Harper Links Liberal to Air India

[Spike22]

PM Harper,

Please kick the Tamil Tigers and other /terorist freaks to the curb. We know who they are now get rid of them...

[Canadian Blue]

Great debate, Hitler references, racism accusations, drive by smears, etc.

[Spike22]

Great debate, Hitler references, racism accusations, drive by smears, etc.

Excrement don't ya love it!

[Catchme]

Paul Martin was the keynote speaker at a fund raiser for the Tamil Tigers, and he was questioned on it, he called his opponents racists.

It wasn't the first time and it won't be the last time that..ministers have been at events or fundraisers ... However, linking the minister as supportive of terrorism is a smear tactic.

It is actually more than just a smear tactic. There are lots of factors at play in this dirty ugly political Karl Rove move, played by Harper.

Housekeeping Details:

Tamil Tigers were NOT declared a terrorist organization until Harper made them so last year. How nice eh, make an organization a terrorist organization, and then wait a year, until you think people have forgotten it was your government who declared them a terrorist organziation, to declare your opposition as having ties to a terrorist organization. This begs the question; did Harper make them a terrorist organization so he could say the Liberals had ties to terrorist organizations?

The 1st truth is:

In 2000, when Martin was Finance Minister, he went to a New Years Tamil dinner as key note speaker, and NOT all Tamil people are members of the Tamili Tigers. But past that even, remember the Tamili Tigers were NOT classified as a terrorist organization until Harper did it last year, and 2001 had not happened. So, in fact, there were none of the terrorist orgaizations, who are currently listed today as being ones, considered so then.

At that time, there was a concerted effort being made, by Canada and other countries around the world, to foster relations between the Sri Lanka government and the Tamil Tigers to stop the incredible violence occurring and children being made into soldiers. Most of the diplomacy was going on at dinners and conferences and by meeting with people of influence, who can make/foster change without more violence and chaos occurring.

That is how diplomacy and soft power works, and that was what gave Canada its "soft power" around the world. A much more effective power, than bullying, lies, breaches of Nationl Security and dirty politics.

Diplomacy is a very much different thing than, how the CPC perceive things should be done, who seem to think think that smears/lies, playing politics with National Security and blundering around the planet causing chaos and blowing peoples to bit in retribution, is "real" power. It isn't it is only destructive and evil.

The 2nd truth:

The Liberal government at that time, even though they were fostering cease fire negotiations through diplomacy, were moving to block the Tigers from fund raising in Canada. It was Lloyd Axworthy LIBERAL Foreign Affairs Mnister who was leading the charge against them fund raising in Canada. And it was the Liberals who ordered the RCMP investigations into the affairs of the Tamil Tigers. The measures that were put in place by Axworthy to stop this fund raising were decried by Joe Clark.

So, it is more than a bit disenguous of the CPC, to try and say the Liberals were supportive of the Tamil Tigers, or any other terrorist organization in 2000, or indeed any years beyond that.

Next Truth:

It was the Liberals who started the Air India investigation in the first place, it was Brian Mulroney who refused to do so. For the CPC to try now and come back and say the Liberals want to block the investigation, is beyond insanity. These are created lies to try smear the Liberals because they do not support further use of 2 sunset clauses, that should never have been in the first place.

Next truth:

Harper and, the Van Sun, tried to use Hayer's saying how shocked he was to find out that Saini, Baines father in law knew the man who shot and wounded his father. That's interesting spin, because Hayer's father was also part of the Khalistanis, and Hayer's father was not just a supporter of the Khalistanis he even wrote a book praising the Khalistan movement and the leader of the movement. Something that Baines father in law never did. Hayer's father also knew the man who shot him, so it is highly unlikely that Hayer is shocked about anything, seeing how involved with the Kalistanis his FATHER was..

Nor was Baines father in Law found by CSIS, or the RCMP to have any connection to the Air India affair, the only thing that ever occured was, that Baines father in law was once interviewed by the RCMP as part of the full investigation that lead to charges and convictions, conducted by the Liberal government. In actual fact, Hayer himself, who the CPC and Van Sun have used to try and smear Baines/Liberals, has CLOSER ties to the Kalistanis, who killed his father than Baines has, which is actually none.

Conclusion:

Harper's faulty logic appears to be, that because Baines father in law, was once interviewed by the RCMP 21 years ago, both he and the Liberals are connected to terrorists. That fact that Harper is making guilt, by the flimiest of extensions, then Harper himself, and the CPC are by then quilty of the same thing, by the same type of extension. Harper and the Van Sun's obvious connection to Hayer, makes them then connected to the Kalistanis terrorists themselves, and then they also would be even more closely connected to other crimes of: trade securities fraud, illegal smuggling and marijuanna grow ops.

We all know the tale of John Reynolds, and accused in a Vancouver Stock Exchange sercurities fraud, then there was Gurdish Mangat who was a Canadian Alliance candidate in the 2000 election, that was charged with deeds to shield a drug ring in 2004. and there was the CPC BC Interior candidate Derek Zeissman, who has been charged with smuggling.

Larger Issue at Hand

The bigger and perhaps equally as concerning issue is; Harper's playing politics with National Security

WHO leaked sealed RCMP and government documents to the Vancouver Sun form the CPC government, or the RCMP?

What HARPER and the Van Sun used, were secert and sealed RCMP documents.

The families from the Air India Inquiry were just decrying last week; "why were all the government documents to the investigation blacked out."

They were told it was because the investigation documents were sealed and secret because of Natrional Security.

[Argus]

No, that's pure politics. But the Conservatives do have principals, and a huge chunk of their MPs got into politics to improve things, not to enrich themselves.

So wait... No single Liberal MP has a shred of morals, but a large number of Conservative MPs are purely involved for altruistic reasons?

That's correct. People join the NDP because their political leanings go that way, and the Tories for the same reason. Nobody joins the NDP or Tories because they are satisfied with how things are going and want it to continue. If you join the Liberal Party you're basically saying "This is how Canada should be run. I support this." So why join then? Not to improve things. No, you join the Liberals because you know they're the natural governing power and you want to get yourself a piece of the pie. You want power, money and prestige. It's a whole other mindset from those who join the NDP or Tories or Greens for that matter.

[Argus]

Martin was informed by multiple sources beforehand that the group was nothing more than a front for the Tamil Tigers, and that their fund raiser wasn't going to blankets but guns. Martin simply did not care. He has never cared about terrorism. He and Chretien underfunded the RCMP, underfunded CSIS, underfunded the military and the coast guard, disbanded the ports police, and refused to give Customs and Border posts the tools they needed to do their jobs. Martin cared about nothing but the votes he could get from segments of the Sri Lankan community, which is again why he and Chretien refused to add the Tamil Tigers to our list of terrorist groups.

As for the direct quote, without searching I can't find better than this below. This was Martin's response in the House as to why he attended this fund raiser despite advice from CSIS, Foreign Affairs and the US. Picture him standing there in all his pompous, self righteous majesty.

"Mr. Speaker, what I am concerned about is the sense of values that is being

demonstrated by the official opposition. Let us make it very clear, and I

do not believe I am only speaking for the government but I am speaking for

all Canadians, that there are not two kinds of citizenship in this country.

When people land upon our shores they are entitled to celebrate their

heritage and they are equal Canadians with all of us."

There were Conservatives who met with the same group. In fact, they recruited a member of the organization to run as candidate.

I don't know what conservatives might or might not have met with members of this group, or what information those conservatives (PC or CP) might have had at the time. I do know that Martin was warned ahead of time by three seperate agencies. It was not only wrong to attend, but it was sleazy to imply in the House that those asking questions were somehow motivated by a dislike of Sir Lankans. The smugness of him and Chretien as he said it was the turning point for me. Up until then I had, if not liked the man, at least sort of respected him. My disdain and contempt for the man was absolute after that.

[guyser]

Score for the day? Harper: 2 Dion: 0 Dems de breaks.

Hey whatever floats your boat , but that ocean is lonely since you seem to be the only one who thinks the CPC won .

It seems that most think that Harper went way over the line, and not in trying to insult Bains, but in trying to link the Libs to catering to terrorism.

Hey, I like the fact that Harper is starting to show his colours. His closet will be fun folly for Libs should this be the way to fight. And when Harper gets cornered , he comes off bad, real bad. But hey, he started down this road. Hope he likes it.

[geoffrey]

Catchme, the Tamil Tigers regularly attack civilians and non-military targets in their quest for violent independance. They are terrorists by every definition.

Sure Martin can get off the hook by saying they didn't have that name, but then I must ask the question. Even if they weren't terrorists, does he endorse fundraisers for those that kill innocent people in Sri Lanka?

Likely not, Martin seems like a pretty rational person. But something political obvious gets the Liberals all excited over having these terrorists in Canada, and not stopping their community from sending large sums of Canadian earned money overseas to kill people in Sri Lanka.

I don't think Tamil Tigers are likely Conservative voters...

[guyser]

No, that's pure politics. But the Conservatives do have principals, and a huge chunk of their MPs got into politics to improve things, not to enrich themselves.

So wait... No single Liberal MP has a shred of morals, but a large number of Conservative MPs are purely involved for altruistic reasons?

That's correct. People join the NDP because their political leanings go that way, and the Tories for the same reason. Nobody joins the NDP or Tories because they are satisfied with how things are going and want it to continue.

Fridays are always a good day to have a laugh. Thank you argus for this one.

Yup, all Tories good, sign on for only altruistic values. Liberals all bad and only line pockets.

Will you have another even better one next week? LOL !

[Catchme]

Sure Martin can get off the hook by saying they didn't have that name, but then I must ask the question. Even if they weren't terrorists, does he endorse fundraisers for those that kill innocent people in Sri Lanka?

Likely not, Martin seems like a pretty rational person. But something political obvious gets the Liberals all excited over having these terrorists in Canada, and not stopping their community from sending large sums of Canadian earned money overseas to kill people in Sri Lanka.

I don't think Tamil Tigers are likely Conservative voters...

This topic is not about Martin and having a New Years dinner with Tamils in 2000, this about Harper's treacherous lying actions. Something which I have noted you and other CPC supporters avoided discussing.

Harper made the Tamil Tigers terrorists, then a year later accuses the Liberals of having terrorist ties.

Axworthy, a Liberal, did stop fund raising back in 2001, do you not read things fully? Joe clark took exception to the actions even.

Why would any Asian ethic person vote for the CPC, considering the racist implication inherent in Harper's actions?

[hiti]

Sri Lanka is no better than the Tamil Tigers.

Quote: Tomorrow, a magistrate in the eastern town of Trincomalee will review eyewitness testimony against a dozen security force personnel implicated in the case. An unofficial report by the special investigator for Sri Lanka's National Human Rights Commission alleges that the security forces were responsible for the killings.

http://www.ahrchk.net/statements/mainfile....statements/612/

In Sri Lanka's war on secessionist Tamils, children have also been the victims of indiscriminant bombing. In one atrocity, aircraft bombed a Jaffna schoolyard crammed with 750 children on their lunch break, murdering 34 and seriously injuring over 150 others.

"Sri Lankan soldiers have raped both women and young girls on a massive scale, and often with impunity, since reporting often leads to reprisals against the victims and their families.." World Organisation against Torture

"The Sri Lankan security forces are using systematic rape and murder of Tamil women to subjugate the Tamil population... Impunity continues to reign as rape is used as a weapon of war in Sri Lanka." Asian Human Rights Commission

"..On average, a Tamil woman is raped by members of the Sri Lankan security forces every two weeks. The real number is inevitably higher since many cases are unreported. Every two months a Tamil woman is gang-raped and murdered by the Sri Lankan security forces." Statement by NGO, Women Against Rape, at United Nations Commission on Human Rights -end quote

So now we can say that Steve and his conservatives condone terrorists as they side with Sri Lankans.

[jdobbin]

I don't know what conservatives might or might not have met with members of this group, or what information those conservatives (PC or CP) might have had at the time. I do know that Martin was warned ahead of time by three seperate agencies. It was not only wrong to attend, but it was sleazy to imply in the House that those asking questions were somehow motivated by a dislike of Sir Lankans. The smugness of him and Chretien as he said it was the turning point for me. Up until then I had, if not liked the man, at least sort of respected him. My disdain and contempt for the man was absolute after that.

The fact is that the Tories were in power and did not list this group as a terrorist organization. Mulroney was in power from 1990 to 1993. Other Conservatives met with the organization as well.

In 2006, The Conservatives had a Tamil businessman with connections to the group running.

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/st...0fd33a2&k=28254

Vincent Veerasuntharam, a Tamil businessman from Toronto who ran unsuccessfully as a Tory candidate in the January election, said the Tamil community "is quite confused and disappointed'' by the terrorist designation.

[jdobbin]

I don't think Tamil Tigers are likely Conservative voters...

But former members of that organization are god Tory candidates?

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/st...0fd33a2&k=28254

[scribblet]

Great debate, Hitler references, racism accusations, drive by smears, etc.

Seems like this is the tone of this board now, it seems to be taking a downhill dive.

[jdobbin]

That's correct. People join the NDP because their political leanings go that way, and the Tories for the same reason. Nobody joins the NDP or Tories because they are satisfied with how things are going and want it to continue. If you join the Liberal Party you're basically saying "This is how Canada should be run. I support this." So why join then? Not to improve things. No, you join the Liberals because you know they're the natural governing power and you want to get yourself a piece of the pie. You want power, money and prestige. It's a whole other mindset from those who join the NDP or Tories or Greens for that matter.

The Conservatives, in relation to the Air India Inquiry, had all those years of Mulroney to look into terrorism and "improve" things. They didn't bother to investigate in any meaningful way. And now, hypocritically, the try to tar Liberals who actually initiated the investigation. Worse, the RCMP continues to leak political documents and Harper doesn't look into that.

[jdobbin]

Seems like this is the tone of this board now, it seems to be taking a downhill dive.

Just like the House of Commons. Or society in general. Or around the family dinner table.

[Saturn]

The Conservatives, in relation to the Air India Inquiry, had all those years of Mulroney to look into terrorism and "improve" things. They didn't bother to investigate in any meaningful way. And now, hypocritically, the try to tar Liberals who actually initiated the investigation. Worse, the RCMP continues to leak political documents and Harper doesn't look into that.

Harper's attack on Bain in QP this week is one of if not the most despicable and disgusting act I've seen a Canadian politician perform. Not only does he condone what borders criminal behaviour on behalf of the RCMP - pulling political strings and arguing for secret hearings to then leak "secret" information from these hearings for political gain and to destroy lives and reputations M.Arar style - but he also dares spin a preventative measure born of the paranoia of 9/11 into a solution for a 22 year old case that the Tories ignored for 8 years under their watch and the RCMP failed to take advantage of for another 3 years that that sunset clause was in effect. Finally, his explanation for stacking the bench with conservative cronies is an attack on a relative of a backbench MP, taking advantage of RCMP leaks on "secret" hearings that he supports reading about in the newpapers and reading in the House. It is disgusting that instead of taking his responsibility to keep the RCMP from meddling in politics seriously, he encourages them and takes advantage of the RCMP abusing its powers. Harper has further shown that he is not only a lowly dictator but a weak and stupid one at that - allowing certain government agencies to take him for a ride for their own gains and against the interests of the public. If he imagines that he is scoring points with the voting public for condoning and encouraging/using such lowlife tactics, he is badly mistaken. Now I'm going to puke.

[jefferiah]

Dry heaves I bet, Saturn, since you are not really puking and are trying your damndest to be offended simply because Harper is a Tory.

[jefferiah]

Just for the record, Harper linked a Liberal MP to a character who is involved in the investigation. He never said Bains had anything to do with Air India. In fact, I dont think any of us know what Harper was going to say since he never got to read his article because the Liberals stamped their feet immediately and started bawling. But at most he was implying that Bains personal interest in the matter could jeopardize the decision over the anti-terrorist affair. That is not slander. He was not accusing anyone of a crime.

Anyhow, it seems to be a common practice with Liberals to make noise when other people are talking. I know everybody in politics does this to some degree, but I have never seen anything like the interruptions that come from Liberals. That same day on CBC Newsworld they had a panel with a member from each party to discuss "the worst crime in Canadian history" which Harper committed. Questions were posed by the interviewer and they were all alotted a time frame to respond in. The Conservative, NDP, and Bloc representatives were all considerate enough to speak only during their turns, but whenever a question was posed to the Conservative, the Liberal rep beside him began talking over him. This is one example, but it is very characteristic of the Liberals. Watch debates.

[jefferiah]

And the funny thing is once again we are hearing the Liberals trying to implicate the Tories in another so- called horrible, despicable, partisan act. It seems that using a backdrop in a press conference is a terrible crime when the backdrop is in front of Lester B. Pearson's Nobel Peace Prize. The truth is many Liberals have held press conferences in the same room and have had a backdrop in front of it as well. But nonetheless, the Liberals are now accusing the Tories of trying to hide Lester B. Pearson from the world and erase Liberal history (because maybe they are afraid Lester B. Pearson will jump out of the grave and run for PM again and be a huge threat to the Tories, I am not sure). Anyways, it is hilarious to watch them in parliament and their vindictive little faces as they spew out wrath and anger over something so insignificant, but not at all suprising, considering the fuss over Stronach in the fall, and the recent Bains affair.

[jdobbin]

Just for the record, Harper linked a Liberal MP to a character who is involved in the investigation. He never said Bains had anything to do with Air India. In fact, I dont think any of us know what Harper was going to say since he never got to read his article because the Liberals stamped their feet immediately and started bawling. But at most he was implying that Bains personal interest in the matter could jeopardize the decision over the anti-terrorist affair. That is not slander. He was not accusing anyone of a crime.

Bains said that he didn't even know his father was on the list of witnesses that might be compelled to testify.

The RCMP or someone in that office leaked the information to the Vancouver paper just that day. The Liberals, including Bains, had already taken a position on the points in question.

Harper was about to read from that newspaper article despite the fact that it wasn't related to what he was asked.

It isn't slander. It was a smear.

[Catchme]

Political neutrality, please?

RICK SALUTIN

What the PM told M (in James Bond talk) last Monday was to look into the imminent collapse of an inquiry into the 1985 Air-India bombing. The judge in charge said he might shut it down since security forces, like the RCMP, won't provide documents he needs.

That wouldn't look good for them or the government. Suddenly, Wednesday, the Vancouver Sun said it had "learned" the RCMP wanted to question the father-in-law of a Liberal MP about the bombing but might not be able to, since Liberals are going to vote against extending an anti-terror law that lets them force people to testify. It got the security guys and government off the hook while implying the Liberals were out to protect their own.

Hmm, sound familiar? Ah yes -- an RCMP letter leaked during the last election that revealed they were investigating Liberal finance minister Ralph Goodale. It altered the campaign decisively and was responsible for Stephen Harper being PM today. (That's as close to an objective fact as you get in political analysis.) Now we have another leak of RCMP information (Well, how do you think the Sun "learned" about a secret RCMP witness list?) again. The PM waves the story in Question Period, says Liberals are self-serving softies on terror; they go berserk, etc. Call me Chicken Little, but I find these mutually beneficial leaks that help police and politicians a tad troubling -- and not in this case alone.

So, now let's see, we have the RCMP, leaking documents that were lies that changed the course of the election, then we have the RCMP refusing to give the judge in the Air India inquiry any information on that documents. The judge had got documents alright, all blacked out.

Then 3 days later, we have a leak to the Vancouver Sun, of information that a judge could not get from the RCMP. And in this mix, we have a NEW acting head of the RCMP, Steven Harper's NEW National Secutiy Advisor. Yes, for the first time ever we have one of those, no deputy Prime Minsiter, but a NSA. How American of Harper, eh? Anyway, the NEW acting head of the RCMP says that she really wants the sunset clauses extended, but refuses to give the judge any info, who is investigating in the Air India Inquiry.

So we have margaret Bloodworth playing Condi Rice

We have Hillier playing Rumsfeld

And we have Sheila Fraser auditor general dumping an environment minister.

As Salutin further says:

Auditor-General Sheila Fraser dumped the environment commissioner. Ms. Fraser said it had nothing to do with the latter's criticism of government inaction, but I wonder. And Mr. Harper says he'll appoint judges who agree with him.

Isn't there supposed to be some political neutrality in these institutions? The politicization of police, army and the courts fits the Harper agenda in a way, since that agenda's so focused on crime and terror.

It also has a U.S. ring, like getting his own NSA. Attacking Liberals for being weak on terror is a classic Karl ("Bush's brain") Rove tactic.

[geoffrey]

The CJ came out with a partisan attack on Harper, let's be realistic when we talk about neutrality.

[Saturn]

Just for the record, Harper linked a Liberal MP to a character who is involved in the investigation. He never said Bains had anything to do with Air India. In fact, I dont think any of us know what Harper was going to say since he never got to read his article because the Liberals stamped their feet immediately and started bawling. But at most he was implying that Bains personal interest in the matter could jeopardize the decision over the anti-terrorist affair. That is not slander. He was not accusing anyone of a crime.

Right. He was simply reading a newspaper because QP is just so boring there is nothing else to do. The article just happened to link Mr. Bains' father-in-law to the Air India investigation. Harper had absolutely no intention to imply that Mr. Bains is related to terrorists and that Liberals do not favour extending the clauses in order to protect his father-in-law and because they like terrorists (and pedophiles if I may add).

[Saturn]

Isn't there supposed to be some political neutrality in these institutions? The politicization of police, army and the courts fits the Harper agenda in a way, since that agenda's so focused on crime and terror.

It's a very beneficial relationship - Harper gets his own private militia in the police and the military and they get their own private PM and benefactor. They lie and leak in his favour and he gives them more powers and funding. Nevermind that this is clearly against the interests of the Canadian public, who also gets to pay for it all.