Provincial Polls

[jdobbin]

http://canadianpress.google.com/article/AL...FotbEoU6ybTIjqQ

Ontario's Progressive Conservatives headed into the election campaign facing an uphill battle to form the next provincial government, a new Canadian Press-Harris/Decima survey suggests.

And there's evidence the hill became steeper in the days just prior to the formal start of the campaign, as Conservative Leader John Tory stumbled with his proposal to provide public funding for faith-based schools.

A survey of 721 residents, gathered over the last four days of last week, put Liberal support at 41 per cent, compared with 33 per cent for the Conservatives, 13 per cent for the New Democrats and 11 per cent for the Greens.

The poll's margin of error is 3.7 percentage points, 19 times out of 20. But the pollsters also combined their latest survey with polling conducted during the previous two weeks, creating what Harris-Decima president Bruce Anderson called a "rolling average" with an error margin of about 3.1 percentage points.

Anderson says the result is a "remarkable" and "statistically significant" increase in the Liberal lead over the Conservatives.

Looks like Tory has put his foot in his mouth one too many times during the campaign.

[Shakeyhands]

and nothing on offer either, I mean come on.... One of the only significant things he has on McGuinty is the health tax, too bad it was necessary after the Harris/Eves debacle. Most thinking adults realize this. All kinds of improvements here in the last few years.

[geoffrey]

and nothing on offer either, I mean come on.... One of the only significant things he has on McGuinty is the health tax, too bad it was necessary after the Harris/Eves debacle. Most thinking adults realize this. All kinds of improvements here in the last few years.

It's always easier to tax than to do the responsible thing and restrict spending. All that money he tossed to cricket clubs and other untracked strings free cash may have eliminated some of that shortfall.

[Posit]

The Health Care system was in crisis mode when McGuinty took over. Harris had plundered the public institutions in a failed attempt to punish the administration. It backfired when the administrations of health, education and natural resources simply passed the buck on to the end users. IMO McGuinty did the right thing.

As far as governance, McGuinty's government has been quietly restoring confidence in the three institutions Harris gutted. He still has a long way to go. Besides, John Tory has claimed he will gut the institutions if he gets elected and return to Harris style government.

The worst part about John Tory IMV is that he says he will take a confrontational position to First Nation lands claims. That can only further degrade the relationships all Ontarians have with First Nations and lead to more violent and more frequent clashes. I don't want that and I'm sure most Ontarians don't want to wake up to their streets their houses are on being blocked and no access to water, groceries or emergency services simply because the government is determined to ignore valid and legal claims and piss on the natives at the same time.

John Tory is a threat to public peace and goodwill.

Edited September 12, 2007 by Posit

[jennie]

The Health Care system was in crisis mode when McGuinty took over. Harris had plundered the public institutions in a failed attempt to punish the administration. It backfired when the administrations of health, education and natural resources simply passed the buck on to the end users. IMO McGuinty did the right thing.

As far as governance, McGuinty's government has been quietly restoring confidence in the three institutions Harris gutted. He still has a long way to go. Besides, John Tory has claimed he will gut the institutions if he gets elected and return to Harris style government.

The worst part about John Tory IMV is that he says he will take a confrontational position to First Nation lands claims. That can only further degrade the relationships all Ontarians have with First Nations and lead to more violent and more frequent clashes. I don't want that and I'm sure most Ontarians don't want to wake up to their streets their houses are on being blocked and no access to water, groceries or emergency services simply because the government is determined to ignore valid and legal claims and piss on the natives at the same time.

John Tory is a threat to public peace and goodwill.

Well said posit.

Now let's hear McGuinty say something about how his government WILL consult with First Nations regarding traditional and treaty land, because he has NOT said it. Howard Hampton had said it, but for it to happen, McGuinty will have to go public about it.

[guyser]

I don't want that and I'm sure most Ontarians don't want to wake up to their streets their houses are on being blocked and no access to water, groceries or emergency services simply because the government is determined to ignore valid and legal claims and piss on the natives at the same time.

John Tory is a threat to public peace and goodwill.

Ah the good old threat angle. Well done.

Yes of course , you dont want to see that do you. Hardly, no not at all, never , nope.

Are you First Nation?

[fellowtraveller]

The Health Care system was in crisis mode when McGuinty took over

Name a place and time in Canada when the 'Health System' was not or is not in crisis.

I look forward to the day when our country can have a reasoned, intelligent discussion on this topic, but it won't be today or tomorrow.

It will be when we can accept that: a) there are no 'good old days' for health care in this country there will never be enough money -never- for us all to live happily and forever.

[capricorn]

It will be when we can accept that: a) there are no 'good old days' for health care in this country there will never be enough money -never- for us all to live happily and forever.

IMO McGuinty will be reelected.

ft, for the exact same thing you said here, I predict that McGuinty will INCREASE the health tax.

Look at it this way. The message to the Liberals will be Ontarians are really not that opposed to or upset by the health tax. Taxpayers cherish public health care. More money is required to feed the health care beast.

[mikedavid00]

http://canadianpress.google.com/article/AL...FotbEoU6ybTIjqQ

Looks like Tory has put his foot in his mouth one too many times during the campaign.

Yeah it could be the ethnic schooling.

Like there's what the media wants to believe, there's what Tory wants you to believe, but then there's what the people actually think.

However I have to say that most elections go this route (in Canada). The beginning will be the status quo, then later if there starts to become upwards momentum with Tory then he'll take majority.

I'll wait for another couple of weeks and hopefull the numbers wont change much.

Look.. i can't be the ONLY conservative who's going to vote Liberal this time around because Tory ruined my vote.

[guyser]

who's going to vote Liberal this time around

This time?

When was there a "last time?"

[mikedavid00]

The Health Care system was in crisis mode when McGuinty took over.

Lol.

The healthcare system in Canada is in crisi with or without McGuinty.

[mikedavid00]

This time?

When was there a "last time?"

Heheh there never was a time..

The Schooling is too important.

HEY GUYSER, DO YOU SUPPORT CULTURAL ETHNIC SCHOOLING??

HEY GUYSER?

[guyser]

Heheh there never was a time..

So you havent voted before. OK, at least you are honest.

HEY GUYSER, DO YOU SUPPORT CULTURAL ETHNIC SCHOOLING??

HEY GUYSER?

Ok ok dont yell.

I am not sure where I am on this.

Prior to Tory's pronouncement I was against anything but the public system. One school only for all. I was for abolishing the Catholic system as I live in a city that has so much fluctuation in enrollment that having a school sit half empty while PS#1 down the street is bursting at the seams was illogical to me.

The ability to have two disfunctional, bloated school boards was appaling to me. The bureacracy that runs both is astronomical, and to me never made sense. Double mid managers, trustees , etc. Kind of stupid I thought.

But Tory and his idea to fund individual students and have them make a choice, and provided it falls in the paramaters as laid out by provincial educators, to me at least is not all that bad.

Still sitting on the fence with this one.I imagine in due course , that I will go back to my original thought and abolish all religious (its not ethnic by the way) public funded schools.

But then again, I went to a private school in midtown Toronto. Because of bad admin everywhere and the lack of brains my public school admins showed

[equality]

It's always easier to tax than to do the responsible thing and restrict spending. All that money he tossed to cricket clubs and other untracked strings free cash may have eliminated some of that shortfall.

When was the last time you saw a multicultural hockey team or football team? Read between the lines. Who plays Cricket? If you're concerned about responsible spending, then how come you don't mention the mess created by good old Harris and the gang? Memories are really short among some Ontarians these days. I remember in 1996 when my toddler was sent home twice from the same emergency room the same night. By morning she was so sick she couldn't move. When I called a family member, who worked for health care at the time, I was instructed to go to the hospital a third time and refuse to leave until my daughter was given appropriate care. I was told to threaten a law suit if she wasn't cared for and something grave happened. When I went to the hospital, the same people who had been waiting 12 hours earlier were there. There were hospital beds everywhere along the halls with people in them. When we arrived at the hospital, her temp. was taken and it was 104. She was stripped nude to let the air bring her temp down and given a heavy dose of tylenol. We still waited hours. I would have waited days. She had pneumonia. She could have died. The cutbacks led to hospitals being run as though people and health didn't matter only saving money mattered. I was still sent home with and told to expose her to cold mist. I called my family member who told me how to set her room up like the oxygen tents are set up in the hospitals. At that time in my life, I was 4 hours away from everyone I knew. I believe those phone calls saved my daughters life--not the Harris Hospital. That's one of my run in with the medical profession from that era. Many people can share the same stories. I had a baby a year ago. The hospitals are running smoother. The system is far from perfect, but hiring 800 nurses will help as oppose to building a number of faith based schools with public dollars.

[equality]

Name a place and time in Canada when the 'Health System' was not or is not in crisis.

I look forward to the day when our country can have a reasoned, intelligent discussion on this topic, but it won't be today or tomorrow.

It will be when we can accept that: a) there are no 'good old days' for health care in this country there will never be enough money -never- for us all to live happily and forever.

Saddly, I believe you are very right! Eventually, Ontarians will be required to pay more and more of their medical bills out of their pockets. This does have to do with some abuses of the system. I've heard of many examples of abuse by none other than some of our very own neighbors. Demands for unecessary test, etc. The doctors hands are tied with respect to declining patient requests. This is an issue all of its own. To bad the politians wouldn't discuss this issue or offer solutions.

[equality]

So you havent voted before. OK, at least you are honest.

Ok ok dont yell.

I am not sure where I am on this.

Prior to Tory's pronouncement I was against anything but the public system. One school only for all. I was for abolishing the Catholic system as I live in a city that has so much fluctuation in enrollment that having a school sit half empty while PS#1 down the street is bursting at the seams was illogical to me.

The ability to have two disfunctional, bloated school boards was appaling to me. The bureacracy that runs both is astronomical, and to me never made sense. Double mid managers, trustees , etc. Kind of stupid I thought.

But Tory and his idea to fund individual students and have them make a choice, and provided it falls in the paramaters as laid out by provincial educators, to me at least is not all that bad.

Still sitting on the fence with this one.I imagine in due course , that I will go back to my original thought and abolish all religious (its not ethnic by the way) public funded schools.

But then again, I went to a private school in midtown Toronto. Because of bad admin everywhere and the lack of brains my public school admins showed

How was private school? I wouldn't know, and I can assure you my children will never know. I mean the family has to eat and have housing. I have to save my pennies for pizza day at the local public school. LOL

[guyser]

When was the last time you saw a multicultural hockey team or football team?

The last time I played two years ago. PLenty of diversity.

Read between the lines. Who plays Cricket?

Your point is not lost on me, but I can also say that those in the cricket club likely knew where and how to get the money.

If you're concerned about responsible spending, then how come you don't mention the mess created by good old Harris and the gang? Memories are really short among some Ontarians these days.

Uh oh, here comes the blame harris gang. Apprently he killed people up in Walkerton too.Which I assure you if you look at the facts, he did no such thing.Was he great, nope. But he was never as bad as suggested by some. And really, that was some time ago.

I remember in 1996 when my toddler was sent home twice from the same emergency room the same night. By morning she was so sick she couldn't move. When I called a family member, who worked for health care at the time, I was instructed to go to the hospital a third time and refuse to leave until my daughter was given appropriate care. I was told to threaten a law suit if she wasn't cared for and something grave happened. When I went to the hospital, the same people who had been waiting 12 hours earlier were there.

I am glad you were there for your daughter and am pleased to read she turned out okay.

That said, Harris did not tell people to misdiagnose your daughter. In a triage environment, someone assessed your daughter incorrectly. Lack of funds may have made your situation worse, but considering that most nurses and doctors are family people, I can reasonably assume they made an error, not trying to teach Ont a lesson by refusing a child emergency care.

[M.Dancer]

When was the last time you saw a multicultural hockey team or football team?

last winter at Ramdsen park. It was a pick up game, but I'm sure that counts. There were a couple of asians, a few Italians....and at least one Brit. But honestly, have you seen the names on the average NHL rooster? Ther are swedes, poles Germans Czechs, french, anglos, italians......

Isn't that multicultural?

Edited September 13, 2007 by M.Dancer

[mikedavid00]

Seems that the latest polls are out from Ipsos Ried and Tory will be going down.

"Faith-Based Funding A Clear Loser For John Tory"

Almost 2/3rds say that they do not agree with 'faith based' schooling.

With that much vote, it means that the immigrants must have been opposed to this also. It almost seems like the 30% would be the caucasion vote alone so this is suprising to me.

There are far too many Conservaitves and Libearls and probably the majority here that are more interested in being 'fair' and helping people who are xenephobic and want to ghettoise themselves away from Canada.

The West are very fair, cosmopolitan people who are non xenephobic and not afraid of other cultures. But they are also nieve sometimes.

The immigrants know very, very well what religious schooling means becuase they know how their home countries use religion and gov't combined to excersise control and power of the people and thank God the lights went on with these people and they realized in part what makes the west, the west. It's the fact that we seperate religion and state.

I'm sure the Sikh, Muslim, and Jewish would have loved to get their hands in the cookie jar and everyone in their culture and community could have went to all the gov't baquets and lined their pockets. Millions up for grabs from John Tory.

I say they can all go to Hell and that includes Tory.

Tory, Go to hell and take your Trudeau idealisms with you. Thanks for almost trying to ruin the country.

(And that's coming from the most conservative on this forum most likely)

[uOttawaMan]

The Health Care system was in crisis mode when McGuinty took over. Harris had plundered the public institutions in a failed attempt to punish the administration. It backfired when the administrations of health, education and natural resources simply passed the buck on to the end users. IMO McGuinty did the right thing.

As far as governance, McGuinty's government has been quietly restoring confidence in the three institutions Harris gutted. He still has a long way to go. Besides, John Tory has claimed he will gut the institutions if he gets elected and return to Harris style government.

The worst part about John Tory IMV is that he says he will take a confrontational position to First Nation lands claims. That can only further degrade the relationships all Ontarians have with First Nations and lead to more violent and more frequent clashes. I don't want that and I'm sure most Ontarians don't want to wake up to their streets their houses are on being blocked and no access to water, groceries or emergency services simply because the government is determined to ignore valid and legal claims and piss on the natives at the same time.

John Tory is a threat to public peace and goodwill.

Hahaha... look.. I'm not a fan of this PC platform, plain and simple.

However that bs about streets being blocked because the government is ignoring so called "valid and legal claims" is hilarious.

If any protester tried to block off my street, they'd have another thing coming. I don't care about your issue, get the hell outta my way. If the OPP won't move you, I'll sure as hell try.

[jdobbin]

Latest Ipsos poll on the Ontario election.

http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_14861.aspx

Polls show the Liberals continue to hold a slim lead over the Progressive Conservatives in the provincial election campaign.

An Ipsos-Reid survey gives the Liberals 40 per cent support, down one point from last week. While the Tories gained a point to 37 per cent and the NDP are at 16.

But it's a different story in Toronto (poll pictured). Here, the Liberals are down five points, the Conservatives are up six percentage points and the NDP slipped a bit.

[M.Dancer]

Latest Ipsos poll on the Ontario election.

http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_14861.aspx

If the signs are any indication (??)..all the signs indicate a Michael Bryant landslide in St Paul's. Now of course St Pauls is home to afew faith based private schools...St. Mike's, De Lasalle....I suppose Bishop Strachan doesn't count.....

[jdobbin]

Latest Decima poll on Ontario election.

http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTV...hub=TorontoHome

"No question that this poll should be read as good news for the Liberals," Harris-Decima president Bruce Anderson said Wednesday in an interview from Ottawa.

"The advantage has slipped toward Mr. McGuinty now."

The five-day survey that wrapped up Monday found the Liberals at 41 per cent support, the Conservatives at 32 per cent, the New Democrats 14 per cent and the Greens 12 per cent.

Results of the survey of 704 residents - it carries a margin of error of 3.7 percentage points, 19 times out of 20 - is substantially similar to a Harris-Decima poll done for The Canadian Press in the days just before the campaign formally got underway Sept. 10.

[jdobbin]

Latest Ipsos poll on Ontario election.

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/politics...7fd&k=33388

The Liberals have opened up a 10-point lead over the Progressive Conservatives and are on track for a majority victory in the Ontario election, says the latest poll done for CanWest News Service.

According to the Ipsos Reid survey, Dalton McGuinty’s Liberals have the support of 43 per cent of decided voters, compared to 33 per cent for John Tory’s Conservatives. The NDP and Green party trail with 17 per cent and six per cent respectively. Only five per cent of Ontarians are still undecided.

“It’s not over until it’s over, but it’s a yawning gap,” John Wright, Ipsos Reid’s senior vice president, said Friday.

“The reality is it’s going to be a hard climb for Mr. Tory to win. It’s going to be very difficult to turn this ship around.”

Using an aggregate of five recent polls, including the latest Ipsos Reid survey, DemocraticSpace is now projecting the Liberals to win 60 seats, a comfortable majority in the 107-seat legislature.

The projection projects the Conservatives to win 35 seats and the NDP 12, while the Green party to be shut out. At dissolution, the Liberals held 67 seats, the Conservatives 25 and the NDP 10, with one independent. The legislature has added four seats due to a reorganization that takes effect with this election.

The Liberals’ 10-point lead is their largest since the campaign began Sept. 3, breaking open what had been a stagnant contest. The previous Ipsos Reid survey on Sept. 20 gave the governing Liberals a narrow three-point edge over the Tories.

This comes on heel of an Environics poll.

http://torontosun.com/News/OtherNews/2007/...535964-sun.html

But an Environics Research poll, conducted Sept. 21-25, puts the Liberals at 39%, Tories at 34% and NDP at 20%.

While 58% oppose the religious school plan, the poll says most people don't plan to let it affect their vote.

Environics found health and promise keeping/breaking were more influential issues.

The poll is considered accurate plus or minus 4.4%.

It looks like a Liberal majority if the numbers hold. The SES poll is out next week.

[Argus]

The last time I played two years ago. PLenty of diversity.

Bullshit. I've been to Senators games over the last few years, and traveled to Toronto a time or two to watch a game. The thing which gets me is that it's almost as if they put signs up over the entrance "Whites only". The only non-whites tend to be the concession staff and security guards.

I might add that I also worked for the blood bank a couple of years ago and it struck me then, on seeing the line-ups of people coming in to give blood, to see if there was a sign that said "White blood only" over the front door.