The Power of Prayer

[cybercoma]

A short video on the power of prayer...

[Riverwind]

A short video on the power of prayer...

Why do you care if someone prays to a god that you don't believe in?

[ScottSA]

A short video on the power of prayer...

What's with this incessant attack on Christianity? If you don't think prayer is good, then don't pray. What a facile ignorant video...geeeez...does this moron seriously think he's talking to adults?

Edited July 11, 2007 by ScottSA

[cybercoma]

Why do you care if someone prays to a god that you don't believe in?

I care because it is that God that people (whether Christian, Jewish or Muslim) are using as a reason to kill, torture and otherwise oppress others because they feel this imaginary God gives them a moral "right".

[Bonam]

Assuming for a moment that the scientific studies cited in the end part of the video are true, namely that groups who pray have no higher incidence of the desired outcome than groups who do not pray, what is the point of praying?

[jefferiah]

Why do you care if someone prays to a god that you don't believe in?

I care because it is that God that people (whether Christian, Jewish or Muslim) are using as a reason to kill, torture and otherwise oppress others because they feel this imaginary God gives them a moral "right".

Are most believers in God killing? Do you feel threatened by the local church goers in your community? Are they leading attacks against you? Sure people can use God as an excuse. You can use anything. Didnt Mark David Chapman use The Catcher in The Rye? Why aren't you concerned over that?

[cybercoma]

Assuming for a moment that the scientific studies cited in the end part of the video are true, namely that groups who pray have no higher incidence of the desired outcome than groups who do not pray, what is the point of praying?

You should look into the studies, they're as true as we can determine. The theory has been tested and the results repeated. If anyone can prove the healing power of prayer, they should submit their claim to the James Randi Educational Foundation's Million Dollar Challenge and cash in, or have the money donated to their favourite cause. Childhood cancer research is one of my favourites.

[jefferiah]

Please stop your pretence of being concerned.

[Bonam]

You should look into the studies, they're as true as we can determine.

I'm sure they probably are. Personally, I don't need any further evidence not to believe in religion at this point, as I already am not a believer. The remark of "assuming for a moment" was more aimed at other people, who are religious, to see how they would reply. I'm guessing that the most reflexive response would be to question the validity of those studies, and wanted to see what the next response would be.

[cybercoma]

Are most believers in God killing? Do you feel threatened by the local church goers in your community? Are they leading attacks against you? Sure people can use God as an excuse. You can use anything. Didnt Mark David Chapman use The Catcher in The Rye? Why aren't you concerned over that?

I'm not concerned about the Catcher in the Rye because it is not systemically being forced into the minds of children from birth. There are lots of reasons people do terrible things, but, "for good people to do evil, that takes religion."

Do I feel threatened by local church goers? That depends on a number of things. I suppose if I were gay, I might be concerned, considering recently a homosexual was put into the hospital after being beaten by church goers. Perhaps if I was a woman and my church going doctor refused to prescribe birth control or a morning after pill if I were raped, I would be concerned. Maybe if I was an atheist at Ryerson, I would feel threatened by local church goers.

So what does it matter if I personally feel threatened? I think society needs to be a lot more progressive and it is impossible with the burden of unreasonable beliefs being forced upon children before they know any better.

[cybercoma]

I'm guessing that the most reflexive response would be to question the validity of those studies, and wanted to see what the next response would be.

Evidently, the most reflexive response is to attack me for posting the video, and make up assumptions about my reasons for doing it.

[jefferiah]

Are most believers in God killing? Do you feel threatened by the local church goers in your community? Are they leading attacks against you? Sure people can use God as an excuse. You can use anything. Didnt Mark David Chapman use The Catcher in The Rye? Why aren't you concerned over that?

I'm not concerned about the Catcher in the Rye because it is not systemically being forced into the minds of children from birth. There are lots of reasons people do terrible things, but, "for good people to do evil, that takes religion."

Do I feel threatened by local church goers? That depends on a number of things. I suppose if I were gay, I might be concerned, considering recently a homosexual was put into the hospital after being beaten by church goers. Perhaps if I was a woman and my church going doctor refused to prescribe birth control or a morning after pill if I were raped, I would be concerned. Maybe if I was an atheist at Ryerson, I would feel threatened by local church goers.

So what does it matter if I personally feel threatened? I think society needs to be a lot more progressive and it is impossible with the burden of unreasonable beliefs being forced upon children before they know any better.

How many church goers are active in beatings of homosexuals? Cmon, be realistic here. I knew people who went to Boy Scouts that gave someone a wedgie once. Are you ready to add Boy Scouts to the list? And I dont buy your "the children boohoo" for one minute. You probably know someone who goes to church, they are not hurting people. Mennonites are not hurting you. But how would you get rid of religion. Penalize believers? You are more of a tyrant than most religious people.

[ScottSA]

You should look into the studies, they're as true as we can determine.

I'm sure they probably are. Personally, I don't need any further evidence not to believe in religion at this point, as I already am not a believer. The remark of "assuming for a moment" was more aimed at other people, who are religious, to see how they would reply. I'm guessing that the most reflexive response would be to question the validity of those studies, and wanted to see what the next response would be.

I can't believe this level of discussion is even being taken seriously. Do atheists actually believe that prayer is intended to, or is promoted as, a way of "getting stuff?" Is that what atheists think?

[cybercoma]

Would you like to jump to anymore conclusions? I never once suggested that religious believers be punished for their beliefs, that's completely idiotic. I also never said that all church goers beat homosexuals, but it is religious thinking that makes people believe (faithfully) that they have a moral right to beat homosexuals, women and non-believers.

[jefferiah]

The truth is you just have a chip on your shoulder about religion. Nothing more nothing less. You don't give a damn about children or anything else. So its simple for you. Just be who you want to be. I dont go to church and I have done some very anti-Christian things and nobody ever burned me at the stake for it. You are so vehement about this. You would think you are undergoing military attacks from the old Anglican ladies.

[jefferiah]

Would you like to jump to anymore conclusions? I never once suggested that religious believers be punished for their beliefs, that's completely idiotic. I also never said that all church goers beat homosexuals, but it is religious thinking that makes people believe (faithfully) that they have a moral right to beat homosexuals, women and non-believers.

OK but that is not what I believe. Given stuff Jesus said I dont think he would have beaten any homosexuals. So because some people can take it one way does that mean it should be banned. That brings back to just about anything else that can be used, and thus we are back at The Catcher in The Rye. And then there are kitchen utensils as well, which can be used for ill. Or cars.

[ScottSA]

Would you like to jump to anymore conclusions? I never once suggested that religious believers be punished for their beliefs, that's completely idiotic. I also never said that all church goers beat homosexuals, but it is religious thinking that makes people believe (faithfully) that they have a moral right to beat homosexuals, women and non-believers.

Right...so this thread has really nothing to do with pryer, because only a galloping ignoramus would believe that people pray to get stuff, so it's merely to give you a strawman platform from which to launch more attacks at religion.

The funny thing is that you're one of the folks who will someday have a religious experience, turn it into a major epiphany, and then set about plaguing innocent atheists with attacks on their beliefs instead.

[cybercoma]

I can't believe this level of discussion is even being taken seriously Do atheists actually believe that prayer is intended to, or is promoted as, a way of "getting stuff?" Is that what atheists think?

Who knows what atheists think. They're as different as every culture on the planet.

I can tell you what theists believe, though. Theists believe that praying to God gets results. Why else would they pray for the sick, pray for the hungry, pray for the non-believers, pray for whatever it is that they pray for?

[jefferiah]

"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change those things I can, and wisdom to know the difference."

Big difference between those words and:

"Yo, Big Guy, send me a Porsche"

He most definitely is one of those Scott. I will place money on him being Christian in the future.

[cybercoma]

OK but that is not what I believe. Given stuff Jesus said I dont think he would have beaten any homosexuals. So because some people can take it one way does that mean it should be banned. That brings back to just about anything else that can be used, and thus we are back at The Catcher in The Rye. And then there are kitchen utensils as well, which can be used for ill. Or cars.

That's wonderful that your personal idea of Christ doesn't give you moral justification to go out and beat homosexuals. Unfortunately, the unquestioning reverence you demand for your religion allows those who do find justification in the Bible to get away with murder.

No. I don't believe religion should be banned. I do think people should be educated about its lies.

[jefferiah]

OK but that is not what I believe. Given stuff Jesus said I dont think he would have beaten any homosexuals. So because some people can take it one way does that mean it should be banned. That brings back to just about anything else that can be used, and thus we are back at The Catcher in The Rye. And then there are kitchen utensils as well, which can be used for ill. Or cars.

That's wonderful that your personal idea of Christ doesn't give you moral justification to go out and beat homosexuals. Unfortunately, the unquestioning reverence you demand for your religion allows those who do find justification in the Bible to get away with murder.

No. I don't believe religion should be banned. I do think people should be educated about its lies.

People who want justification for something will find it wherever they please. Even in your words if they like.

[cybercoma]

Do you guys honestly expect replies to the ad hominem attacks?

[ScottSA]

I can't believe this level of discussion is even being taken seriously Do atheists actually believe that prayer is intended to, or is promoted as, a way of "getting stuff?" Is that what atheists think?

Who knows what atheists think. They're as different as every culture on the planet.

I can tell you what theists believe, though. Theists believe that praying to God gets results. Why else would they pray for the sick, pray for the hungry, pray for the non-believers, pray for whatever it is that they pray for?

If you're not a theist, how would you know what theists pray about? I see what your problem is though...you have an incredibly shallow understanding of what prayer is all about. Do you actually think prayers for the poor are to send them cash, or that prayers for the unbelievers are to give them epiphanies and turn them into believers? That video is, I suppose, meant to be clever, in spite of its ridiculous condescension, but all it really did was underline the shallowness of at least one film-making atheist's understanding of theism. You didn't really think it was clever, did you?

[Riverwind]

I can tell you what theists believe, though. Theists believe that praying to God gets results. Why else would they pray for the sick, pray for the hungry, pray for the non-believers, pray for whatever it is that they pray for?

Because it makes them feel better - they don't need anymore justification. I find it interesting that you reject the idea that all atheists think alike but in the next sentence you make sweeping generalizations about why theists do what they do. Your understanding of religion is cartoonish that has little or no connection with the faith that many people have.

[Bonam]

ScottSA.. so when people pray and ask for certain things, they are not actually expecting or hoping for any of their prayers to be answered? Could you explain to an ignorant atheist like myself the purpose of prayer if there is no expectation or desire of the prayer to be answered and some aspect of the real world altered as a result? Is it just to feel better, knowing that praying or not will not affect any worldly events? Is it simply part of the ritual and procedure of an institutionalized religion, with no particular thought or importance placed on its effectiveness? Is it restricted to hoping for intervention only on issues related to the supernatural, like one's immortal soul? What is the purpose of prayer?