New Atlantic Deal More Than Fair

[Michael Bluth]

I'm not surprised at the Toronto media's reaction to the Accords, etc.

It certainly hasn't translated into popular support for the Tories in Ontario though given the last Decima poll.

Hmmm, given the issue broke this week it makes sense that a poll released today wouldn't factor in people's feelings about the issue.

Is that a blatant attempt to smear the Government?

Defintely not fostering debate at all.

I suggest you try www.rabble.ca

[Who's Doing What?]

Defintely not fostering debate at all.

I suggest you try www.rabble.ca

Defintely not fostering debate at all.

[jdobbin]

Defintely not fostering debate at all.

I suggest you try www.rabble.ca

Defintely not fostering debate at all.

That is quite funny coming from the stalker of boards.

[Michael Bluth]

That is quite funny coming from the stalker of boards.

Why not deal with this part of my post instead of making another false accusation?

Hmmm, given the issue broke this week it makes sense that a poll released today wouldn't factor in people's feelings about the issue.

Is that a blatant attempt to smear the Government?

But then again you'd have to want actual debate here.

If you just want to smear the Government why not try www.rabble.ca

[jbg]

Ah, children. Can't us screen names stick to the issues. I have no idea what "jdobbin" or "michael bluth" are like in the real world, or as TV characters. I'm not sure I'd want to know. Too much information.

[jdobbin]

Ah, children. Can't us screen names stick to the issues. I have no idea what "jdobbin" or "michael bluth" are like in the real world, or as TV characters. I'm not sure I'd want to know. Too much information.

Since you often don't stick to issues, I can't imagine what you mean.

[jbg]

Ah, children. Can't us screen names stick to the issues. I have no idea what "jdobbin" or "michael bluth" are like in the real world, or as TV characters. I'm not sure I'd want to know. Too much information.

Since you often don't stick to issues, I can't imagine what you mean.

I'm not perfect but I'm better than average. At least most of my posts don't downright repel outsiders. This nah-nah-boo-boo posting does, on both sides.

If someone's interested in whether the "New Atlantic Deal (is) More Than Fair" do you think they really want to know whether the owner of this or that screen name is a stalker?

[jdobbin]

I'm not perfect but I'm better than average. At least most of my posts don't downright repel outsiders. This nah-nah-boo-boo posting does, on both sides.

If someone's interested in whether the "New Atlantic Deal (is) More Than Fair" do you think they really want to know whether the owner of this or that screen name is a stalker?

And I suppose a backhanded comment you made just a few days about a poster's intelligence on June 11 or so was somehow overlooked. I found that to be a bit repelling. It's what turns people away from posting on these boards. Also, trying to associate the left with Paul Bernardo is beyond the pale. You'll have to show me how anyone on the left has appealed for a light sentence for the man. I found it to be trolling behavior with no substance whatsoever. It was yellow posting that is right there among the worst of what we see on the board.

So please don't get higher an mightier on this board about people swearing or people reacting to the another's post and say that your children are possible readers over the shoulder. I'm sure they don't want to see that you are accusing people of people linked to a childkiller like Paul Bernardo.

Likewise, your hatred of anything Islam comes out of almost every post you make. It is quite uncomfortable to hear such generalizations about a religion on a regular basis.

I posted an actual link from a study released today on the Atlantic deal. Thus far I have read no comment on it although now even Flaherty was saying both yesterday and today that he is trying to address MacDonald's concerns.

[geoffrey]

We have private messages here, please use them. No one else cares about your trival personal conflicts.

--

Dobbin, if you found the actual study, instead of some sound bites, I'd like to take a look. Interestingly, keeping the Atlantic Accord is an option on the table for the provinces so I'm unsure how it could cost them anything over keeping the Atlantic Accord... which they could keep... oh ya.

Hmm. Going to have to think about this one.

I have the option to keep my deal, or pick a higher paying one, but if I pick the higher paying one, I get more money and I can bash Harper to get elected... Hmmm.

I think people are ignoring that they could keep the deal.

What the heck is going on.

[Michael Bluth]

We have private messages here, please use them. No one else cares about your trival personal conflicts.

I'm more than willing to go that route.

However, the poster accusing me of stalking refuses to do so.

How do you recommend I proceed?

[jdobbin]

Dobbin, if you found the actual study, instead of some sound bites, I'd like to take a look. Interestingly, keeping the Atlantic Accord is an option on the table for the provinces so I'm unsure how it could cost them anything over keeping the Atlantic Accord... which they could keep... oh ya.

Hmm. Going to have to think about this one.

I have the option to keep my deal, or pick a higher paying one, but if I pick the higher paying one, I get more money and I can bash Harper to get elected... Hmmm.

I think people are ignoring that they could keep the deal.

What the heck is going on.

Atlantic Provinces Economic Council is the think tank released their analysis today.

http://www.apec-econ.ca/whatsnew.asp?ID=25

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national...d604c7e&k=76457

newly released study says Ottawa's revised equalization formula could cost the Atlantic provinces a total of $4 billion in payments over the next 13 years.

The analysis by the Atlantic Provinces Economic Council, a Halifax-based think tank, concludes that Nova Scotia, New Brunswick and Prince Edward Island will receive additional money early on, but in the long term will be worse off.

The study says Nova Scotia will be out $1.4 billion by the 2019-2020 fiscal year, New Brunswick will lose $1 billion and P.E.I. will have $196 million less than if Ottawa left the equalization program alone.

Newfoundland will immediately see less money, losing $654 million in the first two years and $1.4 billion overall.

The report comes a day after Parliament voted to adopt the budget, which Nova Scotia and Newfoundland have condemned for forcing them to choose either a richer equalization formula or a two-year-old deal that lets them keep their offshore oil and gas revenues.

The study's authors say both provinces would clearly be better off sticking with the status quo and their 2005 Atlantic Accords, but add that the federal budget violates the letter and the spirit of those deals.

Read it and see what you think for an accountant's viewpoint.

[jbg]

And I suppose a backhanded comment you made just a few days about a poster's intelligence on June 11 or so was somehow overlooked. I found that to be a bit repelling. It's what turns people away from posting on these boards.

Not sure I remember it, or what it's provocation was. I'm not saying I'm perfect but I do try. PM me the link to that offending post, since an apology may be in order. I and not anyone else will decide if that apology should be private or public.

Also, trying to associate the left with Paul Bernardo is beyond the pale. You'll have to show me how anyone on the left has appealed for a light sentence for the man. I found it to be trolling behavior with no substance whatsoever. It was yellow posting that is right there among the worst of what we see on the board.

My actual post was:

The left always employs a double standard. They want Paul Bernardo treated compassionately, but not som e innocent traveler whose head is sawed off for apostacy.

Are you going to tell me that any significant leftist constituency would support a true life term (i.e. not one where he's out in 24 years), consecutive sentences, or the death penalty for him? Would any significant leftist constituency support placing him, unguarded, in the general prison population? My post wasn't that far out of range.

So please don't get higher an mightier on this board about people swearing or people reacting to the another's post and say that your children are possible readers over the shoulder.

Aren't both sides of the "stalking" allegations doing just that?

Likewise, your hatred of anything Islam comes out of almost every post you make. It is quite uncomfortable to hear such generalizations about a religion on a regular basis.

I wish the daily news feed from Muslim parts of the world didn't include stories like this (excerpted below, link to full article):

Hamas seizing control of Gaza Strip By SARAH EL DEEB, Associated Press Writer

Wed Jun 13, 7:02 PM ET

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip - Hamas fighters launched a fierce offensive on Gaza City Wednesday, firing mortars and rockets at Fatah's main security bases and the president's compound as the Islamic group appeared close to taking control of the entire Gaza Strip. Fatah's forces were crumbling fast, with some fighters seen fleeing their security posts and hundreds of others surrendering, hands raised, to masked Hamas gunmen.

Frankly, I wish there could be a productive combination of Jewish business savvy and technical knowledge and Arab wealth. I'm daily saddened that a once productive relationship has degenerated into daily bloodshed.

I posted an actual link from a study released today on the Atlantic deal. Thus far I have read no comment on it although now even Flaherty was saying both yesterday and today that he is trying to address MacDonald's concerns.

At last, back to Atlantic Canada.

[geoffrey]

They are based on resource projections. Dangerous. Do you knwo the price of oil and gas 5 years from now? How about in 2020? Danny Williams has made it very clear that he won't develop oil until the rest of Canada stops funding his kingdom anyways.

Beyond that, it still mains that all provinces can keep the current Atlantic Accord. Any losses would be because they don't accept the new measures.

Bottom line. If the Atlantic Accord is better, then use that framework and get on with it. The option is out there.

[jbg]

Bottom line. If the Atlantic Accord is better, then use that framework and get on with it. The option is out there.

To paraphrase Mulroney in his 1984 debate with Turner "Provinces, you have the option".

[hiti]

Don't matter. Steve LIED!!! On paper yet.

[geoffrey]

Don't matter. Steve LIED!!! On paper yet.

How did he lie? The Atlantic Accord is still an option. It's not been a broken promise if they can still choose it.

[hiti]

Don't matter. Steve LIED!!! On paper yet.

How did he lie? The Atlantic Accord is still an option. It's not been a broken promise if they can still choose it.

Harper sign an agreement and then broke the agreement...... he lied.

As for what you call choice, ask Bill Casey. It's not there.

[Michael Bluth]

Harper sign an agreement and then broke the agreement...... he lied.

As for what you call choice, ask Bill Casey. It's not there.

As for what you call comprehension, ask Bill Casey. It's not there.

[Keepitsimple]

Stepping back from the technicality of the Accord......

Is it too much to ask of the Atlantic provinces that once they become "have" provinces, that they share their Oil & Gas revenues with the rest of Canada on a 50/50 basis? After all, the rest of Canada has shared our revenues with them via equalization since they entered Confederation - and now all provinces are being asked to play by the same set of rules. Or is their attitude "thanks for supporting us all these years but if you really think we are going to put money back into the pot, you're crazy - it's our money and we're keeping it".

The crazy part of this whole thing is that if Kyoto actually works, there will be less and less demand for oil so existing reserves will satisfy the market and there will be no need for new sources. As a matter of fact, there will be a dis-incentive to drill for oil because if there is too much oil, the price will go down. So Danny Williams may in fact be stuck with offshore resources that nobody wants. Recent analyses that shows how the Atlantic provinces will "lose" money are based on predictions of how much Oil & Gas will come to market years down the road. As Flaherty said, trying to predict the demand and price for oil 10, 15, 20 years down the road is a mug's game.

[BornAlbertan]

"Meanwhile, a study released Wednesday predicted Ottawa's new equalization formula could cost the Atlantic provinces $4 billion in payments over the next 13 years."

BOOHOO.

It won't COST them anything. It just means they don't get HANDED as much.

Alberta and Ontario are another story. It COSTS them over $12billion a year EACH to just be part of Canada, so excuse me all if I at seem unsympathetic over $4billion not being handed out to 4 provinces over the next 13 years

[Argus]

Let's go the other way then. How prosperous do you think Ontario would be if it were split into chunks which separated its major industries and then placed bureacritic red tape in between them due to variants in legislation?

Well, if it were Southern Ontario , then we would be richer than hell . Richer than Alberta too.

In point of fact, Southern Ontario has extremely high social welfare costs and needs to draw money from the other parts of Ontario. Western, Eastern and Northern Ontario would all be far, far better off economically if we could ditch Southern Ontario.

[Argus]

I'm not surprised at the Toronto media's reaction to the Accords, etc.

It certainly hasn't translated into popular support for the Tories in Ontario though given the last Decima poll.

Here is what the latest study says the deal will cost the Maritimes.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

Meanwhile, a study released Wednesday predicted Ottawa's new equalization formula could cost the Atlantic provinces $4 billion in payments over the next 13 years.

The Atlantic Provinces Economic Council, a Halifax-based think tank, concluded that Nova Scotia, New Brunswick and Prince Edward Island will receive additional money early on, but will lose out in the long run.

Nova Scotia, according to the study, will miss out on $1.4 billion by the 2019-2020 fiscal year. New Brunswick will lose $1 billion and P.E.I. will come out with $196 million less than if Ottawa left the program as is.

Newfoundland will lose $654 in the first two years and $1.4 billion overall, the study projects.

The authors of the study say Newfoundland and Nova Scotia would be better off remaining under the current formula and the 2005 Atlantic Accords -- but they go on to say that the budget goes against those earlier agreements.

Then they're perfectly free to continue to operate under the current formula.

[nbguyca]

I'm not surprised at the Toronto media's reaction to the Accords, etc.

It certainly hasn't translated into popular support for the Tories in Ontario though given the last Decima poll.

Hmmm, given the issue broke this week it makes sense that a poll released today wouldn't factor in people's feelings about the issue.

Is that a blatant attempt to smear the Government?

Defintely not fostering debate at all.

I suggest you try www.rabble.ca

Why is it ok to quote all the reports out of Ontario based media but when a non-partisan think0tank based in Atlantic states a position on th issue, it is a blatant attempt to smear the government?

[jbg]

In point of fact, Southern Ontario has extremely high social welfare costs and needs to draw money from the other parts of Ontario. Western, Eastern and Northern Ontario would all be far, far better off economically if we could ditch Southern Ontario.

Point of information. Do you consider Toronto to be "Southern Ontario"? And where do you consider such paradises as Moosonee to be?

[jdobbin]

Then they're perfectly free to continue to operate under the current formula.

And as the authors of the study said, the budget goes against the principle of those agreements.