The Tender, Gentle, Loving Side of Islam

[jbg]

Islam has a decidedly tender, loving and educationally oriented side. It's inspiring as well as beautiful. Too bad so many red-necked bigots don't appreciate it. See below.

From today's New York Times (link):

BAGHDAD, June 19 — A suicide bomber barreled a truck filled with cooking gas and explosives into a square bordered by a large Shiite mosque in the heart of Baghdad on Tuesday, just as worshipers were finishing midday prayers. The Interior Ministry said at least 61 people were killed and 130 wounded.

****

“It was like an electrocution,” said Najim Abdul Wahid, 45, a carpenter who was working in the square at the time. “I saw a flash. When I was able to stand up again, I saw many charred bodies in the streets. People were screaming, calling for help. I saw many people burning inside their cars. Charred bodies mixed and melted with charred cars.”

From June 15, 2007 New York Times (link):

JERUSALEM, June 14 — The Palestinian territories seemed headed Thursday to a turbulent political divide. Masked Hamas gunmen took control of the Gaza Strip and the Fatah president dissolved the 3-month-old unity government, declaring a state of emergency and plans for elections.

[Peter F]

Islam has a decidedly tender, loving and educationally oriented side. It's inspiring as well as beautiful. Too bad so many red-necked bigots don't appreciate it. See below.

From today's New York Times (link):

BAGHDAD, June 19 — A suicide bomber barreled a truck filled with cooking gas and explosives into a square bordered by a large Shiite mosque in the heart of Baghdad on Tuesday, just as worshipers were finishing midday prayers. The Interior Ministry said at least 61 people were killed and 130 wounded.

****

“It was like an electrocution,” said Najim Abdul Wahid, 45, a carpenter who was working in the square at the time. “I saw a flash. When I was able to stand up again, I saw many charred bodies in the streets. People were screaming, calling for help. I saw many people burning inside their cars. Charred bodies mixed and melted with charred cars.”

From June 15, 2007 New York Times (link):

JERUSALEM, June 14 — The Palestinian territories seemed headed Thursday to a turbulent political divide. Masked Hamas gunmen took control of the Gaza Strip and the Fatah president dissolved the 3-month-old unity government, declaring a state of emergency and plans for elections.

and what do these two storys have to do with the religion of Islam? Not quite clear what you're trying to say.

[scribblet]

and what do these two storys have to do with the religion of Islam? Not quite clear what you're trying to say.

It is not necessarily about religion, Islam is a way of life, religion, politics and actions are all part and parcel, as dicussed in the other thread, you can't separate the religion from the acts as they profess to committ these atrocities in the name of religion or Allah.

[Drea]

Does this mean that all murders, rapes, thefts, etc committed in the United States or Canada are perpetrated in the name of Jesus?

Because of the religious idiots (apology from a different thread now withdrawn -- the gloves are OFF!) on both sides there will be a gunking world war. Because of a gunking FANTASY.

*bad gunky* from Lise Story by Stephen King

[Rue]

"and what do these two storys have to do with the religion of Islam? Not quite clear what you're trying to say."

To ask the above question is no different then Drea engaging in the pretense of being politically appropriate-it belittles.

What does it have to do with it? It has to do with an on-going battle between sects of Muslims that is what. It has to do with people who claim to be Muslim killing other Muslims.

Or should we pretend it has nothing to do with Islam at all. Let's pretend there are no people who claim to be Muslim killing fellow Muslims or engaging in terror around the world. Let's pretend there are no Muslim clerics calling for suicide bombings and terror. Let's pretend Hezbollah are not doing what they do because they think they are good Muslims. Let us pretend there are no Muslim clerics at all calling for violence.

Let's pretend because.

If someone kills and claims they do it on behalf of God, and quote a religion, we have a right to suggest they are misappropriating the religion as JBG did or are you so selective and politically appropriate we can't do that...yah let us just pretend everything going on in the Middle East has nothing to do with Islam. Nothing at all. Its simply coincidental so many of these terrorists claim to be Muslim.

Its coincidental Muslim clerics are also members of Hamas and Hezbollah.

Drea if someone killed in the name of Jesus do you believce we should omit that from the story for fear we will offend Christians? Give it a rest with the righteousness.

[jdobbin]

"and what do these two storys have to do with the religion of Islam? Not quite clear what you're trying to say."

To ask the above question is no different then Drea engaging in the pretense of being politically appropriate-it belittles.

What does it have to do with it? It has to do with an on-going battle between sects of Muslims that is what. It has to do with people who claim to be Muslim killing other Muslims.

The article, like many the poster writes, tries to paint all Muslims as being violent. He then tries to deny it in a cutesy manner.

It would be better if he just admit the hatred he has of that religion as a whole and be done with it.

[scribblet]

Does this mean that all murders, rapes, thefts, etc committed in the United States or Canada are perpetrated in the name of Jesus?

Because of the religious idiots (apology from a different thread now withdrawn -- the gloves are OFF!) on both sides there will be a gunking world war. Because of a gunking FANTASY.

Of course it doesn’t, nowhere did anyone suggest that. I don’t consider this to be a boxing match just debate; we are not in a ring to promote violence.

We are talking about violent extremism in the name of Islam which is a daily occurrence, or at the very least done by Muslims in pursuit of what they consider Islamic causes. We are not talking about shoplifting for instance, which is not usually done in the name of any religious deity. As pointed out in the other thread, Islam is not just a religion it is also political, under an Islamic state, Sharia is the religious law, a way of life this is not fantasy this is fact.

Not only is there a class of civilizations between the west and east (so to speak) but the same type of clash between the moderate or peaceful Muslims and the radical violent muslims who yell “Allahu Akhbar” as they kill. Don’t forget the radicals who called for a holy war against Israel and Denmark because of the cartoons - and that wasn't in the name of religion then what is a holy war.

Hezbollah is the ‘party of God’ Hamas is the 'Islamic Resistance Movement'.

Winston Churchill on Islam:

Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyzes the social development of those who follow it.

Al-Qaeda statement, April 24, 2002

By means of this document we send a message to America and those behind it. We are coming, by the will of God almighty, no matter what America does. It will never be safe from the fury of Muslims. America is the one who began the war, and it will lose the battle by the permission of God almighty.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/9/18/93724.shtml

Al-Qaida in Iraq and its allies said Muslims would be victorious and addressed the pope as "the worshipper of the cross," saying "you and the West are doomed as you can see from the defeat in Iraq, Afghanistan, Chechnya and elsewhere. … We will break up the cross, spill the liquor and impose the ‘jizya’ tax, then the only thing acceptable is a conversion (to Islam) or (being killed by) the sword."

[jbg]

The article, like many the poster writes, tries to paint all Muslims as being violent. He then tries to deny it in a cutesy manner. It would be better if he just admit the hatred he has of that religion as a whole and be done with it.

I was praising the fierce loyalty to sect and tribe that Muslims have. I was also praising the fulfillment of the deep duty of revenge for wrongs. Just because a wrong is centuries old does not mean is should be avenged.

To the contrary, some cultures value building and "liberal education" over the ancient and worthy values of sect, tribe and revenge. Those are false values of people not true to their primal inner being.

[jbg]

From today's New York Times (link):

BAGHDAD, June 19 — A suicide bomber barreled a truck filled with cooking gas and explosives into a square bordered by a large Shiite mosque in the heart of Baghdad on Tuesday, just as worshipers were finishing midday prayers. The Interior Ministry said at least 61 people were killed and 130 wounded.

With the people occupied day in, day out, with prayer, and disputing the method by which others pray, how does any productive work get done?

[jdobbin]

I was praising the fierce loyalty to sect and tribe that Muslims have. I was also praising the fulfillment of the deep duty of revenge for wrongs. Just because a wrong is centuries old does not mean is should be avenged.

To the contrary, some cultures value building and "liberal education" over the ancient and worthy values of sect, tribe and revenge. Those are false values of people not true to their primal inner being.

Seems to me that there are many types of Muslims as there are Christians and Jews.

But go on and paint them as homogeneous.

[jbg]

Seems to me that there are many types of Muslims as there are Christians and Jews.

But go on and paint them as homogeneous.

On a non-facetious note, I'd love nothing more than to create a grand alliance between Muslim money and Jewish know-how. If there were only a critical mass of peaceful, forward-looking Muslims to partner with it would be great.

The trouble is that the only (barely) secular Islamic country is Turkey, and only because of the drubbing the Ottoman Empire took in WW I. The Muslims that are among the "many types", and presumably peaceful, are also distressingly silent.

[jdobbin]

On a non-facetious note, I'd love nothing more than to create a grand alliance between Muslim money and Jewish know-how. If there were only a critical mass of peaceful, forward-looking Muslims to partner with it would be great.

The trouble is that the only (barely) secular Islamic country is Turkey, and only because of the drubbing the Ottoman Empire took in WW I. The Muslims that are among the "many types", and presumably peaceful, are also distressingly silent.

The disdain you have even for Turkey is palpable.

Why do you support the mission in Afghanistan and Iraq if it only is for ungrateful Muslims that you'd rather see removed from the planet?

[Peter F]

"and what do these two storys have to do with the religion of Islam? Not quite clear what you're trying to say."

To ask the above question is no different then Drea engaging in the pretense of being politically appropriate-it belittles.

What does it have to do with it? It has to do with an on-going battle between sects of Muslims that is what. It has to do with people who claim to be Muslim killing other Muslims.

Or should we pretend it has nothing to do with Islam at all. Let's pretend there are no people who claim to be Muslim killing fellow Muslims or engaging in terror around the world. Let's pretend there are no Muslim clerics calling for suicide bombings and terror. Let's pretend Hezbollah are not doing what they do because they think they are good Muslims. Let us pretend there are no Muslim clerics at all calling for violence.

Let's pretend because.

If someone kills and claims they do it on behalf of God, and quote a religion, we have a right to suggest they are misappropriating the religion as JBG did or are you so selective and politically appropriate we can't do that...yah let us just pretend everything going on in the Middle East has nothing to do with Islam. Nothing at all. Its simply coincidental so many of these terrorists claim to be Muslim.

Its coincidental Muslim clerics are also members of Hamas and Hezbollah.

Drea if someone killed in the name of Jesus do you believce we should omit that from the story for fear we will offend Christians? Give it a rest with the righteousness.

I see. I have no problem with anyone pointing out mans inhumanity towards man. However, jbg claims that the two NYTimes articles are examples of Islams good side.

But, jbg's thread title "the Tender Gentle and loving side of Islam" followed by storys of Muslims killing Muslims indicates that jbg considers the murderous behaviour of a few bad muslim apples to be the best that Islam can do.

That is bullshit. jbg was engaging in bullslhit and lies to equate the best of Islam with murder and mayhem.

[jbg]

The disdain you have even for Turkey is palpable.

Ever see the French Connection? I haven't but heard about it. The brutality of the country is certainly less than hard-core Islamic countries, but still quite awful> I also question how complete the transformation was into being a secular democracy, in light of the need for the military's role in preventing re-Islamicization. I had been hoping for better but have been, frankly, disappointed.

Why do you support the mission in Afghanistan and Iraq if it only is for ungrateful Muslims that you'd rather see removed from the planet?

I don't want them off the planet. I never said that. I want them to either

1. Join the civilized world;
   
2. Leave the West alone, and fight their medieval battles among themselves.
   

If the latter, all that they can ask from the West is that we pay for resource extraction, nothing more. No UN aid, etc.

[jbg]

But, jbg's thread title "the Tender Gentle and loving side of Islam" followed by storys of Muslims killing Muslims indicates that jbg considers the murderous behaviour of a few bad muslim apples to be the best that Islam can do.

That is bullshit. jbg was engaging in bullslhit and lies to equate the best of Islam with murder and mayhem.

Read my actual post and you'll see I was praising their loyalty and devotion to tribe and kin:

I was praising the fierce loyalty to sect and tribe that Muslims have. I was also praising the fulfillment of the deep duty of revenge for wrongs. Just because a wrong is centuries old does not mean is should be avenged.

To the contrary, some cultures value building and "liberal education" over the ancient and worthy values of sect, tribe and revenge. Those are false values of people not true to their primal inner being.

[jdobbin]

Ever see the French Connection? I haven't but heard about it. The brutality of the country is certainly less than hard-core Islamic countries, but still quite awful> I also question how complete the transformation was into being a secular democracy, in light of the need for the military's role in preventing re-Islamicization. I had been hoping for better but have been, frankly, disappointed.

[*]Join the civilized world;

[*]Leave the West alone, and fight their medieval battles among themselves.

If the latter, all that they can ask from the West is that we pay for resource extraction, nothing more. No UN aid, etc.

Actually, you never did say that. You spend most of your denigrating the religion.

And if you really thought Islamic countries should be left to Islamic countries, you would not have supported the Iraq war. Either war for that matter.

1% of the American population that is religious is Muslim. By all accounts, you include all of them in your smear. I wouldn't be surprised if you think they are "uncivilized" either.

[jbg]

Actually, you never did say that. You spend most of your denigrating the religion.

Actually, I write many quite positive posts on other subjects that receive no response whatsoever. or responses only after a "bump", including a lengthy Father's Day post that took some work (link).

And if you really thought Islamic countries should be left to Islamic countries, you would not have supported the Iraq war. Either war for that matter.

One of my options was that they join the civilized world. Also, a country repeatedly threatening the civilized world, even rhetorically, opens itself up to that result.

1% of the American population that is religious is Muslim. By all accounts, you include all of them in your smear. I wouldn't be surprised if you think they are "uncivilized" either.

Some are, most obviously aren't. Our "melting pot" or assimilation pressures reduce this problem. But see what life in Britain looks like. Trust me, you wouldn't want to ride the subway with someone looking like this (link).

[jdobbin]

Actually, I write many quite positive posts on other subjects that receive no response whatsoever. or responses only after a "bump",

One of my options was that they join the civilized world. Also, a country repeatedly threatening the civilized world, even rhetorically, opens itself up to that result.

Some are, most obviously aren't. Our "melting pot" or assimilation pressures reduce this problem. But see what life in Britain looks like. Trust me,

I think I will just leave it that your comments are bigotry.

[Peter F]

[Read my actual post and you'll see I was praising their loyalty and devotion to tribe and kin:

and that is all bullshit.

Your original post said :

Islam has a decidedly tender, loving and educationally oriented side. It's inspiring as well as beautiful. Too bad so many red-necked bigots don't appreciate it. See below.

followed by links to NYtimes stories

Not a peep about fierce loyalty to sect or tribe.