Charges dropped against Khadr in Guantanamo

[DogOnPorch]

How can he be held until hostilities cease?

I agree it is one of those things...

Oh well...when your Dad is (was) a big-shot al-Qaeda man I suppose your upbringing is a little different than the rest of the kids.

Bobby has a GI Joe...l'il Omar has a real AK-47.

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...and the fluffy kitten played with that ball of string all through the night. On a lighter note, a Kwik-E-Mart clerk was brutally murdered last night.

---Kent Brockman: The Simpsons

Edited November 9, 2007 by DogOnPorch

[trex]

Bobby has a GI Joe...l'il Omar has a real AK-47.

Although it doesn't help much if it appears that laws are being invented ad-hoc, or arbiutrary, inconsistent. Or decisions made where no law applies... subjectively,, imperically, by people who are not beyond being influenced by other parties... politicians. Who gave them the power of life and death. Thats why there is law, so they do not have absolute rule.

[Fortunata]

Justice? War? Terrorism? Seriously...do you think civilization's laws are for those that set themselves apart from civilization? No matter what we may think, our country is at war. He picked the wrong side and will pay for his error one way or another. He was lucky they didn't let him bleed to death. The rest of his miserable life is gravy, now.

Just because Canada is a whore who spreads her legs for anyone and everyone doesn't mean I have to entertain her clients. That's perhaps more your duty.

Pretty stupid reply.

Justice should be justice. Or is it ok to take anyone out anywhere if they are accused of a crime and just shoot them because they were "thought" to have done something wrong. Take the name Khadr out of the equation; put in ... hey, your hero Mulroney ... he's been accused by individuals of taking money. Do we shoot him because some people think he did? Or should we wait until there is a fair and equal hearing into it?

Some of you remind me of exactly the kind of people we are fighting a war against in Afghanistan. Same mentality, same tactics.

[AngusThermopyle]

Some of you remind me of exactly the kind of people we are fighting a war against in Afghanistan. Same mentality, same tactics.

If by same mentality you mean that in war you have to learn to think like your enemy in some respects, then you are right.You cant fight a war by rules of fair play if the other side wont play fair. Hostile combatants usually dont play fair, this guy certainly didn't. He lost the coin toss he took and ended up a prisoner.

Now the result is that a whole sh*t load of people are tripping all over themselves to play super ultra fair with him. To the point of bringing him back to Canada where he will almost certainly walk.

Playing fair would mean not targetting medics, it always has before. Do you know what usually happened to those they caught who had targetted medics? Thats why medics and medical vehicles sport those highly visible white backgrounds with the bright red cross.

By rights this piece of filth should never have lived to see another day. I think the Americans have already played more fair than they had to, they let him live to leave the field of conflict and go to sunny Cuba.

[DogOnPorch]

...hey, your hero Mulroney.

Never voted for that POS. Never will I vote Conservative. Try again.

Pretty stupid reply.

Pretty stupid questions.

Justice should be justice. Or is it ok to take anyone out anywhere if they are accused of a crime and just shoot them because they were "thought" to have done something wrong.

Guess what? Outside of this ivory tower called Canada the world is a cruel f**king place where good people get hurt and killed all the time...every second of the day...365 days a year. "Take him out and shoot him" is the rule more than the exception.

Do we shoot him (Mulroney) because some people think he did? Or should we wait until there is a fair and equal hearing into it?

As lovely as that sounds...in Canada...we have laws for such things. But if I'm caught smuggling hashish out of Turkey, I'd expect a number of years in a harsh Turkish prison (or worse) for my troubles. So should Omar...

No illusions...right?

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Max: The best thing to do is to get your ass out of here. Best way that you can. Billy Hayes: Yeah, but how? Max: Catch the midnight express. Billy Hayes: But what's that? Max: [laughs] Well it's not a train. It's a prison word for... escape. But it doesn't stop around here.

[trex]

Outside of this ivory tower called Canada the world is a cruel f**king place where good people get hurt and killed all the time...every second of the day...365 days a year.

Which is why Harper must be stopped, before we end up doing the same thing right here. Because that seems to be the road the right wingers are taking us on.

Edited November 10, 2007 by trex

[capricorn]

Which is why Harper must be stopped, before we end up doing the same thing right here. Because that seems to be the road the right wingers are taking us on.

Thankfully, not all Liberal supporters are so paranoid.

[trex]

Just more Conservative Death Agenda, as well as imprisonment as pre-emptive measure, ie before crimes are proven to be committed. Even the suspicion of certain crimes will put you in jail for years now. Without trial. Special detention facility being built out in Millhaven, Ontario for security detainees.

http://www.prisonjustice.ca/starkravenarti...north_0406.html

Now affectionaltaley being called "Guantanamo North"

[trex]

Local man held as suspected terrorist could be transferred to facility near Kingston

Suspected terrorist Mohamed Harkat could be moving digs this spring when a new jail for those being held on security certificates opens next door to Millhaven Penitentiary.

Corrections Canada officials confirmed yesterday that construction of a new, self-contained, six-person facility is expected to be completed by the end of March next to the Bath institution, 150 km southwest of Ottawa.

Harkat, who's been held at the Ottawa-Carleton Detention Centre under less-than-ideal conditions since his arrest in December 2002, would be among those transferred there shortly thereafter.

Egyptian detainees Mohammad Mahjoub and Mahmoud Jaballah as well as Syrian Hassan Almrei are among the other men being held under security certificates. They've been living at Toronto's Metro West Detention Centre since their arrests.

"It's a temporary solution to a long-term problem. It doesn't solve the problem of people being detained without charge," Harkat's wife Sophie said yesterday.

Shocked and a little confused by the news, Sophie said she'd only heard rumours about the plan and couldn't weigh in for or against it until she knows what the conditions at the new jail would be like.

"I'm not in agreement with a transfer if his conditions won't be better," she said. "He has to have family contact visits. Somewhat of a normal lifestyle similar to what people have in penitentiaries. He would have to have more freedom than he has right now."

Corrections Canada spokeswoman Michele Pilon-Santilli said the confinement conditions at the facility are being determined by the Canada Border Services Agency, which is responsible for security certificate detainees.

She couldn't say what sort of amenities the inmates would have. Officials at CBSA could not be reached.

http://www.ottawasun.com/News/OttawaAndReg...420554-sun.html

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Who are these people? Why have we not even heard of them? How long have they been in confinement, under what conditions? It sounds like they are not even given the same conditions as normal offenders in prisons.

Edited November 10, 2007 by trex

[capricorn]

That's old news trex. Harkat is under house arrest in Ottawa with his beloved Sophie attending to his every need. Google Harkat and you'll get the the latest on the other alleged terrorists.

[trex]

I fail to see why that makes it any less relevant to the curent discussion, since it involves the detention of people without charges, for several years. SO there are parallels hereand we are doing it to other people too, not just Khadr.

And I bet most Canadians have never even heard of it, it is seemingly old news to you, and me.

These people, and potentially other ones in the future, are at risk of being forgeotten about by a system in which is easy to detain anyone, but not so easy to let them go.

[capricorn]

trex, I sense your genuine concern for persons held without charges and I know many share those concerns.

In your post you asked the following questions:

Who are these people? Why have we not even heard of them? How long have they been in confinement, under what conditions? It sounds like they are not even given the same conditions as normal offenders in prisons.

I pointed out they are no longer confined in prison but under house arrest. That addressed part of your questions. You do want answers to questions you post, don't you?

There was much media coverage on these cases. Canadians were made aware but apparently they are not up in arms about them. Go figure.

[ScottSA]

Now why would any state / government pass such legislation unless they knew damn well that they were unlawfully imprisoning people? I mean, really, if you are only keeping people in Guantanamo in accordance with the rule of law, then why be afraid of those people asking a judge to review the situation?

I'm not a lawyer, and all I know well is intl law; a very different animal than domestic law. However, it seems to me that your question is framed in Sophistry. One would, according to your question's premise, have to define "rule of law" as any relevant body of domestic law that existed prior to the legislation, effectively rendering anything passed afterwards that negates the original, as "outside" the rule of law. In actual fact, one would introduce legislation to bypass the law, but not "rule of law", per se.

In any event, the legislation was introduced to counter a clear and present danger and, given 911, a danger which simply can't wait to be dealt with by staid due process. Since the legislation overrides the law, it seems to me that a judge has no more business reviewing a case under the legislation than does a plumber.

As I said, I'm not a lawyer, so no doubt you can squirm in true lawyerly fashion and befuddle me with Latin polysyllabisms, but am I not right? If not, why not?

[trex]

There was much media coverage on these cases. Canadians were made aware but apparently they are not up in arms about them. Go figure.

My neighbours have all never heard of them. My parents, have never heard of them, nor my wife or her parents, or about 99% of the people at my office, I'll bet. Most don't even know about the new jail in Kingston. Not that the media didn't cover it, but it was snowed over by other stories on the major news coverage, tv news, etc which gives considerable more airtime to stories about Britney, gay politicians and priests, and OJ Simpson.

But you are correct, thats all beside the point of why I asked those questions. Those are general questions, not necessary for you to answer... the point is who else is being held now? We can assume that there will probably be some new ones and will we hear about all who are detained without charges, or will some be secretely detained? National Security is the all-encompassing argument they can make, and it is un-checked by any non-partisan observer. They can use it as an excuse for anything. National Security Trumps all.

So I am certainly not comfortable that people can be detained INDEFINITELY without charges!

[AngusThermopyle]

Max: The best thing to do is to get your ass out of here. Best way that you can. Billy Hayes: Yeah, but how? Max: Catch the midnight express. Billy Hayes: But what's that? Max: [laughs] Well it's not a train. It's a prison word for... escape. But it doesn't stop around here.

That was such a superb movie. Even after all these years it's still at the top of my list for favourite movies. It certainly serves to illustrate the difference in justice between countries.

[DogOnPorch]

That was such a superb movie. Even after all these years it's still at the top of my list for favourite movies. It certainly serves to illustrate the difference in justice between countries.

It was a great movie, indeed...but, the real William Hayes didn't have quite as rough a time as the movie version. However, this first scene where he's taken down by the Turkish border guards is fairly accurate.

If you enjoyed the music...try this link...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlCihQ1X-HQ

None-the-less...a Turkish prison is no place to spend the next 30 years. It certainly makes me leary of smuggling contraband out of dubious areas of the planet. Much like beheading videos make me unsure about that vacation in oh...say...the entire Middle-East not including Israel.

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99 and a 1/2 just won't do...

---John Fogerty

[Moxie]

Khadr should be accorded justice? What justice did this Khadr kid accord the American trooper he killed? The American trooper who, as a medic, was simply trying to save the life of another American trooper in this firefight that Khadr's father was also killed in?

I wonder how much justice the American medic's widow and family feels Khadr should receive at the hands of a military tribunal? I wonder if the American medic's widow feels that justice would have been done if the Khadr kid had been left to bleed to death from his wounds? Instead, the Khadr kid's life was saved by another American medic.

The Americans have made a huge mistake. All of these 'foreign fighters' in Gitmo should have been shipped back to Afghanistan to rot in one of the Afghani prisons.

The Canadian liberal (not party) bedwetters could then shriek and holler and wring their hands about the treatment of the Convenient Canadian citizen Khadr kid in a filthy, squalid, Afghani jail cell.

Why Canadians are paying for this Canadian lawyer and his team to represent this Khadr kid in a U.S. tribunal while the U.S. has provided an excellent defence team is another question. Cut the little puke off and maybe he'll be only too pleased to accept the U.S. defence team --- free of charge of course. Just as he accepts all of the other 'privileges' he receives in a U.S. rather than Afghani jail.

`

LOL there is a segment of Canadians who wail and flay about over rumours of "Torture", they spend so much time lamenting the scum of the earths suffering that it's mind boggling. I don't care what happens to him, cry me a river. Perhaps we should have a shoot to kill policy, when in doubt Goat Herder or Enemy Combatant shoot. Most goat herders don't shoot at men in Military Uniforms, not smart ones.

He's an enemy Combatant, he is not a POW he was not wearing a Military Uniform

when he was taken into custody. If the wailers are so worried about him have the US send him back to Afghanistan and let the Afghanistan Government deal with a foreigner bearing arms against the Afghanistan Government. Either way he's dead, I hope.