Should Mohawk Warriors Be Accorded Respect

[jennie]

Ahhh! Once again you speak for my emotions and feelings when you don't have a clue what they actually are, how very astute of you. Amazing talent you have there.

Now you've had your little hissy fit I will state what I actually think. I do not hate the Mohawk Warrior Society, I scorn them as wanna-be's and posers. Actually I dont hate anyone, hatred is a very non productive and futile emotion, nothing more than a waste of time and energy.

Still, don't let the facts get in your way, that wouldn't be near as much fun as inventing emotions and motives to attribute to people now would it?

Prejudices are based on fear.

Seems to me all the tough-talkers like you on here are quite afraid, in reality. There is some justification for that. If you fear living in a place where all people are considered equal, your visions of superiority kind of go out the window. If you fear equal value of each individual, you are living in the wrong country. These things could make you afraid as it becomes clearer and clearer that your views are out of step with the mainstream.

[M.Dancer]

These things could make you afraid as it becomes clearer and clearer that your views are out of step with the mainstream.

I suspect you haven't been near the mainstream is eons.

[kengs333]

Prejudices are based on fear.

Seems to me all the tough-talkers like you on here are quite afraid, in reality. There is some justification for that. If you fear living in a place where all people are considered equal, your visions of superiority kind of go out the window. If you fear equal value of each individual, you are living in the wrong country. These things could make you afraid as it becomes clearer and clearer that your views are out of step with the mainstream.

grannyrants,

I don't see anything in this whole Caledonia dispute that suggest people of the Six Nations want to be equal, though. The concept of equality is always used as a smokescreen by groups trying to push a certain agenda. I think just about everyone here wants to see Canada remain a place where everyone has equal rights, but it's you who support a faction that wants to see that changed; a faction that in essence wants to undermine Canada.

[Rue]

Ahhh! Once again you speak for my emotions and feelings when you don't have a clue what they actually are, how very astute of you. Amazing talent you have there.

Now you've had your little hissy fit I will state what I actually think. I do not hate the Mohawk Warrior Society, I scorn them as wanna-be's and posers. Actually I dont hate anyone, hatred is a very non productive and futile emotion, nothing more than a waste of time and energy.

Still, don't let the facts get in your way, that wouldn't be near as much fun as inventing emotions and motives to attribute to people now would it?

In regards to your protested innocence I was about to give you the benefit of doubt until out came the words "scorn them as wana-be'sand posers".

So I now stand corrected You don't hate, you scorn.

In fact my comments were not directed specifically at you at all. Now they are.

Why would you as a soldier even think of comparing yourself to a Mohawk warrior? Doesn't the answer to this comeThe from your own words-the need to scorn and accuse them of illegitimacy? You think its original to suggest aboriginals are "bogus"or "inferior"

More to the point you want talk facts? Do you even have those facts right? You simply assume as a fact that the concept of Mohawk Warrior is defined by these people as the equivalent them being a conventional soldier in the Canadian armed forces.

That is just not true. In fact, its based on a false assumption you make precisely because in your zeal to find a way to rationalize insulting Mohawk Warriors you make subjective assumptions as to who they are, what they stand for and then gothe next step and assume they want to be just like you!

Your assumptions as to how they conceive of themselves as warriors and your assumption they imitate you are both racist.

That is precisely what I am calling people out on- this need to dialogue in a manner that engages in false stereotyping and then uses that false stereotyping to degrade. Why?

Why the need to put down? Why the scorn? Do you think using the word scorn instead of hate really changes anthing?

Using the word scorn to argue its not hatred is kind of trite don't you think?

I am not about to tell you what the warrior concept means. That is precisely the problem. Until you speak with the people who claim to be warriors howwill you ever know what they claim to be?

Are there similiarities between the concept of conventional soldier warrior? . Wellwithout being presumptious enough to thinkI cam explain it the way an aboriginal person could. may I suggest to you are comparing an apple to a baseball. The fact they are both round does not make them the same.

One last thing my dismay is genuine and not directed at you personally. You callit a hissy fit? I like to call it Hebrew Warriorrage. My how are cultural values distort how we see things don't you think? You feel I am some effeminate nut case and I see myself as a Hebrew showing respect to an aboirginal and for that matter you as a soldier precisely because the very precept of my culture teaches me aboriginals in so many ways are superior to me and that is nothing to fear but to welcome.

And no I do not think I am morally superior to you and in the position to tell you. I am asking you. What you call a hissy fit is David looking Goliath in the face and saying big boy back down before I fling a rock at yah.

In this case I think peaceful dialogue in stead of flinging rocks would be more helpful. Its precisely because I do not want tolive in an era of tribal war I say this.

I want to put your profession out of business.

Edited September 25, 2007 by Rue

[Posit]

Sure...and What does Gary McHale want? Or Paul Fromm?

No, people don't want equality IF it means bending the status quo. And then there are the goofs like M.Dancer that just want to be goofs.

[M.Dancer]

Why would you as a soldier even compare yourself to a Mohawk warrior?

These are two concepts that are not the same.

The concepts are irrelevant, much as if full patch bikers considered themselves the flower of chivalry.

While the indian concept of a warrior may be noble and it may even be differnt than the western notion (it ain't) the question arrises, are the gangster of khanewake noble warriors in the tradition of the mohawk warrior?

I think the answser to that is found in their criminal records.

[M.Dancer]

Sure...and What does Gary McHale want? Or Paul Fromm?

No, people don't want equality IF it means bending the status quo. And then there are the goofs like M.Dancer that just want to be goofs.

Listen I will bend the status quoo if you want, but I prefer to bend with people who don't make stuff up as they go. Know what I mean? Nudge nudge wink wink?

[Rue]

I really think Jennie is a troll. Why else would someone continually put out purely indefensible and ignorant comments and then blithely skip away to start up on a different thread?

With due respect I find her ccmments insightful and inspiring. I also am under the impression she startsnew threads when the topic warrants that.

[Rue]

Listen I will bend the status quoo if you want, but I prefer to bend with people who don't make stuff up as they go. Know what I mean? Nudge nudge wink wink?

Nudge nudge wink wink, why is it you make stuff up and then think you can criticize others for doing what you do?

[Rue]

The concepts are irrelevant, much as if full patch bikers considered themselves the flower of chivalry.

While the indian concept of a warrior may be noble and it may even be differnt than the western notion (it ain't) the question arrises, are the gangster of khanewake noble warriors in the tradition of the mohawk warrior?

I think the answser to that is found in their criminal records.

Do you even know what it is? Once again we have someone who uses a false negative stereotype to define what they think it means. The word "noble" is a racist concept created by people like you to describe natives. The fact that it in this case is not per se a negative one, does not make it any more accurate.

[Rue]

Thank you.

However right now I'm eagerly awaiting Jennie's response to my question.

In her all encompassing and infinite wisdom of all things, she has just told me that I know nothing at all about what it means to be a "warrior".

I would beg to differ with her on that point

Then define it for me so I can learn.

[Rue]

I suspect you haven't been near the mainstream is eons.

Why because her stream is in a different location? Seems to me when you don't take the time to check the direction of the wind your mainstream ends upsmack dab in yer face.

[M.Dancer]

The word "noble" is a racist concept created by people like you to describe natives.

That is a half truth, and in your usage it is idiotic nonsense.

The term noble savage is a racist term. I am not calling them noble savages. I am using it in a sense that predates the white indian conflict by hunrededs of year, and I am using it specifically in this sense.

.

Having or showing qualities of high moral character, such as courage, generosity, or honor:

But I will argue that you are correct....

The fact that it in this case is not per se a negative one, does not make it any more accurate.

It would indeed be inaccurate to call the modern mohawk warrior socity noble. They are a criminal gang, nothing more, nothing less.

Any further clarification into what a mohawk warrior creed might be is moot at tis point because unless it includes intimidation, smuggling, theft, murder and assault, they don't meet it.

[Rue]

Here try this Western conceptualization on for size;

1.You are inferior.

2. You are crazy.

3. You make things up.

4.Anything you say is bogus.

5.You are a joke.

6.I have no respect for you.

7. I will ridicule and insult anything you have to say.

If someone said 1-7 to you then said;

8. Tell me....

Would you respond?

Trying to feed steak to a man with no teeth is kind of silly.

Telling a fat man to touch his toes is kind of silly.

Feeding a man beans and then expecting him to do anything but fart is silly.

Does anyone need any more analogies? Cuz I see a lot of non natives farting on this series of posts and no one saying excuse me.

Excuse me.

At least I opened the window.

Edited September 25, 2007 by Rue

[M.Dancer]

So your answer is that like the fat man who can't touch his toes or the toothless man who can't eat steak, expecting self appointed warriors to be morally upstanding is asking too much?

...no no....no hint of racism here...move along now....move along.

[Rue]

Any further clarification into what a mohawk warrior creed might be is moot at tis point because unless it includes intimidation, smuggling, theft, murder and assault, they don't meet it.

So you again indicate you have a closed mind and are not interested in listening to anything unless it confirms to your negative preconceptions.

Uh yah.

When a blind man stumbles and looses his grip and smacks you in the head with his white cane and then loudly proclaims he is blind and you respond by saying; "uh yah I figured that out with when you stuck your cane up my nose.." the essence and quality of the remark may be lost if that blind man is also deaf.

Or even more simply put; there is nothing more ignorant then someone who takes pride in their ignorance.

How about this one; when men full of beans fart they can also stain their pants. Either way it can be unfortunate.

[Rue]

So your answer is that like the fat man who can't touch his toes or the toothless man who can't eat steak, expecting self appointed warriors to be morally upstanding is asking too much?

...no no....no hint of racism here...move along now....move along.

I will as soon as you stop shoving your hand up my butt and claim its because you are blind. Me thinks thou enjoyest thine self.

Thanks I already had my exam for the year.

[M.Dancer]

So you again indicate you have a closed mind and are not interested in listening to anything unless it confirms to your negative preconceptions.

hey brother, I have an open mind.....and I am all for the 4 martini lunch.......

Can we continue this when you are sober and lucid?

[Rue]

Oh wait I am on a roll, people whodemand morality from others should at least themselves refrain from exposing themselves.

Man I just love these folk tales I learned from my learned elders , Jackie Mason and Groucho Marx.

[Rue]

hey brother, I have an open mind.....and I am all for the 4 martini lunch.......

Can we continue this when you are sober and lucid?

Oopsy the fat guy with the eating problem calls me anorexic. Lol. Lucid enough for you fat guy?

[M.Dancer]

Oh wait I am on a roll..........

.............. are you also slathered with mustard and covered with smoke meat or are you smeared with mayo and covered with ham and cheese.............

.........heavy on the ham, heavy on the cheese.

[Borg]

Armed thugs with a law that is different and provides special treatment.

No white guy could do those things and not be arrested.

Two tier society.

Borg

[jennie]

That is a half truth, and in your usage it is idiotic nonsense.

The term noble savage is a racist term. I am not calling them noble savages. I am using it in a sense that predates the white indian conflict by hunrededs of year, and I am using it specifically in this sense.

.

But I will argue that you are correct....

It would indeed be inaccurate to call the modern mohawk warrior socity noble. They are a criminal gang, nothing more, nothing less.

Any further clarification into what a mohawk warrior creed might be is moot at tis point because unless it includes intimidation, smuggling, theft, murder and assault, they don't meet it.

Would you please provide evidence to defend those allegations please.

[jennie]

Armed thugs with a law that is different and provides special treatment.

No white guy could do those things and not be arrested.

Two tier society.

Borg

No arms (you lie), no thugs, and Canada's Constitution is the same for us all.

I am becoming jaded about the quality of 'white guys' from hanging out around here:

I am beginning to fear that no white guy could do those things, period.

Where are all the white guys fighting for our environment? Stopping the developers from paving the greenfields?

Stopping the uranium mines, and other mines that want to use our waterways for toxic dumping grounds?

Stopping the clearcutting and chemical monoculture replanting?

Why aren't you out there looking out for your children and grandchildren?

[Borg]

No arms (you lie), no thugs, and Canada's Constitution is the same for us all.

I am becoming jaded about the quality of 'white guys' from hanging out around here:

I am beginning to fear that no white guy could do those things, period.

Where are all the white guys fighting for our environment? Stopping the developers from paving the greenfields?

Stopping the uranium mines, and other mines that want to use our waterways for toxic dumping grounds?

Stopping the clearcutting and chemical monoculture replanting?

Why aren't you out there looking out for your children and grandchildren?

I quite believe you are simply trolling.

My comments stand - two tier laws - one for the Indian and one for the remainder.

Borg