jdobbin Posted July 2, 2007 Report Posted July 2, 2007 Forgive me if I don't even bother opening the "study." Anyone who has even been within spitting distance of the ivory halls knows very well that "recent studies" pretty much reach a priori conclusions. My understanding is that public healthcare takes over from private when a certain threshold is reached. My understanding is that no person in the US is denied healthcare.Without looking at the study, I'll hazard a guess that the argument is that public healthcare does an inadequate job of providing for the people whoi use it...am I right? Consider then the thousands of people in canada...every single one of us, who are dying for exactly the same reason...long lines and inadequate healthcare. In fact, I bet this is more a condemnation of public healthcare than of private. I pretty much figured that you wouldn't even look at it. Just don't say that no one has put a figure to it. Every 30 seconds in the U.S, according to Harvard University, someone files for bankruptcy due to healthcare costs. http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml A recent study by Harvard University researchers found that the average out-of-pocket medical debt for those who filed for bankruptcy was $12,000. The study noted that 68 percent of those who filed for bankruptcy had health insurance. In addition, the study found that 50 percent of all bankruptcy filings were partly the result of medical expenses (14). Every 30 seconds in the United States someone files for bankruptcy in the aftermath of a serious health problem. Quote
weaponeer Posted July 2, 2007 Report Posted July 2, 2007 No, I don't hate our social system, I think it absolves people of their responsibilities. Families are not important, the gov't will pay our bills, look after our kids etc... any probs/issues, the gov't will solve it... How so? Family is important. Who are you getting your info from? The govt does not pay our bills. I don't know about you but I pay my own hydro... The govt does not look after our kids. Daycares (usually private -- a mom with an extra room or the YMCA) are paid by the working person. If working person earns lotsa dough then they pay for it, if not the govt kicks in so that the working poor can keep working. This is a bad idea? Is is better for a single parent to work at Zellers (getting a $300/month subsidy for daycare) or stay at home and collect welfare ($1000/month). Which is less? Which costs the taxpayer less? I believe in personal responsibility. You helped make yourself sick, you should pay something. You hurt somebody, you get out your cheque book... Of course. And when your 16 yo son wrecks his car -- do you want him to be saddled with a $250,000 debt for making a mistake by driving too fast? We do, we pay health insurance premiums on top of the taxes that are collected from us. So our medical system certainly is not "free". I did see the movie John Q, lots of BS in it. I lived in Oklahoma, I talked about the whole healthcare issue alot with my neighbours. They are not in favor of our system at all. They can purcahse group health plans, combine home auto and health insurance into a packages. They can tailor their coverage etc.... You can buy insurance to cover you for long term care, loss of wages etc... or you can choose not too...your choice not the gov'ts...No way! Combine me and my car on one policy -- that is too funny. (and rather convoluted I would think). Well, the car is covered for scratches but your not! LOL Yes, if my 16 old son seriously hurt someone while being stupid he should pay, and be saddled with a debt. The person he hurt may be saddled with no legs!! There are consequences for our actions. Quote
margrace Posted July 2, 2007 Report Posted July 2, 2007 They die Margrace. It's hard to fathom how people think though isn't it? "survival of the fittest" is "survival of the richest" How ridiculous. Private healthcare kills people now? It is hard to talk to anyone who wasn't around when going to a doctor was almost impossible. We were farmers and did not have that kind of money. And some of my people did die because they could not affor the doctors or the private hospitals. Quote
margrace Posted July 2, 2007 Report Posted July 2, 2007 They die Margrace. It's hard to fathom how people think though isn't it? "survival of the fittest" is "survival of the richest" Actually I am talking about a large tax cut, 50-70% range. We tend to forget when we compare our system to the US system (in order to scare Canadians) that our American counterparts pay far less taxes than we do. I lived in the USA for years, if you had a job you had healthcare, and far better than we have here. I live in North Bay ON, hospital there is a joke to say the least. I take my family to the USA for anything major. You see, we already have a two tiered system. Why should I pay taxes through the ass so some guy that smokes 3 pack a day can have a new lung. Where is his responsibility in this. A person whom acts foolishly and causes the injury to another, should they not pay something for the treatment of the one they harmed... but again, leftards do not understand the concept of personal responsibility.... only the culture of entitlment.... If you make below a certain income level, you get medicare, everyone else buys insurance.... I use North Bay hospitals and compared to mone like Orillia it is heaven. I never found anything wrong in my treatment and we have great doctors. A lot of them live up here because they appreciate the life style. What exactly is it you want, just to punish people for living? Your idea the rich get richer and we kick the poorer people down. Quote
Canuck E Stan Posted July 2, 2007 Report Posted July 2, 2007 They can purcahse group health plans, combine home auto and health insurance into a packages. I've never heard of a comparision of auto and home insurance between the US and Canada,is there a big difference in those two? Quote "Any man under 30 who is not a liberal has no heart, and any man over 30 who is not a conservative has no brains." — Winston Churchill
weaponeer Posted July 2, 2007 Report Posted July 2, 2007 They can purcahse group health plans, combine home auto and health insurance into a packages. I've never heard of a comparision of auto and home insurance between the US and Canada,is there a big difference in those two? My point was about private health insurance. Where I lived in Oklahoma you could purcahse your auto, home and health insurance from the same company and get reduced rates.... Quote
margrace Posted July 2, 2007 Report Posted July 2, 2007 [ .... I did see the movie John Q, lots of BS in it. I lived in Oklahoma, I talked about the whole healthcare issue alot with my neighbours. They are not in favor of our system at all. They can purcahse group health plans, combine home auto and health insurance into a packages. They can tailor their coverage etc.... You can buy insurance to cover you for long term care, loss of wages etc... or you can choose not too...your choice not the gov'ts... Well I don't know about Oaklahoma health care but I do have a friend with children in school there. Parents have to either pay or raise money to fund education as much as 50% Quote
margrace Posted July 2, 2007 Report Posted July 2, 2007 They can purcahse group health plans, combine home auto and health insurance into a packages. I've never heard of a comparision of auto and home insurance between the US and Canada,is there a big difference in those two? My point was about private health insurance. Where I lived in Oklahoma you could purcahse your auto, home and health insurance from the same company and get reduced rates.... You know weaponeer, you are the kind of person who should pay for health care, if you have that kind of money. What exactly is the medium income in North Bay? Quote
ScottSA Posted July 2, 2007 Report Posted July 2, 2007 They can purcahse group health plans, combine home auto and health insurance into a packages. I've never heard of a comparision of auto and home insurance between the US and Canada,is there a big difference in those two? My point was about private health insurance. Where I lived in Oklahoma you could purcahse your auto, home and health insurance from the same company and get reduced rates.... You know weaponeer, you are the kind of person who should pay for health care, if you have that kind of money. What exactly is the medium income in North Bay? I'm sure he'd love to, but that's the whole point. Under the canadian system he can't. Quote
Canuck E Stan Posted July 2, 2007 Report Posted July 2, 2007 I'm sure he'd love to, but that's the whole point. Under the canadian system he can't. And Margrace is arguing against privitization? Quote "Any man under 30 who is not a liberal has no heart, and any man over 30 who is not a conservative has no brains." — Winston Churchill
margrace Posted July 2, 2007 Report Posted July 2, 2007 They can purcahse group health plans, combine home auto and health insurance into a packages. I've never heard of a comparision of auto and home insurance between the US and Canada,is there a big difference in those two? My point was about private health insurance. Where I lived in Oklahoma you could purcahse your auto, home and health insurance from the same company and get reduced rates.... You know weaponeer, you are the kind of person who should pay for health care, if you have that kind of money. What exactly is the medium income in North Bay? I'm sure he'd love to, but that's the whole point. Under the canadian system he can't. Oh but he already does, read his posts, he goes back to the US for his healthcare. Thats what he should be doing. Quote
Drea Posted July 2, 2007 Report Posted July 2, 2007 Yes, if my 16 old son seriously hurt someone while being stupid he should pay, and be saddled with a debt. The person he hurt may be saddled with no legs!! There are consequences for our actions. What if he is the one who ends up with no legs? How is he ever going to pay off his medical debt? What will he do for a living? He is only 16, not been to university yet or learned a trade... where will the money come from? Do you expect that he (legless) will get a student loan (who would loan money to someone in debt to the tune of $250,000?) and go on to university, earn a degree and get out making big bucks. Poor kid would probably end up committing suicide and you would be to blame. One mistake. You are a nasty father -- your kid makes one mistake and not only does he have no legs but he will never be debt free again. There will be ongoing treatment which will only add to his debt. Quote ...jealous much? Booga Booga! Hee Hee Hee
Drea Posted July 2, 2007 Report Posted July 2, 2007 Oh but he already does, read his posts, he goes back to the US for his healthcare. Thats what he should be doing. And that is fine for him. If he can afford it all the power to him. But that should not take away from the rights of others who cannot afford to travel to the US for treatment. he'd go to the US for a pimple extraction, but wouldn't help his son who wrecked his car... sheesh. Quote ...jealous much? Booga Booga! Hee Hee Hee
margrace Posted July 2, 2007 Report Posted July 2, 2007 Oh but he already does, read his posts, he goes back to the US for his healthcare. Thats what he should be doing. And that is fine for him. If he can afford it all the power to him. But that should not take away from the rights of others who cannot afford to travel to the US for treatment. he'd go to the US for a pimple extraction, but wouldn't help his son who wrecked his car... sheesh. No Drea I don't see why that would affect our health care. He should go and he should pay if he so desires but he has no right to denegate our great health care system. His critism of treatment in North Bay makes it pretty clear what he wants. I have been there and done that, it is wonderful care. Quote
margrace Posted July 2, 2007 Report Posted July 2, 2007 Oh but he already does, read his posts, he goes back to the US for his healthcare. Thats what he should be doing. And that is fine for him. If he can afford it all the power to him. But that should not take away from the rights of others who cannot afford to travel to the US for treatment. he'd go to the US for a pimple extraction, but wouldn't help his son who wrecked his car... sheesh. No Drea I don't see why that would affect our health care. He should go and he should pay if he so desires but he has no right to denegate our great health care system. His critism of treatment in North Bay makes it pretty clear what he wants. I have been there and done that, it is wonderful care. Quote
ScottSA Posted July 2, 2007 Report Posted July 2, 2007 They can purcahse group health plans, combine home auto and health insurance into a packages. I've never heard of a comparision of auto and home insurance between the US and Canada,is there a big difference in those two? My point was about private health insurance. Where I lived in Oklahoma you could purcahse your auto, home and health insurance from the same company and get reduced rates.... You know weaponeer, you are the kind of person who should pay for health care, if you have that kind of money. What exactly is the medium income in North Bay? I'm sure he'd love to, but that's the whole point. Under the canadian system he can't. Oh but he already does, read his posts, he goes back to the US for his healthcare. Thats what he should be doing. So you're in favor of a two-tier healthcare system then? How logical of you. How conservative of you. Why, that's downright Reform Partyish of you! Quote
Drea Posted July 2, 2007 Report Posted July 2, 2007 No its not. If you PERSONALLY can afford to travel to the US for treatment good on you. But those who cannot afford to do so will get their treatment here -- paid by taxes and insurance premiums. No one is saying you cannot go and get treatment. At the same time you cannot deny treatment to those who cannot afford it. This is not a two tiered system. This is one person deciding to pay for treatment in a foreign country. Quote ...jealous much? Booga Booga! Hee Hee Hee
Canuck E Stan Posted July 2, 2007 Report Posted July 2, 2007 No its not.If you PERSONALLY can afford to travel to the US for treatment good on you. But those who cannot afford to do so will get their treatment here -- paid by taxes and insurance premiums. No one is saying you cannot go and get treatment. At the same time you cannot deny treatment to those who cannot afford it. This is not a two tiered system. This is one person deciding to pay for treatment in a foreign country. Why are you denying me this option of getting treatment close to my family and my home? Quote "Any man under 30 who is not a liberal has no heart, and any man over 30 who is not a conservative has no brains." — Winston Churchill
Drea Posted July 2, 2007 Report Posted July 2, 2007 Silly! Treatment is not denied close to home -- it's paid for by taxes and premiums. IF you want to go to the states no one is stopping you. Don't you get it at all? The treatment here is COVERED by medical... you are not being denied treatment. If you have money you want to burn on a pimple extraction -- you can a.) go to the states and pay or b.) get it done here and save your money. Nothing denied. I bet the hospital would love a cash donation though. So if you really want to spend that money they would be happy to accept it -- and you would get a tax reciept! Quote ...jealous much? Booga Booga! Hee Hee Hee
ScottSA Posted July 2, 2007 Report Posted July 2, 2007 Silly!Treatment is not denied close to home -- it's paid for by taxes and premiums. IF you want to go to the states no one is stopping you. Don't you get it at all? The treatment here is COVERED by medical... you are not being denied treatment. If you have money you want to burn on a pimple extraction -- you can a.) go to the states and pay or b.) get it done here and save your money. Nothing denied. So a two tier system is ok if we don't call it a two tier system then? It's good for rich folks to get paid for care, as long as it's not here? What ridiculous logic! Quote
Canuck E Stan Posted July 2, 2007 Report Posted July 2, 2007 Silly!Treatment is not denied close to home -- it's paid for by taxes and premiums. IF you want to go to the states no one is stopping you. Don't you get it at all? The treatment here is COVERED by medical... you are not being denied treatment. If you have money you want to burn on a pimple extraction -- you can a.) go to the states and pay or b.) get it done here and save your money. Nothing denied. You are denying me the right to be close to my home and with my family during these agonizing times. You are denying me the right to dispense with my pain. Or to not have to wait for a surgery that will take two years before it happens. Thanks for nothing. Quote "Any man under 30 who is not a liberal has no heart, and any man over 30 who is not a conservative has no brains." — Winston Churchill
Drea Posted July 2, 2007 Report Posted July 2, 2007 A two tier system in CANADA would involve paying CANADIAN health providers. Get it yet? Do you think our govt should stop people from going to the states for treatment? I don't. I would not deny you the choice to leave the country for treatment if you so choose. BUT if you CANNOT leave the country for treatment I would NOT deny you full service (paid by taxes and premiums) here at home. It is NOT a two tier system when it involves going to a foreign country for treatment. Do you get it yet? I am getting tired of trying to explain the difference between PAYING in CANADA and PAYING in the states. oy yoy yoy.... Quote ...jealous much? Booga Booga! Hee Hee Hee
Canuck E Stan Posted July 2, 2007 Report Posted July 2, 2007 A two tier system in CANADA would involve paying CANADIAN health providers. Get it yet?Do you think our govt should stop people from going to the states for treatment? I don't. I would not deny you the choice to leave the country for treatment if you so choose. BUT if you CANNOT leave the country for treatment I would NOT deny you full service (paid by taxes and premiums) here at home. It is NOT a two tier system when it involves going to a foreign country for treatment. Do you get it yet? I am getting tired of trying to explain the difference between PAYING in CANADA and PAYING in the states. oy yoy yoy.... I suggest you get your head out of the sand and stop this two tier,venturing to the states crap. Take a look at some of the health care systems that are better than ours, and find out why and how they are better.Are you afraid of "better"? 'best in world' Quote "Any man under 30 who is not a liberal has no heart, and any man over 30 who is not a conservative has no brains." — Winston Churchill
Drea Posted July 2, 2007 Report Posted July 2, 2007 Open your eyes and READ! Did I say anywhere in ANY of my posts that we have the best system? No. I said that paying the states for treatment is NOT the same as having a two tier system in Canada. And no I do not want a two tier system. I want user fees. Friend was in emergency the other night... musta been 40 people ahead of him (daughter, bad earache). Maybe 20% of them had real emergencies. The rest were there sucking up time from the er staff for no reason. If they go to emerg for no reason they should be billed for it. How's that for two tier? LOL Quote ...jealous much? Booga Booga! Hee Hee Hee
Canuck E Stan Posted July 2, 2007 Report Posted July 2, 2007 Silly! Treatment is not denied close to home -- it's paid for by taxes and premiums. IF you want to go to the states no one is stopping you. Don't you get it at all? The treatment here is COVERED by medical... you are not being denied treatment. If you have money you want to burn on a pimple extraction -- you can a.) go to the states and pay or b.) get it done here and save your money. Nothing denied. So a two tier system is ok if we don't call it a two tier system then? It's good for rich folks to get paid for care, as long as it's not here? What ridiculous logic! Agreed. Quote "Any man under 30 who is not a liberal has no heart, and any man over 30 who is not a conservative has no brains." — Winston Churchill
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