Pardon her English Ottawa

[Leafless]

This case is outright linguistic discrimination against majority English speaking residents in Ottawa, Ont. a city that harbours a bilingual policy.

She is 25, a single mother with two children, aged four and 18 months. She is on social assistance, living on the 15th floor of an Ottawa Community Housing highrise with the occasional cockroach.

It is hot, crowded and an incubator for social ills. For the sake of her children, she wants out.

About a year ago, she signed up with the Social Housing Registry of Ottawa, a centralized waiting list for several types of subsidized housing, including publicly aided, but privately run, co-ops.

A few days ago, there was a message on her answering machine, entirely in French.

She called the number, which connected her with Coopérative d'habitation Côté Est Inc., a co-op of 84 units on St. Joseph Boulevard in Orleans. Sorry, Orléans.

Again, the office insisted on speaking to her in French. She had a friend intervene. Indeed, she discovered, Côté Est was a francophone community. She could pursue tenancy, but she would have to do so in French.

What good is an official Ottawa bilingual policy:

"This co-op has the right to operate in French. She has the right to live there, so ostensibly, there's no discrimination," said Russell Mawby, director of housing for the city of Ottawa, which has no direct control over co-op regulations.

This is outright discrimination by users of the minority French language, against a woman using the majority English language in Ottawa, a city that also has an official bilingual policy, but apparently is useless.

This proves the concept of bilingualism DOES NOT WORK and this also proves that once the minority French have their foot in the door in the door via a bilingual policy, the story changes and it becomes nothing more than a French power grab.

Read the full story:

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/c...5f036c2&p=1

[Kapitän Rotbart]

The article itself explains this. Coops are publicly funded yet privately run. Like any private organization in Canada, regardless of locale, the organization can choose to operate in English or French.

I'll admit I was surprised that these people were not linguistically capable of helping this woman in English, yet it was her choice to live in that Coop... Gee, well who wouldn't move into a place with a name like "Côté Est Inc." administered in Orléans hoping that service will be available in English. I suppose these Coops' working language should be identified, however IMHO, it was pretty obvious that a Coop run in Orléans with a name like "Côté Est Inc." would do everything in French.

This is outright discrimination by users of the minority French language, against a woman using the majority English language in Ottawa, a city that also has an official bilingual policy, but apparently is useless.

No discrimination was made, actually. The Coop DOES have the right to do everything in either language, and that woman DOES have the right to live in that Coop, regardless of the language she uses.

[Argus]

The article itself explains this. Coops are publicly funded yet privately run. Like any private organization in Canada, regardless of locale, the organization can choose to operate in English or French.

I'll admit I was surprised that these people were not linguistically capable of helping this woman in English, yet it was her choice to live in that Coop... Gee, well who wouldn't move into a place with a name like "Côté Est Inc." administered in Orléans hoping that service will be available in English. I suppose these Coops' working language should be identified, however IMHO, it was pretty obvious that a Coop run in Orléans with a name like "Côté Est Inc." would do everything in French.

No discrimination

Many places in Ottawa have French names, but are either English or bilingual. I mean, our main shopping centres are St. Laurent and Rideau. I used to work at an office tower called Le Esplanade Laurier - good shopping in the concourse. My friend works at Place de Ville. French or English names mean virtually nothing in this city.

However, I wonder what success a group would have if they went to the city and said they want to put together a housing co-op for English people. Jaws would gape at city hall, I can tell you.

Unfortunately, what's happened in Ottawa is that the federal government's artificial demand for bilingualism in so many jobs has drawn a lot of Quebecers to Ottawa over the years, and Orleans and other eastern suburbs are where most have gathered. They still retain their Francophone chauvinism and sense of superiority over Anglos, and they want their communities to be as French as possible. I'm not saying they want to have services available to them in French. I'm saying they want everything to be French and only French.

Edited September 29, 2007 by Argus

[Leafless]

The article itself explains this. Coops are publicly funded yet privately run. Like any private organization in Canada, regardless of locale, the organization can choose to operate in English or French.

OR ANY OTHER LANGUGE, it does NOT have to be either English or French.

This is strange indeed that out of 60 different co-ops in Eastern Ontario this is the only one that does not respond in the majority language of Canada, English.

This proves contempt for the English language and is something that must be corrected as public funds are being used provided by a large majority English speaking residents.

Something else that is not adequately explained is that this women initially and obviously applied in English and why was there no problem with language at that point.

Nick Sidor is the director of corporate communications for the Co-operative Housing Association of Eastern Ontario, a part of the province that has roughly 60 different co-ops.

He is not aware of any complaints from prospective members based on exclusion due to language or age. The woman is not being excluded from Côté Est, he reiterated. She is merely being dealt with in the language chosen by duly elected members. "It depends on how you look through the lens."

And the lens definitely is CORRUPT.

Edited September 22, 2007 by Leafless

[Kapitän Rotbart]

@Argus:

However, I wonder what success a group would have if they went to the city and said they want to put together a housing co-op for English people. Jaws would gape at city hall, I can tell you.

They don't have to announce it to the city, they simply have to register. I don't recall announcing the Coop's working language being required.

Unfortunately, what's happened in Ottawa is that the federal government's artificial demand for bilingualism in so many jobs has drawn a lot of Quebecers to Ottawa over the years, and Orleans and other eastern suburbs are where most have gathered. They still retain their Francophone chauvinism and sense of superiority over Anglos, and they want their communities to be as French as possible. I'm not saying they want to have services available to them in French. I'm saying they want everything to be French and only French.

If we are to refer to Ottawa's history, it has historically been more French-speaking prior to the 70s if I recall correctly. Downtown was very French-speaking (much more than now), but many Franco-Ottawans have moved to the Eastern suburbs or Gatineau (due to cheaper housing). Chauvinism? There has been a war on languages in Canada since day one... the colonization was so poorly carried out (no thanks to the English) that ever since, there has been spite and hostility on both sides.

From what I gather, Franco-Ontarians want their sustainable French-speaking community at home without having to go to Québec. It makes sense, if someone were to move to say, a Vietnamese Coop, unless they speak Viet, they would feel excluded from the community who wants to be living in their language in the comfort of their own home, and wouldn't be able to communicate with the recent immigrants who get cheap labor in the Coop because they wouldn't have learned either of the domestic languages yet. Though Franco-Ontarians may be able to speak English for the most part, they should not be expected to speak any language but their own in the comfort of their own home/coop (meaning they should be able to assume everyone living in their coop speaks their language).

@Leafless:

OR ANY OTHER LANGUGE, it does NOT have to be either English or French.

Correct, and any legal resident can choose to live in any given Coop in Ottawa or not. Sounds like freedom to me.

This is strange indeed that out of 60 different co-ops in Eastern Ontario this is the only one that does not respond in the majority language of Canada, English.

Oh, 1 out of 60 is less than 2%, yet Franco-Ontarians represent a much higher proportion of Eastern Ontariario's population than of the whole province, which is 4%.

This proves contempt for the English language and is something that must be corrected as public funds are being used provided by a large majority English speaking residents.

According to what I just stated, proportionally, French-speaking Coops are not funded enough.

Something else that is not adequately explained is that this women initially and obviously applied in English and why was there no problem with language at that point.

Not adequately explained indeed. Did she file the application directly or did she apply through the city? Maybe she can understand terms in French on an application form such as "nom", "age", "adresse", "méthode de paiement", etc. without too much difficulty. (Most people raised in Canada are actually taught their second domestic language in school, meaning claiming to have no understanding of their second domestic language is denial for the most part.) Writing one's address and credit card number does not mean filling out an application in a given language IMHO (unless a cover letter is also required).

And the lens definitely is CORRUPT.

Well, as suggested by the article, that's relative. Definitely corrupt according to Leafless. Definitely fine according to others. Thank the Lord for democracy

[Leafless]

Oh, 1 out of 60 is less than 2%, yet Franco-Ontarians represent a much higher proportion of Eastern Ontariario's population than of the whole province, which is 4%.

The answer is complicated, but the bottom line is this: co-ops, though they rely on public funds, are private corporations that can choose their language of operation, be it English, French or Swahili.

This has got nothing to do with Franco-Ontarians representing anything.

Fact is they are the only group out of all other different language groups not to use the majority language of the land.

Don't you find that contempt of the English language, for a group to use a minority language not everyone is familiar with?

Well, as suggested by the article, that's relative. Definitely corrupt according to Leafless. Definitely fine according to others. Thank the Lord for democracy

I am glad you think you are the supreme authority because I could not care what you say, as it is obvious you don't know the meaning of democracy, but it is also obvious you promote arrogance and hatred of the majority English language.

[Kapitän Rotbart]

This has got nothing to do with Franco-Ontarians representing anything.

Fact is they are the only group out of all other different language groups not to use the majority language of the land.

Don't you find that contempt of the English language, for a group to use a minority language not everyone is familiar with?

Franco-Ontarians choose to use a fully supported official language.

Francophones and people who speak more French than English living in Ottawa will likely prefer to do everything in French. Other linguistic minorities don't have much of a choice because their languages are not officially supported. Also, they were probably not involved in the colonization of Canada, so it makes sense that they would have to use at least one of the official languages.

I am glad you think you are the supreme authority because I could not care what you say, as it is obvious you don't know the meaning of democracy, but it is also obvious you promote arrogance and hatred of the majority English language.

I'm quite indifferent about the fact that you think I think I am the supreme authority. This is quite vague, so it doesn't really mean anything to me.

I am accused of not knowing the meaning of democracy by someone who has announced to me in a past post that he doesn't vote. I don't appreciate the personal attacks. You have been reported.

[Leafless]

Franco-Ontarians choose to use a fully supported official language.

This as nothing to do with co-ops. Russians for example who wish to use Russian have the same rights as Francophones to do so, but don't as any member of the public can apply with the large majority being English speaking.

It seems you still do not understand what the Francophones are doing is legal (relating to a co-op) but it seems they are not aware that the large majority of Ontario residents and do not understand French.

This is showing a high level of contempt for the majority language English since the majority of individuals that apply are English speaking or other minority languages mostly all familiar with the English language and not the French language.

It should be noted Ontario is not Quebec and Francophones in this situation, do not recognize that fact.

The answer is complicated, but the bottom line is this: co-ops, though they rely on public funds, are private corporations that can choose their language of operation, be it English, French or Swahili.

Francophones and people who speak more French than English living in Ottawa will likely prefer to do everything in French.

Do you have anything to back up your totally non-sensical statements?

Other linguistic minorities don't have much of a choice because their languages are not officially supported.

French is not supported in Ontario outside of some constitutional rights that could be discontinued, if the province wanted to take this option.

Ontario IS NOT OFFICIALLY BILINGUAL.

Also, they were probably not involved in the colonization of Canada, so it makes sense that they would have to use at least one of the official languages.

What does the colonization of Canada have to do with using ANY language of your choice.

Our freedoms in Canada allow this.

I am accused of not knowing the meaning of democracy by someone who has announced to me in a past post that he doesn't vote. I don't appreciate the personal attacks. You have been reported.

Whether I choose to vote or not, is my business and is a perfectly legal right.

Maybe you can then tell us, according to you, what are citizen's of Canada 'democratic rights'?

[Kapitän Rotbart]

...It seems you still do not understand what the Francophones are doing is legal (relating to a co-op) but it seems they are not aware that the large majority of Ontario residents and do not understand French. ...

Oh I understand quite clearly that this is legal. History plays a strong role in this... Russian-Canadians, for example, have never fought for their language to be supported at all in the 613, whereas Franco-Ontarians have. Other linguistic minorities do not have the same interests in supporting their language to such an extent of exclusivity (not like it's really all that exclusive anyway, everyone raised in Canada has at least some comprehension of the French language).

Do you have anything to back up your totally nonsensical statements?

Notice I used the word "likely", meaning I was suggesting a tendency to make a point. A statement suggesting a tendency using such a logic such as "most people will live their life in their most comfortable domestic language" seems like common sense to me.

Ontario IS NOT OFFICIALLY BILINGUAL.

It doesn't have to be. There are language quotas and a sustainable community. To my knowledge, no political party in Ontario would have the intentions of abolishing services in French, so this is unlikely to change soon.

Maybe you can then tell us, according to you, what are citizen's of Canada 'democratic rights'?

Well, what does it matter how I would describe Canadian citizens' democratic rights? My description wouldn't change what they really are. Here's a quote from the Human and Constitutional Rights website:

Canadian Democratic Rights

3. Every citizen of Canada has the right to vote in an election of members of the House of Commons or of a legislative assembly and to be qualified for membership therein.

4. -

1. No House of Commons and no legislative assembly shall continue for longer than five years from the date fixed for the return of the writs at a general election of its members.

2. In time of real or apprehended war, invasion or insurrection, a House of Commons may be continued by Parliament and a legislative assembly may be continued by the legislature beyond five years if such continuation is not opposed by the votes of more than one-third of the members of the House of Commons or the legislative assembly, as the case may be.

5. There shall be a sitting of Parliament and of each legislature at least once every twelve months

Appears to me that we have the right to vote and to be a member of a political party. Those are our democratic rights. If you do not vote, you do not contribute to Canadian democracy any more than any person who does not have Canadian citizenship. Granted, it is up to you whether you vote or not, however your vote is your voice in Canadian democracy. It's up to you whether your voice is counted.

[Leafless]

Oh I understand quite clearly that this is legal. History plays a strong role in this... Russian-Canadians, for example, have never fought for their language to be supported at all in the 613, whereas Franco-Ontarians have.

History has nothing to do with this. Russians do have the same rights as Francophones in establishing their language in the operation of co-op's, but don't, as they fully understand what linguistic arrogance is.

Francophones fought for their language to be supported in 613 is B.S. as the English in Ontario were not ALLOWED TO FIGHT BACK. One of these days we will get an English premier with balls to listen to the wishes of the majority English in Ontario to fight against the backwood linguistic policies in Quebec and minority French arrogance in Ontario.

Notice I used the word "likely", meaning I was suggesting a tendency to make a point. A statement suggesting a tendency using such a logic such as "most people will live their life in their most comfortable domestic language" seems like common sense to me.

It seems totally illogical to me as the large majority in Ontario is English and the most comfortable domestic language is English.

It doesn't have to be. There are language quotas and a sustainable community.

Means nothing as there is no official status to it.

If you want to play French squatters rights ---have fun segregating yourselves like some Indian tribe. Immigrants are pulling the same stunt.

To my knowledge, no political party in Ontario would have the intentions of abolishing services in French

Why not? Quebec did by establishing French as the working language for the entire province of Quebec.

Appears to me that we have the right to vote and to be a member of a political party. Those are our democratic rights. If you do not vote, you do not contribute to Canadian democracy any more than any person who does not have Canadian citizenship. Granted, it is up to you whether you vote or not, however your vote is your voice in Canadian democracy. It's up to you whether your voice is counted.

When you vote federally, you are only voting for your MPP who generally adheres to the party line on most or all important issues.

My vote, your vote and everyone else's vote really means ZILCH.

You fail to acknowledge we are ruled by a totalitarian government who is free to do whatever it feels like doing.

You don't have any voice in Canadian democracy.

[Borg]

This case is outright linguistic discrimination against majority English speaking residents in Ottawa, Ont. a city that harbours a bilingual policy.

What good is an official Ottawa bilingual policy:

This is outright discrimination by users of the minority French language, against a woman using the majority English language in Ottawa, a city that also has an official bilingual policy, but apparently is useless.

This proves the concept of bilingualism DOES NOT WORK and this also proves that once the minority French have their foot in the door in the door via a bilingual policy, the story changes and it becomes nothing more than a French power grab.

Read the full story:

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/c...5f036c2&p=1

Look, it is a one way street in Canada so she better get used to it.

Try going to a certain clinic in Cornwall, Ontario. If you do not speak french they will not allow you to book an appointment.

Try telling a frenchie that s/he MUST speak english to be served in Ottawa and the lefties scream while pollies bluster.

Time for her to find a new home,

Borg

[Kapitän Rotbart]

@Leafless:

Francophones fought for their language to be supported in 613 is B.S. as the English in Ontario were not ALLOWED TO FIGHT BACK. One of these days we will get an English premier with balls to listen to the wishes of the majority English in Ontario to fight against the backwood linguistic policies in Quebec and minority French arrogance in Ontario.

B.S. is Brittney Spears, however the efforts invested over time for the support of the French language in the 613 are not. Seems like I must remind you what a fight is. WordWeb tells me a fight is "The act of fighting; any contest or struggle". Does someone struggling need an opponent just to struggle? Only low-level people need an "opponent", in other words someone to blame, for their every struggle.

The English are in England for the most part. The Anglo Ontarians would have little or no interest in defending their language, because it's the majority language and requires little or no effort to support, especially when there's little competition (consisting of one linguistic minority who convinces local politicians to grant them public funding for French-language schools). The Anglophones could have fought against this, but seems like most Canadians are more pacifist than you are and believe there is enough room in this country for two languages.

It seems totally illogical to me as the large majority in Ontario is English and the most comfortable domestic language is English.

Looks like you're going off on tangents. My point was that a majority of Francophones and residents of Canada more comfortable in French than English would be more inclined to supporting the French language than not supporting it, and because they're such a sizable minority in the 613, it seems to make sense that the French language would be fully supported to the point where one could carry out pretty much all day to day activities in their preferred domestic language. As seen in various parts of the world, language is not limited by federal boarders (there are French-Canadian communities in Maine and Vermont who still speak French, Belgium is a perfect example of how a language spoken by its community does not just "end" at the boarder). Québec and Ontario do not even have a federal boarder yet, so there's no need to limit the 613 to English.

If you want to play French squatters rights ---have fun segregating yourselves like some Indian tribe. Immigrants are pulling the same stunt.

In most of the RoC (for instance the prairies), that's the case. You'll hardly ever see an urban Francophone from the prairies. The 613 is not the prairies. If you like the idea of segregated Francophones, be my guest and move to Saskatchewan.

Why not? Quebec did by establishing French as the working language for the entire province of Quebec.

Yeah, fully supported by a sustainable community of extremists. There are not enough Ontarians who share your views to motivate any Ontarian politician to carry this out.

When you vote federally, you are only voting for your MPP who generally adheres to the party line on most or all important issues.

My vote, your vote and everyone else's vote really means ZILCH.

You fail to acknowledge we are ruled by a totalitarian government who is free to do whatever it feels like doing.

You don't have any voice in Canadian democracy.

I acknowledge we are ruled by a democratically elected government who will be stopped by the Queen if they ever turn on us. A totalitarian government who is free to do whatever it feels like doing would just maybe be more effective... at least things would get done.

[Leafless]

B.S. is Brittney Spears, however the efforts invested over time for the support of the French language in the 613 are not. Seems like I must remind you what a fight is. WordWeb tells me a fight is "The act of fighting; any contest or struggle". Does someone struggling need an opponent just to struggle? Only low-level people need an "opponent", in other words someone to blame, for their every struggle.

It was you who used 'fight' initially.

You better find find better words to describe whatever you are trying to say as my Concise Oxford Dictionary tells me the primary definition of the word 'fight' is-1. contend or struggle in war,,battle, single combat, etc. And for the word 'struggle'-1. make forceful or violent efforts to get free of restraint or constriction.

BTW- French separatist did use violence and this laid the groundwork to backup Quebec demands.

The English are in England for the most part. The Anglo Ontarians would have little or no interest in defending their language, because it's the majority language and requires little or no effort to support

Unfortunately the English CAN'T say the same about the French 'for the most part are in France' since we know Quebec and Francophones have gone to extreme lengths to continue to emulate the language of France in an effort not to linguistically integrate, even thigh they lost to the British and gain greatly through confederation.

I don't know why these traitorous characteristics are tolerated by Canadian society.

Looks like you're going off on tangents. My point was that a majority of Francophones and residents of Canada more comfortable in French than English would be more inclined to supporting the French language than not supporting it, and because they're such a sizable minority in the 613, it seems to make sense that the French language would be fully supported to the point where one could carry out pretty much all day to day activities in their preferred domestic language.

If you prefer fracturing Canadian society this way like natives and immigrants, go for it, as it will probably result in the downfall of Canada as these segregated groups become politically powerful, will for certain, totally politically cripple our already fragile dysfunctional political system.

There are not enough Ontarians who share your views to motivate any Ontarian politician to carry this out.

Never say never my friend.

A totalitarian government who is free to do whatever it feels like doing would just maybe be more effective... at least things would get done.

But NOT in a DEMOCRATIC fashion and to who's preferences. I am sorry to say that in Canada we not only have a very undemocratic government but also a Mafia style government that forcefully drives very divisive cultural issue's in the direction of their preference or liking. This is being done by one major federal party with virtually no objections raised by parliament or loud outcry by the Canadian public. This is absolutely unbelievable.

We have a totalitarian and a destructive government now that totally leaves out Canadian citizens and their input to what Canadians want via a referendum.

[Kapitän Rotbart]

It was you who used 'fight' initially.

You better find find better words to describe whatever you are trying to say as my Concise Oxford Dictionary tells me the primary definition of the word 'fight' is-1. contend or struggle in war,,battle, single combat, etc. And for the word 'struggle'-1. make forceful or violent efforts to get free of restraint or constriction.

BTW- French separatist did use violence and this laid the groundwork to backup Quebec demands.

If you accuse me of fighting, you'll have to accuse me for fighting for and against both sides.

I believe my choice of words is fine. I'll agree that "to fight" can be summarized by "to struggle" (but not limited to war). The definition I have for struggle (noun): "An energetic attempt to achieve something; An open clash between two opposing groups (or individuals); Strenuous effort" (verb): "Make a strenuous or labored effort; To exert strenuous effort against opposition; Climb awkwardly, as if by scrambling; Be engaged in a fight; carry on a fight". Even the definition you have of to struggle is not limited to violence.

Unfortunately the English CAN'T say the same about the French 'for the most part are in France' since we know Quebec and Francophones have gone to extreme lengths to continue to emulate the language of France in an effort not to linguistically integrate, even thigh they lost to the British and gain greatly through confederation.

I don't know why these traitorous characteristics are tolerated by Canadian society.

Well, that depends on whether you go by "you are what you speak" unilaterally. If you want to refer to Anglophones as "the English" and Francophones as "the French", then you better give me two, three or four Western European citizenships. So far, I am neither English nor French, just Canadian.

French is not limited to France... I've already stated that languages are not limited to federal boarders. The Francophones in Canada can speak French just as authentically as the French, the Luxembourgers, the Senegalese and the Haitians. No emulation is required.

If you prefer fracturing Canadian society this way like natives and immigrants, go for it, as it will probably result in the downfall of Canada as these segregated groups become politically powerful, will for certain, totally politically cripple our already fragile dysfunctional political system.

Not much of a preference issue. Canada's evolution is independent of your preferences or mine. A more segregated country will still have to conform to competition.

Never say never my friend.

Nice! We're friends now! I guess I'd add you as a friend if this were a social networking website.

I haven't used the word never. Being realistic, though, it will become less and less probable. Canadians are becoming more tolerant towards each other, despite the war on languages. Monolinguals will have fewer job opportunities within the government, and fewer will live tragedies such as losing one's job due to language requirements (because they wouldn't be hired for such a position in the first place), the worst events that occurred during the quiet revolution will soon be forgotten, and Québec's nationalism might actually cool off as they are granted more power from the federal government (possibly sovereignty-association). With globalization, the Interweb brings people together, prejudices are lessened and people have easier access to learning and continued education (facilitating acquiring a 2nd language), meaning we are moving towards a more educated and more tolerant society, meaning it will be less and less likely that enough people in Ontario advocate that French language quotas in Ontariario be abolished IMHO.

But NOT in a DEMOCRATIC fashion and to who's preferences. I am sorry to say that in Canada we not only have a very undemocratic government but also a Mafia style government that forcefully drives very divisive cultural issue's in the direction of their preference or liking. This is being done by one major federal party with virtually no objections raised by parliament or loud outcry by the Canadian public. This is absolutely unbelievable.

We have a totalitarian and a destructive government now that totally leaves out Canadian citizens and their input to what Canadians want via a referendum.

The absence of a loud outcry is likely the result of partial satisfaction.

[Leafless]

Be engaged in a fight; carry on a fight". Even the definition you have of to struggle is not limited to violence.

I would have used 'campaign' or 'crusade'.

Well, that depends on whether you go by "you are what you speak" unilaterally. If you want to refer to Anglophones as "the English" and Francophones as "the French", then you better give me two, three or four Western European citizenships. So far, I am neither English nor French, just Canadian.

I remember in a previous post you already identified yourself as 'English speaking'.

I never made an issue over 'Anglophones' a word that I despise, as its definition from one of my dictionaries defines it as: "1.-One who speaks English where other languages are usually spoken.

This justifies use of the word Anglophone ONLY in the province of Quebec and justifies the use of Francophone all over the rest of English majority Canada and the entire U.S. since English is the only majority English language.

Canada's evolution is independent of your preferences or mine. A more segregated country will still have to conform to competition.

It is definitely not a preference issue and like I said a fractured country will not survive our already fragile broken political system.

meaning we are moving towards a more educated and more tolerant society, meaning it will be less and less likely that enough people in Ontario advocate that French language quotas in Ontariario be abolished IMHO.

The absence of a loud outcry is likely the result of partial satisfaction.

That is not true.

My sister lives in Toronto and she says you don't hear nothing about French anything and she is employed in a highly paid business organization. Try seriously implementing bilingualism in the largest English speaking majority city in Ontario and see what happens.

We know for a fact, don't we, that Francophones basically wanted Ottawa where the government power is and capitalized on it, utilizing the help of French federal politicians, leaving the promoting of bilingualism to the feds.

Bilingualism is a failure in Canada and the money and discriminatory tactics used to try to implement it, is shameful and disgraceful.

[Kapitän Rotbart]

I remember in a previous post you already identified yourself as 'English speaking'.

Correct. The issue here is the nonsense in "you are what you speak". If you insist on going by "you are what you speak", then I insist you supply me with a citizenship for every language I speak (other than Canadian, because Canadian is not a language, yet it's presently my only citizenship).

I never made an issue over 'Anglophones' a word that I despise, as its definition from one of my dictionaries defines it as: "1.-One who speaks English where other languages are usually spoken.

I think you should get a different dictionary. I looked up the definition of 'Anglophone' at www.askoxford.com, the online Oxford English language dictionary. The result was:

adjective English-speaking.

I looked up 'Anglophone' in WordWeb and it gave me "Someone who speaks English, esp. as their first language". If you look at Wikipedia, they also do not comply with your nonsense definition. Wikipedia's definition of an Anglophone "is someone who speaks the English language natively or by adoption. As an adjective, it means English-speaking, whether referring to individuals, groups or places. As such, it is related to the Anglosphere, the group of countries that mainly speak English." Sounds like all definitions I've found are irrelevant to English-speakers living in regions where English would be a minority language. I honestly recommend you get another dictionary, or at least verify at least two dictionaries before making such silly quotes. I have trouble believing your dictionary actually states "where other languages are usually spoken". I would appreciate a URL to a website where this can be found, otherwise I refuse to acknowledge that bizarre (and most likely false) definition.

It is definitely not a preference issue and like I said a fractured country will not survive our already fragile broken political system.

Yeah, I am fully aware that it's not a preference issue. The rest of your statement is going off tangents. Stick to the point.

That is not true.

To you, my humble opinion is clearly false, and I'm sure you have great evidence to back this.

My sister lives in Toronto and she says you don't hear nothing about French anything and she is employed in a highly paid business organization. Try seriously implementing bilingualism in the largest English speaking majority city in Ontario and see what happens.

You think the example of one person is enough to put down a hypothesis?! Ontariarian French language quotas have little or nothing to do regarding the private sector, and that wasn't the point at all! My point is, people are becoming more tolerant to the French language being supported in provincial offices, in other words provincial services provided in both languages provincially where there be a sustainable community. The rest of your post was irrelevant in attempting to knock down my hypothesis, but I will comment anyway.

We know for a fact, don't we, that Francophones basically wanted Ottawa where the government power is and capitalized on it, utilizing the help of French federal politicians, leaving the promoting of bilingualism to the feds.

Bilingualism is a failure in Canada and the money and discriminatory tactics used to try to implement it, is shameful and disgraceful.

Oh, I love how you start your statement "We know for a fact"... you can state this, but stating this doesn't make it a fact. The federal gov't is responsible for the entire country, a country of two languages. This topic (which you started) has little to do with the federal gov't, but if you want to state that the Francophones went after the feds as opposed to the provincial parliaments, this "fact" has little or no value as an argument, even if it is a fact.

Then you end your post with how bilingualism in Canada is unfavorable. In reality, there is a guaranteed proportion of wasted monetary resources in government. If this money isn't wasted on bilingualism, it will be wasted on other things. In the American USA, a country with no official language (and little or no federal funds are spent on translations or ensuring services in a minority language), money is constantly wasted on various government programs. Same thing goes on in Canada, and bilingualism is one of those things our government throws money at, yet removing that would not stop the gov't from tossing cash.

Back to my point. IMHO, Canadians are becoming more tolerant and educated, and therefore are becoming less likely to oppose to French language support/quotas in Ontario's provincial government, and therefore the odds of enough people who share your views decide to overthrow the provincial government over the language issue, if anything, are becoming less and less likely. As it is, no revolt is going to happen any time soon based on this issue, and people working in English in Toronto really don't care how much of their tax money goes into hiring bilingual people to provide them provincial services in their preferred domestic language, all to say if I were you, I wouldn't keep my hopes up. If you want to suggest otherwise and defend the likelihood of a revolt against the provincial government on the issue of language, you'll need at least one relevant and compelling argument. Citing the experience of your sister in Toronto's private sector just isn't compelling.

[Leafless]

Correct. The issue here is the nonsense in "you are what you speak". If you insist on going by "you are what you speak", then I insist you supply me with a citizenship for every language I speak (other than Canadian, because Canadian is not a language, yet it's presently my only citizenship).

I think you should get a different dictionary. I looked up the definition of 'Anglophone' at www.askoxford.com, the online Oxford English language dictionary. The result was:

I looked up 'Anglophone' in WordWeb and it gave me "Someone who speaks English, esp. as their first language". If you look at Wikipedia, they also do not comply with your nonsense definition. Wikipedia's definition of an Anglophone "is someone who speaks the English language natively or by adoption. As an adjective, it means English-speaking, whether referring to individuals, groups or places. As such, it is related to the Anglosphere, the group of countries that mainly speak English." Sounds like all definitions I've found are irrelevant to English-speakers living in regions where English would be a minority language. I honestly recommend you get another dictionary, or at least verify at least two dictionaries before making such silly quotes. I have trouble believing your dictionary actually states "where other languages are usually spoken". I would appreciate a URL to a website where this can be found, otherwise I refuse to acknowledge that bizarre (and most likely false) definition.

There is no URL.

That definiton was sourced from my hardcover copy of the 'New Lexicon Webster Dictionary of the English Language' a deluxe encyclopedia edition.

Oh, I love how you start your statement "We know for a fact"... you can state this, but stating this doesn't make it a fact. The federal gov't is responsible for the entire country, a country of two languages.

Well, we do know it for a fact.

What do you think the reason was Francophones moving into and populating the little city of Hull, Quebec, now known as Gatineau Quebec, from Montreal and other parts of Quebec for their good looks or for federal jobs across the river in Ottawa, after Trudeau's implementing the Charter of Rights and Freedoms?

Stop trying to misrepresent facts by trying to impress the false fact the federal government controls bilingualism throughout the provinces of Canada.

Back to my point. IMHO, Canadians are becoming more tolerant and educated, and therefore are becoming less likely to oppose to French language support/quotas in Ontario's provincial government, and therefore the odds of enough people who share your views decide to overthrow the provincial government over the language issue, if anything, are becoming less and less likely. As it is, no revolt is going to happen any time soon based on this issue, and people working in English in Toronto really don't care how much of their tax money goes into hiring bilingual people to provide them provincial services in their preferred domestic language, all to say if I were you, I wouldn't keep my hopes up. If you want to suggest otherwise and defend the likelihood of a revolt against the provincial government on the issue of language, you'll need at least one relevant and compelling argument. Citing the experience of your sister in Toronto's private sector just isn't compelling.

I will give you one compelling reason.

Thank God, you will never see Ontario 'officially bilingual' because of TORONTO.