John Tory breaks his promise

[trex]

Good idea. Why don't we call it Civics and Social Science?

it should be taught every year, not just once in high school.

and civics is all about politics, not world religions, i believe. or did you take a different class than me

[Leafless]

If there is a God, then God has given us everything we need and it is up to us. God has moved on to other things and we need to wish God the very best of luck.

No , God has not moved on and is proven by the fact Canada is dominated by Christians and other religions totaling 83.5%, accordind to the 2001 census.

I really don't know how you can continue to be so anti-religious and make ridiculous statements, when your tiny minority (no religious affiliation), is a laughable 16.5% and this is with a big 44.2% increase from your previous 1991 total of 12.6%. That 44.2% increase really sounds big, doesn't it. Even looks like Statistics Canada is glorifying those numbers.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/can_rel1.htm

It appears though according to this link that government actually hopes the country will fully become secular to overcome religious indifference between cultures and hopefully obliterate racism.

Even the federal government itself, appears to have a high level of contempt against Christians.

Edited October 6, 2007 by Leafless

[jennie]

Excellent, jennie and why shouldn't they if they are not part of the system and discriminated upon?

But the point is if the province supported faith based schools they would have to teach only what is in the Ontario school curriculum.

Iam getting a little tired of this secularism bit.

We have it with government, separation of church and state, but in schools only Catholics are funded and other religions are ignored.

But the point is who is going to teach the religious aspect of life, faith and morals which many people need to survive.

You seem and others seem to think it is the role of the parents when we know many parents are irresponsible themselves and some don't even bother to feed their own children properly much less teach their children to believe in a faith and have morals that help to achieve a higher level of common sense and understanding knowing right from wrong.

The last thing I want to see is more secular arrogant pagan children running around with absolutely no clue what life is about outside of the popular cultural fantasies, music, drugs and sex that lead to a senseless immoral lifestyle.

And some parents wonder why there children are out of control and they cannot do nothing with them.

I beg your pardon.

I have no problem with funding faith-based schools, so long as the religion stays in those schools.

People who send their kids to public schools in Canada do so because of the absence of religious doctrine and discrimination.

Public and "pagan" and happy thanks.

Edited October 6, 2007 by jennie

[Leafless]

I have no problem with funding faith-based schools, so long as the religion stays in those schools.

People who send their kids to public schools in Canada do so because of the absence of religious doctrine and discrimination.

Public and "pagan" and happy thanks.

Well, you are being discriminated against because your public tax dollar funds English and French Catholic schools.

I would say you are paying dearly for the absence of religious doctrine.

Edited October 6, 2007 by Leafless

[Canadian Blue]

The reason they were forced into residential schools is because they were savages.

But it didn't do any good as they refused to learn and were not backed by their elders.

One would also assume the rampant sexual, physical, and emotional abuse, didn't do the natives that much good either.

I mean if you were walking on Crown land or thinking of building a little cabin and ended up with an arrow in the back because the Indians thought it was their land dramatizes this savagery.

Because as we all know, no whites ever killed any natives.

No , God has not moved on and is proven by the fact Canada is dominated by Christians and other religions totaling 83.5%, accordind to the 2001 census.

I really don't know how you can continue to be so anti-religious and make ridiculous statements, when your tiny minority (no religious affiliation), is a laughable 16.5% and this is with a big 44.2% increase from your previous 1991 total of 12.6%. That 44.2% increase really sounds big, doesn't it. Even looks like Statistics Canada is glorifying those numbers.

They are probably Christian in name only, and most are secular. Canada really isn't extremely religous.

I would say you are paying dearly for the absence of religious doctrine.

What specific type of religious doctrine. I'd be supportive of a religious studies type of class, but not a school which teaches from only one book.

[Rue]

I beg your pardon.

I have no problem with funding faith-based schools, so long as the religion stays in those schools.

People who send their kids to public schools in Canada do so because of the absence of religious doctrine and discrimination.

Public and "pagan" and happy thanks.

Given the history in Canada of how aboriginal children were forefully kidnapped and placed in Christian schools that molested them I would think it should serve as a sober reminder to all of us what happens when state funded religious institutions have their way with people.

It is one makor reason why I do not trust religion mixed into public schools in anything other then a neutral academic course to study.

I personally believe aboriginal culture should be taught as a core curriculum subject just as English and French history and languages are.

That said, I believe public schools should be neutral. But this does not mean after school, the government can't provide funding for specific heritage and religious classes where numbers warrant and its optional.

It is absolute b.s. to suggest Catholic schools should be funded publically but no other religion. That is discrimination of the worst kind. You do it for all or none.

I believe children should go to school with people of all faiths and cultures and learn to respect difference and not have one person's culture or religion shoved down their throat.

In terms of aboriginal, British and French history, these are the founding cultures of our country so I believe we all have to learn about them.

In regards to religions, they all should be taught but in a manner that treats them all with equal time and respect.

Immigrant cultural heritage belongs after school within the particular culturalc ommunity.

Dalton McGuinty is a large overgrown hippocritical wart.

I think John Tory was trying to be honourable must went about it the wrong way. I really do not think he set out to court Jewish or Evangelical votes at all. I think his muddled entry into the school issue comes from his guilty feelings of playing a central role in how

Bill Davis pooled the wool over everyone and snuck in privileged status for Catholic funding.

I also have nothing against Catholics wanting religious schools at all. All I am saying is if you fund them, you have to fund other religions. If you want to make that formula based on population, then fine. That is my way of telling Catholics they are not the problem in this debate and never were.

I just don't like religion in public institutions. It leads to nothing but trouble unless you manifest it in an inclusive non discriminatory way.

I myself would never send my child to a Jewish public school. I believe sending my child to learn Hebrew or Jewish culture is my responsibility in my own community, its not a public thing the public should pay for.

Then again I hate all organized religions for the same reasons. They are usually run by smelly old men with beards whod on't make good role models and tend to molest people or hide in caves.

Edited October 6, 2007 by Rue

[Leafless]

They are probably Christian in name only, and most are secular.

I agree Christians don't go walking down the street knotted in prayer beads, but what Canadians report what they are, Christian, that is what they are, Christian.

If they were secular, majority Christian Canadians would classify themselves as secular, but probably don't for good reason as they don't want to be assoiciated with paganary and nothingness.

Canada really isn't extremely religous.

Are you saying those who follow Islam are not extremely religious?

Think again.

[trex]

I believe children should go to school with people of all faiths and cultures and learn to respect difference and not have one person's culture or religion shoved down their throat.

In terms of aboriginal, British and French history, these are the founding cultures of our country so I believe we all have to learn about them.

In regards to religions, they all should be taught but in a manner that treats them all with equal time and respect.

Immigrant cultural heritage belongs after school within the particular culturalc ommunity.

makes sense

[Leafless]

Immigrant cultural heritage belongs after school within the particular culturalc ommunity.

No, you are wrong.

With Canada’s changing demographic face, a challenge was sooner or later inevitable. In 1996, a case before the Supreme Court argued that Catholic-only school funding contravened the 1982 Charter of Rights, which guarantees equal treatment for all, regardless of religion.

The court ruled against the application. It noted that the founders of the nation had used Section 93 of the 1867 Constitution act to make Confederation possible between two distinct groups, Protestants and Catholics.

Their specific rights were further underlined in Section 29 of the Charter, which states “nothing in this Charter abrogates…from any rights or privileges guaranteed by or under the Constitution of Canada in respect of denominational, separate or dissentient schools.”

That section, the court said, ensured “the complete and continuous enjoyment, by the religious minorities, of such rights as were originally granted.”

In 1999, the United Nations Human Rights Commission decreed that Ontario’s separate school system is discriminatory and called for the issue to be addressed within 90 days. Conservative Premier Mike Harris refused.

And now the issue is back once again.

And John Tory did the right thing by originally proposing to fund faith based schools for the religious minorities.

http://www.tomorrowstrust.ca/?p=897

[Posit]

John Tory did the WRONG thing, obviously. He is losing an election over his opinion of faith based schools which the majority of the electorate disagree with. John Tory is a has-been even before he ever was.

[madmax]

Wrong Much?

He says he will vote for faith based schools is a free vote.

John Tory has run such a disaster of a campaign he will be lucky to vote on anything because he probably won't even win his own seat. He has been wrong, finally admitted he was wrong. Bowed to the polls, showed no conviction of anything and worst of all, he has let the Liberals off the hook for being virtually useless in government and not fullfilling their promises.

He could have hammered them but he wanted to make the issues about himself and faith based schools. A complete non starter.

Perhaps now, in the last couple days, he can start talking about McGuinty.

Howard Hampton told the media to WAKE UP, McGuinty's getting a free ride because of Torys poor campaign.

It has definitely been a disaster and someone has to hold McGuinty Accountable.

Edited October 7, 2007 by madmax

[Leafless]

John Tory did the WRONG thing, obviously. He is losing an election over his opinion of faith based schools which the majority of the electorate disagree with. John Tory is a has-been even before he ever was.

Its not an opinion its Charter rights.

And besides Mc.Guinty continues WRONGLY to refer to Ontario schools as PUBLIC SCHOOLS and Ontarians believe that.

Ontarians forget they are funding FAITH BASED SCHOOLS ALREADY.

Edited October 7, 2007 by Leafless

[kengs333]

The PC are going to lose bigtime. They thought that Tory would prove to be a great leader, but his campaigns has been nothing short of unimpressive. He just doesn't have what it takes.

[Higgly]

it should be taught every year, not just once in high school.

and civics is all about politics, not world religions, i believe. or did you take a different class than me

That's my point. I'd be all in favour for replacing classes on religion with classics on civics. Religion is cast in stone. Nobody can do anything with these people. Civics is all about the power that we all have to change our world.

Give me civics, or give me death!

[Moxie]

Religion belongs in the home, school is for education and expanding one's mind. I agree with Higgly "Give me civics" or give me shop, or plumbing, or home ed (gag).

[Higgly]

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy

Rightwing-ism is the philosophy of takers, the creed of the greedy, and the gospel of cronies. Right-wingism is about entitlement. Right-wingism is about not being able to distinguish the difference between luck and brains.

Edited October 7, 2007 by Higgly

[daniel]

The failures of capitalism gave rise to the need for socialism.

Edited October 7, 2007 by daniel

[scribblet]

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy

Rightwing-ism is the philosophy of takers, the creed of the greedy, and the gospel of cronies. Right-wingism is about entitlement. Right-wingism is about not being able to distinguish the difference between luck and brains.

Left wingism and socialism is nothing more than attempting to make all people equally poor. It is about social engineering and and inherent in its ideology is a tyranny that will use force if necessary to take from those who produce - to redistribute to those who don't. Under socialism the State is the all powerful.