Pct2017

Two problems with your argument. First, you equate high pay for teachers with teacher quality. And teachers love that argument. Trouble is, they are a vocational group that relies entirely on union security for continued employment. In other words, you can pay a good teacher more money and you will still have a good teacher. You can pay a crappy teacher more money and you will still have a crappy teacher. Either way, they are teachers for life as their union will protect them from the day they are hired until the day they retire. So, pay has absolutely nothing to do with teacher quality. As a matter of fact, the exact opposite could be argued. You could reduce pay for teachers and you would not affect the quality of teachers for the exact same reasons stated above. Second, I am sorry but there is a huge difference between the private and public sectors. The basic difference between working in the private sector and in the public sector is wages, hours worked and benefit package. The private sector has always been the home of long hours and better pay than their government employed counterparts. That just simply has always been the case. When most kids graduate from university, they make the choice between lifestyle (public sector job) and pay (private sector job). Then in the 1990's, the gap began to grow on the benefits side, particularly in pensions. There was a huge push in industry to do away with defined benefit pensions for salaried positions, replacing them with defined contribution pensions. This has never happened in the public sector. The difference is huge, but is rarely acknowledged by public sector unions. So, yes, you could argue that teachers should be paid the same as professionals in the private sector, but do you really think that they would be willing to accept longer work hours and a reduction in benefits like pensions?

Here is a greatest hits list of citations posted just on this thread from our young friend Socialist. He is plenty capable of playing that one string banjo, finding websites that support his curious view of the world, but to ask him to support a statement that would require real data is simply never, ever going to happen. I have asked before and I will ask again, Socialist, if you are as maxed out on time as a teacher as you purport to be, how do you have so much time to surf the web and find wacked out websites? And this list is just for this thread. Think how impressive it would be if I had bothered with any of the other topics on this forum. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-teachers-vote-overwhelmingly-yes-in-strike-vote-1.2563413 http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/judge-grants-bcs-request-to-stay-decision-on-teachers-bargaining-pending-appeal/article17113956/ http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-teachers-federation-wins-2m-in-damages-from-province-1.2513211 http://www.vancourier.com/news/court-sides-with-b-c-teachers-federation-on-bargaining-1.803825 http://www.p21.org/storage/documents/4csposter.pdf http://www.bctf.ca/uploadedFiles/Public/Parents/ParentLetterJobAction_en.pdf http://www.teachersolidarity.com/sites/teachersolidarity/files/research/Neoliberalism_and_Ed_Reform_CompleteProofs.pdf http://www.bctf.ca/uploadedFiles/Public/Parents/ParentLetterJobAction_en.pdf http://rabble.ca/news/2014/03/bc-teachers-math-lesson-workers-labour-rights-stability http://www.academia.edu/726482/Resisting_the_Common-Nonsense_of_Neoliberalism_A_Report_from_British_Columbia http://www.bctf.ca/publications/NewsmagArticle.aspx?id=20410 https://bctf.ca/publications/NewsmagArticle.aspx?id=21900 http://bc.ctvnews.ca/b-c-must-pay-2m-to-teachers-over-class-size-court-battle-1.1658562 http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/EJ987320.pdf http://socialistalternative.ca/posts/650 http://www.alternet.org/6-reasons-teachers-unions-are-good-kids http://vancouverobserver.com/news/bc-government-appeals-court-ruling-slamming-its-abuse-public-education-bargaining-rights http://www.news1130.com/2014/04/04/teachers-and-the-province-no-closer-to-reaching-agreement/?cid=dlvr.it http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/bc-teachers-initial-strike-action-poses-safety-issues-for-students-says-government-negotiator/article17840273/ https://www.jacobinmag.com/2013/07/the-liberal-education-reform-revolt/

Not sure what your source of information is, but in BC the corporate rate has remained unchanged since 2008 and sits at 26% when combined with the fed rate. It was 27% prior to that. This is pretty much in the middle of the "have" provinces which range from 25 to 27%. Definitely the maritime provinces and the Territories have higher rates, but obviously fewer corporations to tax. I am no tax expert, but I have never seen a direct link between the carbon tax and corporate tax rates. As for the $120k tax rate, I am not sure where you are going with that but it is just simply not true. BC is at the low end of income tax rates for all income categories except for very high earners, where they are in the middle of the pack. For instance, if you make less than around $75,000 in BC (what I would call low to middle income), your marginal rate is between 5.06 and 7.70% (this is for the provincial tax only, but the federal is consistent for all provinces and territories). This is slightly more than Ontario (by less than 0.5%) but less than any other province or territory. It is actually around 1/3 of what you would pay in Quebec and about 1/2 of what you would pay in most other provinces/territories. The top marginal provincial rate of 16.8% for income over $150k is actually the 5th highest out of the 13 provinces/territories. When you specify $120k, BC's marginal rate is the 8th highest, or 6th lowest, depending on your political lens. But most definitely not the lowest. I don't get why anyone would post something like you did. It took 34 seconds to look up this information. The word "apparently" really should be abolished. Don't be lazy. Look it up next time before wasting everyone's time. http://www.kpmg.com/Ca/en/IssuesAndInsights/ArticlesPublications/PersonalTaxRates/Federal-and-Provincial-Income-Tax-Rates-and-Brackets-andSurtaxes.pdf

"You yourself point out that you couldn't stand being a teacher, and that is indeed part of the job." Actually I said I would not be able to stand being a teacher because it would mean being around teachers for 5.5 hours per day. That would be an unfathomable torture to me. "A friend of mine quit his job as a lawyer to go back for his Bachelor of Education and he's basically unavailable due to the schedule." Having a full schedule is totally different from having a difficult schedule. "Corporate trainers don't teach at the same intensity, with the same energy requirements as classroom teachers that's for sure." Not sure what corporate trainers have to do with any of this. Where did that one come from? "The real error is in going down this path to begin with. The fact is that this job is done based on collective bargaining, period. Obviously, they would be paid less if that weren't the case. The idea that economic realities follow some kind of rules of virtue is mostly incorrect. It's the market that drives wages, and if you have a monopoly on the market then you have a great control of costs." I have read this several times and I still don't have a clue what you are trying to get at. I have read your other posts on this thread and find them generally to be well written with balance, even if they do tend towards the left side of the spectrum. But, what are you trying to say here? Is the sole job of a teacher to partake in collective bargaining? And if public sector wages were driven by the labour market, then our teachers out here in BC would be seeing their wages drop on each contract simply because there are more teachers than there are jobs. I am not saying this would be right, but I am just flummoxed by your statement. And where does the reference to Russia fit in?

Jeez, you are sucking me back into this fray. I did want to step aside as I feel that my work here is done, but then you play the one card that I have waited so patiently for. OK, let's explore that favourite card for teachers far and wide to play. First, let us drop the nonsense about if I were to simply observe for a day in a classroom, I would see the teacher's light and bring out my chequebook to give you a raise personally. When my kids were in elementary, both my wife and I spent as much time as our jobs would allow helping out both in class and at the school in general. So, yes, I have been in a classroom, and no, it was not a particularly daunting place. But, you asked me to teach for a day, not observe. In order for me to go into a class and teach, I would have to go back to university and get my degree in Education. Not a big deal, as that would only take one to two years, depending on which province I am in. And let us face it, a one to two year vacation taking basket weaving would be nice. But, by natural extension of your argument, you are going to have to take care of my job while I am teaching. So now, you are going back to university for five years in which you will spend most of your time curled up in a ball wondering what hit you. So let's say you do somehow muddle through (I have been waiting three or four years by now). Well, hang on, you are still not ready to take my job even for a day. No, I have something called a professional association that requires you work under the mentorship of a senior professional for a couple of years before being able to call yourself a professional. All the while, I am still waiting, ready to go because teachers do not have a professional association (I speak of BC here, but it would not shock me if it were true for the rest of Canada), they only have a union. So, seven very long years later (and of course this is all fiction because you would have flunked out in the first year), we are ready to switch for the day. Now, I would hate every minute of it because I would be surrounded by teachers all day long. The kids and the teaching would be easy enough, but the 5.5 hours of non-stop whining by my co-workers would drive me to alcohol. Meanwhile, across town, you would roll into work at 8:30 and my mean old boss would jump down your throat for being 2 hours late. Then you would would stare in wonder as your co-workers grab a coffee and take it back to their stations around 10. What about recess you would scream at them. Lunch, yup, you can go have lunch. Unless you are behind because you showed up at 8:30, in which case you now have a working lunch. Then the killer. 3:00 pm rolls around and nobody is making a move for their cars. WFT. 4:00, still not moving. Jesus, it is 5 o'clock. What is this, a salt mine? Finally, 5:30 rolls around and people starting packing it up. You are drained. You maybe muddled through the work, but could you do it again tomorrow? So, yes, I could teach if I were to go back to school, but ask yourself very honestly, could you make the switch that you are talking about.

What the, oh hang on, it is April 1. Good one there Socialist. You really had me going there. I bet April 1 is a huge day in the young Socialist household. Imagine one day in each year where everyone pays homage to you personally. It must be like Christmas holidays, Easter break, Spring Break, summer holidays, pro-d days, snow days, exam week, sick days, I just don't feel like teaching today days and most of June and December all rolled up in one.

I recently took part in a discussion which compared Socialist to a village idiot. To say this was wrong, insensitive and mean spirited is an understatement. So I am on bended knee hoping the village idiot community can find it in their hearts to forgive me. You have done nothing to me to justify such total disregard for your feelings of worth and self esteem. I hope that time can heel the psychological damage that I have brought upon you. In closing, to village idiots both near and far, I promise I will be much more careful in choosing comparatives moving forward. Humbly PCT2017

Ah, can we speak honestly here. Even if Socialist takes the time to compose the most grammatically correct sentence the world has ever seen, the best he can shoot for is to be a well spoken village idiot. The words would all be in the correct order, but the message would still be moronic. Hey, listen there Socialist, this has been fun, but alas, I have grown weary of your one string banjo concerts. Adieu my young friend. As your hero Karl Marx once said, "Question everything". But in your case, what he actually meant was "Question everything on those insipid websites you keep reading while your class is watching yet another video."

I believe you will get a slightly better tax estimate on the following site. It is a bit more sophisticated. I have always found it to be accurate to within a couple of bucks. http://www.taxtips.ca/calculators/taxcalculator.htm Something that a lot of folks out here in BC miss is that we do pay a much lower tax rate than most of the rest of Canada. If that same teacher lived in Ontario, her tax rate would be 21.9% vs the BC rate of 20.2%. It would not be unreasonable to take this argument one step further by saying that the same teacher making $75,000 also gets an additional 25% in salary in the way of loading costs such as pension, MSP, dental etc etc. But she does not pay any taxes on that portion. So, in actual fact, she is making $93,750, or at least that is what she is costing the taxpayer, and is only paying $15,200 in income tax. Now we are at 16.2% taxation level vs 26.0% for corporations. Those demon Neo-Liberals here in BC have done a pretty good job of allowing us middle class workers to keep as much of our pay as we can. But, alas, to some like our young friend Socialist, until the day that those greedy corporations are driven out of Canada so that the middle class can pay the entire tax burden, the crusade continues.

Plink a plink a plink You are just having the worst day ever, are you not. Did that mean old school principle make you work well into your sixth hour at school today? OK, so general corporations in BC pay 26% corporate tax when the federal and provincial portions are combined. That number is really, really easy to find on the net. Even you should be able to find it. Oh, on second thought, I'd better help you. You seem pretty tired today. http://www.kpmg.com/Ca/en/IssuesAndInsights/ArticlesPublications/TaxRates/Federal-and-ProvincialTerritorial-Tax-Rates-for-Income-Earned-General-2013-2014.pdf Hey, did you get the irony of citing KPMG which is Jenny Kwan's least favourite accounting firm. OK, fair enough. You have to be out here in BC to get that one. But, you scream at the computer screen, that is nothing compared to the massive amounts of taxes that poor, middle class teachers have to pay. Well, let's have a peek at that. Let us say that a teacher makes $75,000/year in BC. Want to guess what she pays in taxes? Go ahead. Give you a hint. It is $15,200, assuming that she does not defer any income in an RRSP. Wellll, that works out to only 20.2% combined federal and provincial tax. Hmm, maybe our middle class teacher is not doing so badly on this whole tax thingy after all. Man, you are just not doing well at all today. BTW, could you give me one quote whereby I have ever slagged any union other than the BCTF? So let us drop this idea that I am railing against all unions. Just our dear old teacher friends.

Well, that is kind of a quirky thing for you to say. Let us have a look at that. First, can I assume from your rather self righteous tone that you believe personalized learning to be a good thing no? Well, it was those rat bastard neo- liberals who introduced the Education improvement Act. One of the elements introduced in that Act was personalized learning plans. But, I bet you say, it would be typical for the corporate loving neo-libs to not fund it right. Well, no. If I recall, there was about $ 100 million assigned to education (all new dollars - the Learning Improvement Fund) in that Act. Yeah, but those privatizing scoundrels were forced into it by our heroic BCTF you assume. Well, this is where it gets interesting. The Educational Improvement Act was also known as Bill 22. Yes, the same Bill that the BCTF took to court to have overturned. So, as of right now my young friend, no there is no push for personalized learning in BC, due entirely to the BCTF. Hmmm, someone needs to educate himself.

Just a point of curiosity. Do you ever read what you write after you post and say, "Wow, I really am an ass."? Just curious. So, in your universe, if someone has seen nothing but complete utter self serving garbage on a website time after time and they choose to not waste time on it this time, that person is relegated to having a lack of critical thinking. Wonder what colour the sky is in your alternate world. Look, I appreciate that you seem to have all the time in the world (do they measure time in your world the same as here on Earth) to search out websites that validate your views, which again is weird, given that you are quick to bemoan just how long your workday is, but maybe you do it while you are firing up a video in class. Maybe spend a bit of time questioning them rather than slathering over them. That would be critical thinking. Hey look, we are never going to agree on anything. As I have said to you, I actually have sympathy for you as a person because if you only know how to turn left, you will spend your whole life going in circles. You need to chill and enjoy life, but I expect that these words, like everything else that is said to you by anyone who does not agree with you will be lost on you. Be well my friend and maybe this summer go out and hike in the Annapurnas or run a marathon or bike a century or do something other than fretting over a socialist war that has long since been lost.

"The government has it in for public education. They have been underfunding BC education for years. That's why the Federation has to stand up against the neo-liberal intrusion. I don't think you understand what neo-liberalism is. There are many great articles out there that will enlighten you." Plink a plink a plink. Second verse: Plink a plink a plink. BTW, you get sent to the corner of the classroom wearing a dunce hat for citing Rabble, then you show that no lesson was learned as the next "source" you cite is the BCTF website. You are truly one of the slowest learners I have ever seen.

That was certainly a balanced piece of reporting. The part about the fact that those bastard neo-libs that the people of BC recently re- elected yet again have been able to negotiate collective agreements with 100% of all public sector unions which do not have teachers in them was somehow omitted. Guess that part got edited out. Guess the other part that got left out due to limited space on a website page is the part about all bargaining has been suspended until April because the union said it would be "impossible" to meet during Spring Break. Other than that and about a thousand other glaring omissions, it was outstanding reporting.

Ever wonder what a one string banjo sounds like? Well, young Socialist has given quite the concert on this board. In 27 posts, he has used the term " neo-liberal" ( sometimes even he gets a bit lazy and uses neo-libs, but we have to assume those are days when his 5.5 hours of work have left him drained) 16 times and on 11 times he has stated outright that if you question his superior knowledge about education then you are against all forms of learning. Plink a plink a plink. You will learn all too soon that to ask him a legit question is futile as all he knows is throw away lines that they teach him down at the teacher union hall. Oh, but he is great with cartoons. Socialist, obviously you and I see the world through completely different lenses, but at the end of the day, I do feel sorry for you. You are way too young to be bitter at the world. No, it is not a perfect but you should chill a bit and enjoy you place in it.

So, what you are saying is that all hope is lost for our friend Socialist? This is a sad day indeed. I must say you could have been a bit more gentle in breaking the news to him. You cruel, cruel person.

OK, hands up everyone who read all 318 pages of Socialist's reference material. C'mon, can I get a show of hands. Anyone? One person? Socialist, did you at least read it? I will be first to admit to reading about 4 paragraphs and when the tears of laughter made it impossible to see the screen anymore, I gave up. Good lord, has anyone outside of North Korea ever read this entire paper? OK, I take all of the blame for Socialist thinking that 318 pages of Marxist drivel was a relevant source of information. I mocked him for using cartoons as his source of cited reference, so I guess I kind of forced him into this. I feel really bad. On the plus side there my young Socialist friend, as was so often the case, Sir Winston pretty much nailed your situation perfectly when he said, and I paraphrase, If you are not a socialist when you are under 30, then you have no heart. If you are still a socialist when you are over 30, then you have no brain. By your photo, I would say there is still hope for you.

As I said, ask a simple question and get rhetoric and cartoons in response. So, let us explore your "answer". 10 months ago, the public says in no uncertain terms that we reject socialism, but instead we are going to support the party who will manage our taxes properly. Now, 85% of us have changed completely and are going to go to bat for the most reviled public sector union in the province? Strange logic. And, at the end of the day, when the BCTF goes on it's semi-annual strike or job action, really, who cares what the "public" thinks one way or the other. We have elected a government to do a job, and they will do that job as requested. They should in no way change that job just because some bitter little socialists write in a blog that they are going to stomp their feet and hold their breath if they do not get a raise. BTW, how do you explain (not that I will get a meaningful answer from you) that once the much loved court case got away from Susan Griffin, the next judge to see it was willing to stay the findings until it goes to appeal. This was very unusual, and in my mind shows that the case is not as ironclad as it appears. Don't get me wrong, I think that the Liberals were wrong in tearing up the contracts, but they were wrong for the right reasons. I just don't think that the ruling would have been stayed if there was no doubt it would survive the next level of scrutiny at the Supreme Court of Canada.

Point of curiosity. How do you reconcile your view that the majority of British Columbians are teacher loving card carrying socialists with the results of May 14, 2013. I mean it should be fairly clear to all but the most intellectually challenged that we said no to socialism and by extension, no to reckless spending on self serving groups like the BCTF. And the future for the NDP and by extension, the BCTF looks pretty grim with the Greens getting traction and the NDP tearing itself apart (the fallout from Kwangate in that party is going to be massive). Anyway, I know by now that you never answer questions asked of you, You only know how to drag out tired old slogans and cartoons, so I will not hold mr breath.....

Socialist, Hate to nitpick, but don't you think that the genius's behind your latest cartoon should take some math classes. They yak about 12 - 16 hour days, then show a pie chart that maxes out at 14 hours. The really humorous part is the 8 hour standard work day. Was this produced for the Korean school system? And I particularly enjoyed the part about 2 - 4 weeks of continuing ed, 3 weeks to plan a curriculum that is given to you and 4, count them, 4 weeks to get school ready. C'mon, you must have had one heck of a good yuck on that part of the cartoon. Is this the level that you teach at? If so I take back my previous comment about you potentially being a good teacher. Sorry, I asked you for a serious answer and you respond with cartoons. 2/10 redo. And please, no more cartoons. They diminish your already paper thin credibility. I think you should seriously rehash your cute little tag line to "Piss me off and I paper you six feet under in cartoons"

Maybe you did not understand my question, or maybe it was too complicated or mayhaps you just don't want to answer. But I have to say, that is the most bizarre answer I have ever seen to a pretty simple question.

I have another question for the teachers on this board. It is often stated by teachers that they can justify only working 192 days per year ( it is actually more like 175 by the time you render out pro- d's, exam weeks etc, but what the heck, let's use 192) by the extraordinary amount of hours worked each day. OK, so you are in front of a class for 5.5 hours per day, yet it is not unusual to hear teachers lament about average work days of 10 plus hours. Average!!! So, let us take an example of a grade 9 math teacher who has taught this course for 3 years at two terms per year. Start with the assumption that Pythagarus (sp?) is dead, so his theory is not going to change. And please take into account that most middle or high school tests and exams are multiple choice and take seconds to mark in a scantron. How does that teacher stretch out a 5.5 hour day to double that?

Given that this thread is about the BCTF, could a member of that union (Socialist?) please explain to me why all other public sector unions in BC have quietly found labour solutions and signed collective agreements that are current without any job action. What is it about teachers and their union that make it virtually impossible to arrive at a collective agreement without either mediation or legislation. Please refrain from the standard "Well, they stripped our contract in 2002". They did the same to the Health Care Workers, yet that union can still negotiate a contract with the govt. If all other unions can work with the duly elected govt, why can the BCTF not do the same? I await enlightenment.

And what is our heroic teacher in this apartment saying? Let's listen: "Yipee, it's summer. I can stay up all night if I want" Or "Jeez, living in an apartment block full of people who have real jobs sucks. Nobody can stay up and play." Or "Yipee, it's Christmas break. I can stay up all night if I want." Or "Hey, I don't have to be at work until 8:30. Think I'll catch Jimmy Fallon." Or "Yipee, it's Spring Break. I can stay up all night if I want." Or "Man, I have to prep for my Socials class tomorrow. I have taught the same class for five years, but maybe Sir John A is no longer our first Prime Minister. I'd best check" Or "Yipee, it's Exam Week. I can stay up all night if I want." Or "Jim Iker, I am not getting off the phone until you demand that I get two weeks bereavement time when my cousin's hamster dies." Or "Yippee, it's a Pro-D day tomorrow. I can stay up all night if I want." Or "Now, if I go out and get my Masters when I am 49, that will maximize my pension. Man, I am going to be up all night trying to figure out how to fleece the public purse to the max." Or "Yippee, it's a snow day. I can stay up all night if I want." Or Well, you get the idea. Sleep tight you selfless teacher, sleep tight.