Haudenosaunee Confederacy Land Rights Statement

[jennie]

Can't you just write a short post about this and post a link, rather than cutting and pasting everthing that ends up in you inbox?

They can couch their attempted extortion in as legal-sounding language as they can muster, it still doesn't make them or anything they try to do legitimate.

The land that they sold and surrendered was legally sold and surrendered. That means they no longer have rights to it.

Yes, I understand that but the only link available is to another board, and that is tacky.

I don't want to summarize and interpret this for people. I just want everyone to have the same information.

Look, it is all up to the government to decide that for us, right?

I know you are cheering for Canada to win and keep all the land and money, etc.

But it is too soon to cheer, eh?

Frustratin' waitin' on the government isn't it?

[jennie]

Moreover, you enever directly reply to posts when you know that your arguments don't hold water. I'll take your refusal to respond as an acknowledgement that I am right.

Or that I was not online perhaps?

kengs you have to stop taking things so personally. lighten up, mon!

[Visionseeker]

The land that they sold and surrendered was legally sold and surrendered. That means they no longer have rights to it.

The supposed "sales" are the centre of the entire dispute. The DOJ has failed to present unassailable bills of sale. That is why the stand-off continues and expands in its reach.

kengs333, my two-way familiarity with the file tells me that the Haudensosaunee are going to the near entirety of their claims by rule of law, not extortion. Putting lands aside, the theft of monies held in trust be the Crown were (and are) completely indefensible and will number in the hundreds of millions when restitutions are made.

[Posit]

The supposed "sales" are the centre of the entire dispute. The DOJ has failed to present unassailable bills of sale. That is why the stand-off continues and expands in its reach.

kengs333, my two-way familiarity with the file tells me that the Haudensosaunee are going to the near entirety of their claims by rule of law, not extortion. Putting lands aside, the theft of monies held in trust be the Crown were (and are) completely indefensible and will number in the hundreds of millions when restitutions are made.

Last estimate I heard from a very reliable source is that the trust has about $25 billion dollars in it, but that almost $24 billion has gone missing.

[noahbody]

Last estimate I heard from a very reliable source is that the trust has about $25 billion dollars in it, but that almost $24 billion has gone missing.

Have they check Jean Chretien's sock drawer?

[Visionseeker]

Have they check Jean Chretien's sock drawer?

Now THAT's funny.

[jennie]

An update from the Haudenosaunee Confederacy

Land permits will avoid conflicts

Posted 3 hours ago

http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/ArticleDi...y.aspx?e=714013

As one who initially helped conceive the Six Nations' land development protocol, I would like to speak to its merits and the thoughts behind the idea in the light of recent criticism from developers, mostly, about the protocol and the fees proposed.

The idea came as we saw the enormous cost, for all concerned, of reclaiming a relatively small piece of land in Caledonia. Not only the financial cost but also hours of lost time with our families, lost hours of employment income, fines, jail time and criminal records and loss of personal and friendly relations with the Caledonia folk and the animosity now ingrained.

So why not devise a way to circumvent future conflict by creating a permit process whereby the Six Nations Confederacy would have an opportunity to comment on development of land whose true ownership has yet to be resolved in a fair and equitable resolution process?

This permit process would serve many useful purposes. Developers would be made fully aware of the nature of the history of the land in question and whether Six Nations, not being completely against development, has any concerns regarding archeological, environmental or culturally significant concerns. The permit fee, just as a fee to any municipality, would be an administrative fee to conduct the required research of the concerns mentioned above. Now Six Nations can act in a proactive manner rather than reacting with all its potential for misunderstanding and conflict.

Developers must understand there is a hugely unresolved land ownership question across Ontario. Municipalities must understand that by providing approvals to develop on such lands they are breaking Canadian law, as stated by the Supreme Court, by not consulting and accommodating First Nations who have interests in the area.

It is not fair or legal, in any law, to reinforce dispossession of such lands by developing on them before just resolution and closure. This will likely require international arbitration or mediation, of course, given that Canada is in a position of conflict of interest in arbitrarily framing the structure for land claims processes and the unrealistic caps on financial awards associated.

...

So let's dispense with the ridiculous accusations of a money grab and mafia-like behaviour because this Haudenosaunee land development permit process is good for everyone involved. It is a proactive measure that will prevent many conflicts in the future. This new protocol is a good offer to developers and, given the determination of our people as well as the ruling of the Supreme Court regarding the legal requirement to consult and accommodate First Nations, it may be an offer they can't refuse.

Alex Jamieson Jr. Six Nations Territory

Edited September 30, 2007 by jennie

[kengs333]

Members of the Six Nations obeying the law would avoid conflicts.

[kengs333]

The supposed "sales" are the centre of the entire dispute. The DOJ has failed to present unassailable bills of sale. That is why the stand-off continues and expands in its reach.

kengs333, my two-way familiarity with the file tells me that the Haudensosaunee are going to the near entirety of their claims by rule of law, not extortion. Putting lands aside, the theft of monies held in trust be the Crown were (and are) completely indefensible and will number in the hundreds of millions when restitutions are made.

Sorry, but there's more than enough documentation to support that the sales occured.

[kengs333]

Last estimate I heard from a very reliable source is that the trust has about $25 billion dollars in it, but that almost $24 billion has gone missing.

I highly doubt you have "very reliable sources".

[Posit]

Members of the Six Nations obeying the law would avoid conflicts.

They do. They comply with the Great Law. Maybe Canada should comply with its own laws to avoid conflicts.

Edited October 1, 2007 by Posit

[Posit]

Sorry, but there's more than enough documentation to support that the sales occured.

The 80,000 pages of documentation the government presented to Six Nations last spring contain the proof of the fraudulent sales. Perhaps the Canadian negotiators should read what they provide before they give it away. The only thing Canada has proved is that the Ministry of Justice doesn't know what they are talking about.

[Posit]

I highly doubt you have "very reliable sources".

More reliable than anything you have provide thus far. That's all that matters.

[kengs333]

They do. They comply with the Great Law. Maybe Canada should comply with its own laws to avoid conflicts.

From what I've seen the Great Law doesn't seem to be taken all that serious by members of the SN. It's a nice ideal, but not much more.

[kengs333]

The 80,000 pages of documentation the government presented to Six Nations last spring contain the proof of the fraudulent sales. Perhaps the Canadian negotiators should read what they provide before they give it away. The only thing Canada has proved is that the Ministry of Justice doesn't know what they are talking about.

And yet I've never seen a specific reference to any one of these pages by any member of the Sixi Nations.

[kengs333]

More reliable than anything you have provide thus far. That's all that matters.

All of my statements are based on fact. When I've quoted sources, I've provided links. Links to credible news sources, not crap like MNN.

I'm still waiting for a source for your claim that the Gautieris claimed to have been attacked by FIFTEEN Indians. I doubt it will ever be forthcoming, but I'll ask again anyway.

[jennie]

And yet I've never seen a specific reference to any one of these pages by any member of the Sixi Nations.

That documentation is not all public yet as it is part of current negotiations.

[kengs333]

That documentation is not all public yet as it is part of current negotiations.

I'm fairly certain that all documents from that period are now publically accessable.