and females and -biological- males and females. I also think that sports events should have the right to distinguish between them as well. Now this -doesn't- mean that I think that responses to people like J.K. Rowling were appropriate. She may not agree that trans women should be called women, that doesn't mean that her Harry Potter books and films don't deserve praise. Recently, she participated in a 7 part podcast series on her views on transgenders. There are articles that agree and disagree with her and I think that's fine too: https://nypost.com/2023/02/21/the-witch-trials-of-j-k-rowling-a-needed-dose-of-sanity/ https://www.vulture.com/article/witch-trials-jk-rowling-podcast-essay-review.html

That is not a middle ground. Middle ground implies there is some kind of compromise here Yes. What we're talking about is the definition of words. I remember a passage from one of Frank Herbert's sci fi Dune books (since made into Dune movies I imagine you've heard of). He goes on about how words can mean whatever we want them to mean. I think a good compromise in terms of what a woman means is to accept that the words female, girl and woman by itself don't have to mean biological female, girl or woman. This can make trans people happy while at the same time reserving the term biologically female for females that were born that way biologically. Well, now -that- is certainly a controversial statement :-p. It's also incorrect by default, as some non trans men certainly have mental issues. If you want to make a case that trans people have mental issues by default, by all means, present your evidence. I certainly think that -some- do, but then as I already stated, some non trans people have mental issues too. The way I see it, if a biological man wants to identify as a woman, I'm ok with that. It doesn't change the fact that they're a biological man but it certainly says something about what gender they want to identify as. Again, it all depends on how we're defining terms like male, female, girl, boy, man and woman. I don't see why biological males and females should have to have exclusive rights to being called males and females, but I -do- believe that they should have exclusive rights to being called biologically male and female. To me, I think this is an acceptable compromise. I suspect you'd disagree and that's fine. Ultimately, I suspect dictionaries will weigh in on all of this. Time will tell.

The middle ground is allowing trannies to be themselves. As I said before, there's no issue with them dressing up and running around in public, but that's where it ends. If they need to hit the bathroom they'll be doing their business in the mens room. Again, I think there can be a middle ground here and I think it's already being implemented in some places. I think the best solution is to simply have more gender neutral bathrooms and perhaps do away with urinals. There are ofcourse no urinals in female bathrooms, so it's just a matter of modifying the men's bathrooms. I strongly suspect that a lot of the problem is that our society's place too much importance on the difference between men and women, when the fact of the matter is, we all need to eliminate waste, regardless of what gender we are biologically and/or identify with. I'm not sure where your comment is coming from, but I -suspect- that you're alluding to things like Drag Queen Story Hour: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_Queen_Story_Hour Would you consider that to be an accurate assessment of what you're alluding to? I suspect that the issue of pronouns may well be the thorniest issue you bring up. Generally speaking, if I see someone that I think looks like a male or female, I'll address them by the gender that I think fits. If they tell me that they are or identify with the other gender, I'll do my best to remember this and call them by the gender they identify with. I know that I have at times forgotten, though fortunately I don't think I've done that often if ever when speaking to the person in question. That being said, I believe that it's best that everyone is clear as to what a person's biological gender is in certain circumstances, relationships being one of them. I think we can agree that few people would be fine with being surprised that a person they started dating isn't the biological gender they thought they were. That line reminded me a line frequently repeated in a Star Wars TV series called the Mandalorian: "This is the way." Religions are frequently fond of coming up wth rules that they believe must be followed for all eternity. I think that -some- of those rules generally should be- "do to others what you would have them do to you" generally seems like a good one. I believe that others don't make sense though. Ultimately, I think that a saying popularized by Spoc from Star Trek is a good rule to measure others by: "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one."