Leader Circle

This is SatanHarper, revamped the name with alot of help from Greg, we are all good now.. OK Back to bashing Lefties.....Kidding! Thanks Greg. The new and improved Leader Circle, those members of the Conservative party will get my name.

And you're still wrong, but at least you can take comfort in the knowledge that some things never change. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I guess my being wrong would be your opinion right? I have a different one!

Unfortunatly, you didn't have the pleasure of taking Philosophy 101, in which (my prof, at least) said "Attack the substance and content of the text, not the style of the author." Or perhaps you're simply incapable of doing so. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> "you am incapaple of doing so" sounds oddly close to an attack on the author (me) so be careful to heed your own advice. Actually it was philosphy 125 and it was a practical logic course. The fallacy to which you are referring is called "ad hominem". It's not a perfect fit for the definition but close. You missed the context: another post criticized Sweal's use of vocab, not me. Sweal came back and accused that poster of being unintelligent. I simply posted my remarks to demonstrate that some in academia don't consider the use of multisyllabic words to be a measure of intelligence. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks Jerry, It is good to have a scholar like yourself on our side. I do not spend my time inside a dictionary, but I can understand the words well enough to know, the point would have made it across with smaller, shorter words. That was my main point to Sweal. I never implied I didn't get it Sweally! We could even do this discussion in French, Spanish or German if you run out of big words in English!

Passing the SSM bill will have absolutely no effect on the outcome of a charter challenge regarding incest or polygamy. Actually, most homosexuals just want to be able to do what other Canadians already take for granted. It seems to be the religious right who insist on debating social policy as a sort of sport. By the way, I found this part of your post to be truly entertaining: So, if I've got your argument clear, even if the SSM bill passes, those on the religious right are going to demand that it be "appealed" [sic] and force it to be, yet again, debated ad nauseum. But, according to you, its the homosexuals that are just itching for a debate. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Why do you suppose the religious right like to debate it? Maybe because of their morals? If they didn't enjoy the press, why have the gay pride parade? They make themselves seen to the public knowing full well most God fearing people are appalled by them. They find a way to be as lewd as possible to throw it in the face of average Joe. "The parade showcased everything from bronzed, scantily-clad dancers gyrating on floats to pounding dance music" (quote from below) If the average public wanted to see gyrating dancers of the heterosexual persuasion, they would have to go to a strip joint. The now don't even follow the same rules that most people adhere to. When they do something it always seems to be as public as possible and as graphic as possible. Yet, they try to compare themselves to average family values????? Explain this? http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...s_name=&no_ads= As far as the ssm leading to other things... I stated this before, but here it is: "How long ago was it that homsexuality was a crime? I think anal sex is against the law in Georgia still. So the case will stand for polygamists & incest supporters, eventually in a country like Canada(pushovers) it won't be long. Incest is a stretch, but Polygamy isn't. I think the BC polygamists are starting to gain recognition. I guess you could say incest is wrong because the offspring is very handicapped & deformed, but what offspring can homsexuals produce??? And if that incestuous relationship is loving & consentual, why is it hurting the institution of marriage??? I am strongly against all of this, but ssm is opening the door!" Maybe it never will.....but what cause is next? Next thing they are going to tell straights is their public shows of affection offend them and infringe on their human rights. If these people have no cause, they won't get any press & they won't be happy. It is a never ending story. Most of these gays are cause driven people, they have been fighting oppression their whole life(or so they will tell you) and when they win this battle, you think they will go on and live their lives in private? NO WAY! Something else will bust loose and they'll be in the newspapers again!!

The definition of Irony!! ^^^^^^^

You certainly enjoy stirring shit don't you THETROLL, I mean LIBERAL. In a heavy left forum, these results should be higher. Must be some lefties with morals. Who would have thought????

As I have said before, if ssm is truly a matter of national interest(as has been called by Liberals), why not have a referendum? I am sure, if Canadians were asked the question, according to the rules of the Clarity Act, they would lose this debate for ssm. Canada is not ready for this. Also, as was said above, the Libs, NDP & Bloc MP's do not represent all the opinions of their constituents. Some are for it because of how they feel not how all their constituents feel!!! So for them to have a free vote is kinda silly. The vote will go for how they feel. The same is also true for those against ssm, many of their constituents will be for ssm. As for you Blackdog, You are right(as much as I hate to say it), in a round about way. Nothing is stopping incestuous people or polygamists from making a case, but it opens the door by setting a precedent for them. They will have another ruling to follow. It gives strength to many other minority causes. That was all I was saying. It does seem inevitable that this will become law, I just see a major backlash from the religious right and from John Q Canadian when it actually does make law. If the Conservatives become the gov't in the next election, I think they will be pressured to appeal this and we'll be back into the debate again! I wonder if the homsexuals in Canada enjoy this attention or are they just fighting for their cause? They really seem to enjoy being debated!!!

I won't if sweal sits at his computer with a dictionary & a thesaurus and finds these big useless words, hoping that we all find him intelligent? No word, regardless of it's size or meaning could make you look intelligent sweal!! Why not stick to words that the whole world uses?

You have to remember the position they stand for...gay rights! They would not understand the point of family values, they are too busy being oppressed by the homophobes of the right! Everything is a cause in the lefty world!

Well, I'm rich so I will do what Technocrat says!!!

Here is another way to look at last nights vote. Maybe, just maybe, this was a plan by the Conservatives. After all, the last few months has had the Conservatives pulling out almost every stop to get the minority gov't to fall. They know lots of tricks and parlimentary procedures. 1. They renew the threat to topple the gov't on the NDP budget very publicly. 2. They screw around in the house of commons using every delay tactic they can find to slow the NDP budget vote, knowing full well the Libs are trying to get it to a vote. 3. They make a deal with the Libs to allow the budget to go through to stall C-38. Libs take so much flack for attempting to stall the bill, then go back on their deal and upset the Cons(or so it would seem). 4.The possible budget deal pisses of the BQ, they in turn make a deal with the Libs to extent the sitting of the HOC, just to get C-38 through. 5.Snap vote is called, many Cons are on their way home, some are just unavailable(2 with cancer treatment). They would have needed all MP's if ever to outnumber the Lib/NDP coalition and bring them down on a budget vote. Kilgour & O'brien are wildcards, who knows how they will vote? And to top it all off.... 6. The run to the media, pissed as hell screaming trickery and sneakness, concede defeat on both the budget & ssm and vow to fix all of this if they are voted in. (Nice little campaign strategy) They are so low in the polls right now & cannot afford an election, because the NDP may just make the official opposition if a vote was called today!! Lastly, all they need to do is wait until Nov when Gomery starts to point fingers and jump on board, renewing Canadians hatred for wasted money. The Cons then just spam the tv & radio with big promises of change & reform and they should make a nice climb in the polls for a January election!!! Could be?

And homosexuals are not a monolithic group. Still can't answer a simple question. Given that your whole argument to this point has hinged on the concept of a"slippery slope", your abject failure to clarify how the current SSM legislation would lead to such things as incest, polygamy etc. betrays the intellectual bankruptcy of your position. In other words, you an't defend it on logical or rational or even legal grounds, so you flail about wildly. As for the above, religious freedom is legally protected in this country, The tax issue come sdown to teh idea that churches that are acting as political lobbies are no longer charitable organizations and should be treated no different from any other lobby group, tax-wise. "Pure evil"? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> How much more do I need to clarify black dog? If Canada is willing to change it laws on gays, it may also change laws for things like polygamy & incest if the case is proven to say these people have their human rights oppressed. You say incest is illegal, well so was homosexuality at one time I'm sure. We are an evolving bunch of monkeys aren't we? Now, for your other argument "religious freedom is legally protected in this country"..... This is true, but the definition of marriage was also "legally protected". That has come to an end, due to the ranting of a couple thousand vocal homosexuals & some law degrees! So, what is gonna stop these flamers from striking back at the church and getting the freedom of religion or other freedoms revoked? They have proved they have the stroke, now they will use it, because sure as shit, Canada won't stop them! It is opening Pandora's box, because these same people causing this grief want to run this country. I say lets get a referendum going and change the name of the house of commons to the house of homosexual domination!!! Blackdog I am sure you'll sign on for this!!!

Just another sad day in Canadian politics. They talk about Harper doing anything to get in power, yet Martin's tactics are a much more obvious display of clinging to power. Democracy is out the window, it about power now & Martin has it. Only Ontario has the power to take it away. Lets hope they do in January.

So by that logic anything that is now illegal will one day become legal? So how about human rights? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes, many will become legal. Like marijuana, it will be legal. There can be a case made for lots of it I'm sure. I stand for human rights, I stop at immoral needs of a few people. They have their cake(civil unions) now they want to eat it too!!! Greed and notority is the main force driving these people. Soon these same people will want freedom of religion struck down, because religious beliefs(most of them) infringe on their "human rights". Did anyone notice the pro gay protestors asking for taxes on churches?? These people are the ruination of family values and religious freedom. Many of these people are pure evil. No stopping this steam roller now. C-48 is through, C-38 is to follow next week. The only way this will get overturned is if the Canadian people open their eyes and vote in a majority Conservative gov't. That doesn't seem to promising at this point. Welcome to Canada. On a side note I found funny, I saw a pro-smoking sign that says: "Welcome to Ontario, where you can marry a fag, just can't smoke one!" Kinda funny, but rude at the same time.

Nice post. Even the Lefties & Commies here could not take that away from you. A very reasonable agrument on morals & family values. I am right of center as well, maybe more right than some. I don't consider someone who sticks to their values as a decent living person and stands up for what he believes deserves the title of bigot or fascist. There will always be a difference in opinions, but some people feel that they are so right, they need to ram it down your throat. It is wrong. So, I would not call you a bigot! Anyone here who does is quite close-minded.

I am playing the devil's advocate. I am against ssm & incest, all I am saying is what does ssm open the door to. Everyone likes to come back with incest is illegal and so was homosexuality at one time. The more you give in, the more they will take. It is a never ending story. You have to find a place to put your foot down and ssm is it! Like Aaron Tippen sings "You've got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything." We will bow to anyone with a voice and ssm is no different. How many homosexuals or bisexuals in Canada? Last I heard there were less than 1%. That means 300,000 people are deciding the fate of the defintion of marriage. It is wrong! It makes me mad to see that we cannot do anything because we have a screwed up so-called democracy that does not allow us to make a difference. We are ran by corruption!

You didn't answer the question: how does the current proposed SSM legislation (which amends the legal definition of marriage from being between "one man and one woman" to "two persons") open the door for recognition of other sexual practices? The fact is, there's nothing currently stopping any "deviants" from pushing for legal recognition, nor does the SSM legislation before the House carry any provisions which would enable such recognition. The Bible contains many prohibitions which are routinely ignored by the vast majority of people, even ardent religious people. Still, God does nothing. So you'll have to excuse me for not taking pronouncements about the divine nature of our impending doom very seriously. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> An incestuous relationship can be 2 persons can it not?? Answer you question?

How? What's stopping them from making their case now? SSM legislation doesn't change the Criminal Code. Nor are the prohibitions on incest or polygamy contained therein discriminatory, as they apply equally to all citizens. In other words, you're comparing apples to plywood. SSM has been a legal right enjoyed by almost 90 per cent of Canadians fro well over a year now. Yet God has so far failed to smite any of teh provinces and the territory where gay marriage is a fact of life. Is the Almighty simply waiting for the federal government's decsion before the smiting begins? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> How long ago was it that homsexuality was a crime? I think anal sex is against the law in Georgia still. So the case will stand for polygamists & incest supporters, eventually in a country like Canada(pushovers) it won't be long. Incest is a stretch, but Polygamy isn't. I think the BC polygamists are starting to gain recognition. I guess you could say incest is wrong because the offspring is very handicapped & deformed, but what offspring can homsexuals produce??? And if that incestuous relationship is loving & consentual, why is it hurting the institution of marriage??? I am strongly against all of this, but ssm is opening the door! As far as your trash on God & the Bible, you make light of religious folks saying nothing will come to those who do wrong according to the Bible. This is where I believe you are wrong. They will be punished. You may think it is funny, but you are a person of no faith. Judgement day is coming, I hope you enjoy the end result!!!

Ya, that's why %70.4 of Canadians voted for a party that supported SSM in the last election. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Was SSM the top issue in the past election? If not, then I don't think you can interpret the election results as an endorsement of SSM. For me, SSM wasn't even in the top 10 issues on my mind when I cast my ballot. It's an issue of minor importance to the future of the country. -k <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Good Point Kimmy, 5 years ago ssm was not even thinkable. Now the Liberals act like it was their idea from day one! Funny! I still say this opens the door for more sexual deviants to make a case for whatever their issues is. As many have said, the government should stay out of their bedroom & so should the church. What will happen is, the gov't will stay out of it and their will be more polygamists & incest freaks looking for more human rights. And why shouldn't they? They are being persecuted for their beliefs! They were born this way, they can't help it. They should not be oppressed by a bunch of bigots like us straights & gays with all our rights!!!! Does this arguement sound familiar? It should.... it is the same one the pro-gays are making....and who are you to say they are wrong? If we are talking about human rights!!!! This is where this is going.....and we are going to hell in a handbasket with them all. All we can hope is God will save us from being treated like the rest and spare us! When he actually burns Sodom & Gomorrah again. SSM is leading us down the road to ruin with the Liberal party driving...buckle up!

I know I get tired of hearing hysterical pronouncments about how not legalizing same sex marriage will jeapordize all marriages; lead to rampant outbreaks of bestiality, incest and polygamy; and inevitably lead to the breakdown of society itself. Oh wait. Sorry, those are arguments advanced by same sex marriage opponnents. No fanaticism or self-righteousness there, nosiree. As for self-importance, what could be more pompous, persumptuous and self-aggrandizing than those who claim to know the mind of God? But hey, god forbid a bunch of people who have been traditionally marginalized, ridiculed, ghettoized, abused and discriminated against actually take a strong stand on an issue that matters to them. And if they must, can't they do it quietly so as not to upset our delicate sensibilities? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do." Luke 23:34 Blackdog, I don't see much hope for you. Hopefully there are some who will see the error of their ways!

It is just more proof that Canada will fall for anyone with a voice and the right public appeal. http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...71179_114862071 The Liberals are now extending the house of commons sitting until this bill is passed. "On Tuesday, Liberal House Leader Tony Valeri said the government is declaring Bill C-38, which would change the legal definition of marriage in Canada, a matter of national interest." If it truly is a matter of national interest, lets have a referendum!!! Lets see what John Q Canadian thinks of same sex marriage. Bet it would die and the world would be a better place!! Instead, we will bow to what a few people want and change our laws. It is disgusting.

It is wrong, we are changing our laws to accomidate a small number of people. It makes me sick, that such a small group of people could cause such a shit storm. Canada is full of a bunch of pushover pussies. When will we take a stand on ANYTHING? I think I will start the constitutional right to marry your pets! What a country!

Nice post Kimmy, so true!! The poor poor oppressed people of Canada!

Mona, Who are you trying to bait with your "mixed heritage"? Why not simply woman versus man? You got issues lady! Anyone who responds to the voting is asking for a shitstorm!

If the NDP were ever to make a government in Canada, we would be broke, stoned, heating our homes with solar power, driving electric cars and making $1000/month. Jack and his buddies would be making $1,000,000/month and the welfare people would be getting $2000/month. Our deficit would be through the roof and we'd be the laughing stock of the world. Fortunately, we'd all be so stoned, we'd think they were"laughing with us"!!!