6,000 public servants move to Gatineau

[Leafless]

"Gatineau's mayor was overjoyed yesterday, and Ottawa's mayor just shrugged it off, as the federal government announced that more than 6,000 public service jobs will move north across the river by 2011."

"With these four properties, "by 2010, 2011, we'll have reached a ratio of 75 per cent/25 per cent,"

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/c...74-7e074d7da114

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What law says Quebec is entitled to 25% of federal jobs?

Why is the federal government tearing apart the rightful home of the federal home of government, the capital city of Canada, Ottawa, Ontario, to appease a province that never even bothered to sign our constitution?

When will the tax payers of this country demand an active voice to stop this traitorous fedral pandering to a province that deserves nothing?

[guyser]

What law says Quebec is entitled to 25% of federal jobs?

Who said it was law?...or is that your rhetoric since you hate all things Quebec?

I suspect the later.

When will the tax payers of this country demand an active voice to stop this traitorous fedral pandering to a province that deserves nothing?

Probably when they are being traitorous and pandering to a province that deserves nothing, and since they deserve something and the Feds arent being traitorous nor pandering....I guess never.

Lets see, you bitch about language money being spent, you bitch about the charter ruining this country and costing us lots of money, and yet right in the article it says .."but will also save the federal government money.

"Leasing similar buildings in downtown Ottawa would have cost 20 to 30 per cent more," he said."

You are getting mixed up these days. You could apply to work for them again.

So they are moving offices 10 miles away, lots of companies do the same.

[Posit]

Ummm....Ottawa-Gatineau is the "National Capital Region"

[Leafless]

Who said it was law?...or is that your rhetoric since you hate all things Quebec?

I suspect the later.

This has got nothing to do with hate.

This has got to do with Quebec bullying the Fed's into a corner for outrageous demands.

The federal government should stand on its own two feet and treat all provinces equally and not be threatened by provinces like Quebec, to tear apart Ottawa's federal real estate to satisfy Quebec's 'lust for power'.

Lets see, you bitch about language money being spent, you bitch about the charter ruining this country and costing us lots of money, and yet right in the article it says .."but will also save the federal government money.

"Leasing similar buildings in downtown Ottawa would have cost 20 to 30 per cent more," he said."

Well, they could save even more money moving the offices to P.E.I. or Nova Scotia or Manitoba if that was a prime motivator, which it isn't.

You are just a typical socialist who believes 'one for one and one for all'.

Have respect for your country and know all federal government buildings belong in the Capital city of Canada, Ottawa and no where else.

So they are moving offices 10 miles away, lots of companies do the same.

The federal government is not a company and should not pander to any province to appease a ' a cheap power grab' especially Quebec a province that that caters to its own separatist or sovereign ideologies and could not care less about the federal government or other provinces in Canada.

[Leafless]

Ummm....Ottawa-Gatineau is the "National Capital Region"

That is nothing more than federal propaganda and really has no official meaning but is just another Quebec demand to squeeze itself into the federal workings or another 'cheap power grab' that comes after the fed's relocating so many government departments into that province to satisfy Quebec's insatiable lust for power.

How that name "National Capital Region" sometimes gets to be identified and printed on non-federal commercial maps is a real mystery, since it is only a federal designation arrived at by federal demographics and has nothing to do with provincial identification relating to cities and provinces in Canada.

The fact is Posit, Ottawa, is the Capital city of Canada and no other city in Canada has that honour.

[guyser]

Leafless , you could not be more transparent if you planned it.

Gatineau is one bridge away as you well know. Land is not exactly empty in Ottawa. They need to find another spot and the Gat area can accomodate it , and do so at a cheaper cost, without disrupting anyones lives via moving etc. Just a bit longer commute perhaps.

And it does have to do with hate. You have made that abundantly clear in some threads here. You said who made it law, when in fact only you read that as it was not in your cite.Maybe hate is too strong, can we settle on extreme dislike ?

..to tear apart Ottawa's federal real estate to satisfy Quebec's 'lust for power'.

What by having a couple of buildings in Gat will do that? If nothing else in the long run it will increase the value of Ott buildings.

But then you will be able to blame Quebec for rising prices in Ottawa.

Well, they could save even more money moving the offices to P.E.I. or Nova Scotia or Manitoba if that was a prime motivator, which it isn't.

How do you know it isnt a motivator? And money would be saved how? Once they pay off severance for those not wanting to move away from where they are, the increased costs for trnasferring documents etc.

You are just a typical socialist who believes 'one for one and one for all'.

Have respect for your country and know all federal government buildings belong in the Capital city of Canada, Ottawa and no where else.

What an idiotic statement to make.

I respect all of this country and it would seem to me I do so much more than you. I dont cry and whine about everything saying the Charter the Charter Boo hoo , poor me !

There are Fed buildings all over the country , so lets strike that idea down.

The Fed should be and are in many respects like a business. They, according to your cite, did this to save money , and I suspect (that means IMHO) to spread the wealth around a bit.

Called win win. Good for them.

[Leafless]

Leafless , you could not be more transparent if you planned it.

Gatineau is one bridge away as you well know. Land is not exactly empty in Ottawa. They need to find another spot and the Gat area can accomodate it , and do so at a cheaper cost, without disrupting anyones lives via moving etc. Just a bit longer commute perhaps.

Cheaper cost has nothing to do with it.

It is all about Quebec's lust for power:

"With these four properties, "by 2010, 2011, we'll have reached a ratio of 75 per cent/25 per cent," said Mr. Fortier, referring to the percentage of office space the government uses on either side of the Ottawa River."

And it does have to do with hate.

Inferring bigotry is a cheap way to try to earn points to support your assertions.

Attack the issue not the poster.

You have made that abundantly clear in some threads here. You said who made it law, when in fact only you read that as it was not in your cite.Maybe hate is too strong, can we settle on extreme dislike ?

Then why does the federal government not cater to the other provinces in the same way it caters to Quebec including special powers other provinces are not entitled to such as immigration?

So I will ask you again.

What OTHER official document makes Quebec so deserving over the needs or similar requirements of other provinces, who would certaintly all enjoy the same amount of federal attention as Quebec? Our country is a federation and does not consist of only the province of Quebec.

What by having a couple of buildings in Gat will do that? If nothing else in the long run it will increase the value of Ott buildings.

It is not a couple buildings in Gatineau. It part of whole series of moves, involving federal government moving departments into Quebec to satisfy Quebec's lust for power. " "With these four properties, "by 2010, 2011, we'll have reached a ratio of 75 per cent/25 per cent," said Mr. Fortier, referring to the percentage of office space the government uses on either side of the Ottawa River."

Quebec is demanding 25% of federal real estate.

But then you will be able to blame Quebec for rising prices in Ottawa.

You have that backwards.

It is Quebec properties that have benefited in value. Look at commercial and residential real estate values over the previous 10 years and you will see 40k townhouse, for instance, is now in the vicinity of 140k. Federal influence has helped Gatineau tremendously, while forcing Ottawa to look for new sources employment sources to fill the federal jobs lost to Gatineau, Quebec.

In fact to-day, with the higher higher income taxes in Quebec, you actually get better value in Ottawa relating to mortgages and home ownership.

How do you know it isnt a motivator? And money would be saved how? Once they pay off severance for those not wanting to move away from where they are, the increased costs for trnasferring documents etc.

Severances apply to federal Ottawa, workers that refuse to work in Quebec also. Quebec is counting on federal jobs, not only providing real estate space.

Transferring documents is all done electronically and just as fast as phone call and is not an issue.

[guyser]

Cheaper cost has nothing to do with it.

It is all about Quebec's lust for power:

"With these four properties, "by 2010, 2011, we'll have reached a ratio of 75 per cent/25 per cent," said Mr. Fortier, referring to the percentage of office space the government uses on either side of the Ottawa River."

Ok, it is both. For me to miss that was wrong. But it is not just for the 75/25.

Inferring bigotry is a cheap way to try to earn points to support your assertions.

Attack the issue not the poster.

I infer nothing. You do have a hate on for the Prov of Quebec.

Then why does the federal government not cater to the other provinces in the same way it caters to Quebec including special powers other provinces are not entitled to such as immigration?

We are talking about buildings in the NCC region and Gat.

So I will ask you again.

What OTHER official document makes Quebec so deserving over the needs or similar requirements of other provinces, who would certaintly all enjoy the same amount of federal attention as Quebec? Our country is a federation and does not consist of only the province of Quebec.

Again, we are talking about Gat and Ottawa, nothing more. Ott/Gat is a special place by having the Feds in that region. If the capital was Thunder Bay , then Winnipeg would get some spillover. It is logical .

It is not a couple buildings in Gatineau. It part of whole series of moves, involving federal government moving departments into Quebec to satisfy Quebec's lust for power. " "With these four properties, "by 2010, 2011, we'll have reached a ratio of 75 per cent/25 per cent," said Mr. Fortier, referring to the percentage of office space the government uses on either side of the Ottawa River."

Quebec is demanding 25% of federal real estate.

Que is not demanding anything. No where does there mention any demands. Trudeau set as a loose target for the 75/25 and this is achieving it.

But then you will be able to blame Quebec for rising prices in Ottawa

You have that backwards.

It is Quebec properties that have benefited in value. Look at commercial and residential real estate values over the previous 10 years and you will see 40k townhouse, for instance, is now in the vicinity of 140k. Federal influence has helped Gatineau tremendously, while forcing Ottawa to look for new sources employment sources to fill the federal jobs lost to Gatineau, Quebec.

In fact to-day, with the higher higher income taxes in Quebec, you actually get better value in Ottawa relating to mortgages and home ownership.

No I have it right. Once all the land in downtown Ott is leased, then the market will expand to Gat, thereby increasing the value for Ottawa. It is a spillover benefit.

Fed influence should be used for Gat. The last time I was there it looked like a backwater dump. They need improvements, the Feds need space, it is a win win for all.And it achieves some balance.

How do you know it isnt a motivator? And money would be saved how? Once they pay off severance for those not wanting to move away from where they are, the increased costs for trnasferring documents etc.

Transferring documents is all done electronically and just as fast as phone call and is not an issue.

We like to think so, but the fact is paper is used more than ever and paper files exist in huge quantities .Documents and all sorts of other things will cost more sending them to and fro.

Maybe Toronto should cry and get some Fed buildings since the taxes in 416 are enormous and keep the country going? Same for Alberta?

No, not at all. The NCC is an anomaly, same as Wash DC. With the Capital you get great spinoff benefits. Look at Ott, it is a beautiful city. And why...?....Fed money. As it should be.

[geoffrey]

It is all about Quebec's lust for power

Perhaps. I'd like to rephrase it as Ontario and Quebec's battle over the power of the rest of Canada.

You see, your getting pissed at 6,000 jobs moving 30 minutes away. I'm a 5 hour flight and a 30 hour drive from power.

Multiply your disatisfaction with the situation by that kind of ratio and apply it to the entire government and you'll get my impression.

You sound ridiculous when you think of it, all mad that Ottawa/Ontario is losing to Quebec, when Alberta (for example) never had anything to begin with in terms of Federal moola.

[Argus]

Ummm....Ottawa-Gatineau is the "National Capital Region"

No, in fact it is not. Ottawa is the capital.

[Argus]

The real point here is the moving of jobs around the country for the short-term political gain of political parties. The ignorant can say what they want about the economics of moving into Gatineau, but it's all about politics, not money. In fact, the federal government costs a lot more to run because of this sort of thing. My agency, for example, has to fly people to "tax centres" all across Canada that were placed there as booty by various local MPs of the time, instead of them all being in Ottawa, where they used to be located. You would not believe the travel budget of our agency because of this, not to mention the difficulty of finding skilled staff because the program jobs are all out in the regions, yet the HQ jobs are hundreds, if not thousands of miles away. Communications is difficult, monitoring is difficult, training and updating tax centre staff on policy and program changes is far more difficult. Hell, when we want official forms we have to order them from Toronto. When we want translations done - well the translation group is in Shawingan.

It's the same for all the departments, spread out all over the country as "gifts" to the locals, regardless of what that does to efficiency and the timely exchange of information.

As to this particular case, anyone who thinks shifting thousands of people to Gatineau is going to be painless is a fool. Every department and group which moves will be shedding hundreds if not thousands of skilled people for years afterwards, as people who live in Ottawa - esp Anglos - scramble for other jobs and flee back to the city and away from Gatineau. The costs to the departments involved, in terms of both money and efficiency of operation, will never be enumerated on a balance sheet, but they are very real.

And you will be paying them. For what reason exactly?

[Leafless]

It is all about Quebec's lust for power

Perhaps. I'd like to rephrase it as Ontario and Quebec's battle over the power of the rest of Canada.

You see, your getting pissed at 6,000 jobs moving 30 minutes away. I'm a 5 hour flight and a 30 hour drive from power.

Multiply your disatisfaction with the situation by that kind of ratio and apply it to the entire government and you'll get my impression.

You sound ridiculous when you think of it, all mad that Ottawa/Ontario is losing to Quebec, when Alberta (for example) never had anything to begin with in terms of Federal moola.

This is a situation about Quebec stealing power, with the help of corrupt French PM's in a corrupt fashion, is the heart of the matter.

Ottawa the Capital of Canada is the designated home of the federal government and is a government town and does benefit from being designated the Capital of Canada. And is anything wrong with that? Any one in Canada if they think it is worth the effort can apply and move to Ottawa for federal government employment.

Currently especially relating to bilingual federal jobs the fed's discriminate by not allowing every Canadian to apply unless they are living in the Ottawa region.

I think if Canada has to export federal departments to other provinces (especially Quebec who has never signed our constitution and harbours separatist and sovereign ideologies with many in Quebec who think it is a country) as a method of creating employment, then Canada is in extremely bad shape economically, lacks strong leadership, and does not deserve to be a country.

[Leafless]

I infer nothing. You do have a hate on for the Prov of Quebec.

Did I ever say I hate Quebec?

I think I have made it apparent in this thread and others that I think Quebec is undeserving of federal special treatment and that is all there is to it.

Quebec has special constitutional powers and if they refuse to help themselves for fear of being assimilated by the English, then that is their problem and should not be the problem of Canadians to pad Quebec's ideologies and Quebecers lifestyles for eternity because of this.

This is not the first time you laid on me the hate or bigot label without justification and have failed to understand initially my point of view.

You have made it apparent in other threads, you are a minority of some sort and have a strong dislike of the White majority, Christian population of Canada or simply a cheesed off socialist not getting his way.

[Argus]

Inferring bigotry is a cheap way to try to earn points to support your assertions.

Attack the issue not the poster.

I infer nothing. You do have a hate on for the Prov of Quebec.

Almost all the Ontario Francophones I know actively dislike Quebec and everything about its whiny begging role in confederation. Are they bigots?

[geoffrey]

I think if Canada has to export federal departments to other provinces (especially Quebec who has never signed our constitution and harbours separatist and sovereign ideologies with many in Quebec who think it is a country) as a method of creating employment, then Canada is in extremely bad shape economically, lacks strong leadership, and does not deserve to be a country.

Your starting to realise it, slowly but surely.

[fellowtraveller]

"There are Fed buildings all over the country , so lets strike that idea down."

OK, let's strike it down. With the exception of Otawa and the province of Quebec, the feds have been downsizing real estate - office space in particular- for about 15 years. Many owned buildings have been sold. They own less and lease more, except in the National Capital Region. The NCC is an interesting concept, by the way. elswhere in Canada(Public Works for example) budgets are pared to the bone and beyond. The NCC essentially has no budget. With a Deputy Minister in every building, and an Asssitant DM on every floor - all with political not adminstrative mandates - money is not an issue when it comes to their real estate.

[Leafless]

I think if Canada has to export federal departments to other provinces (especially Quebec who has never signed our constitution and harbours separatist and sovereign ideologies with many in Quebec who think it is a country) as a method of creating employment, then Canada is in extremely bad shape economically, lacks strong leadership, and does not deserve to be a country.

Your starting to realise it, slowly but surely.

I have been saying this since initially becoming a member here on mapleleafweb.com.

To bad this is the first time you noticed.

[geoffrey]

I always thought you maintain we should love Canada, as long as it's done in the white, Ontario way?

[Leafless]

I always thought you maintain we should love Canada, as long as it's done in the white, Ontario way?

Sorry Geoffrey, you lost me with that one.

Could you be a little more specific?

[Leafless]

"Gatineau's mayor was overjoyed yesterday, and Ottawa's mayor just shrugged it off, as the federal government announced that more than 6,000 public service jobs will move north across the river by 2011."

"With these four properties, "by 2010, 2011, we'll have reached a ratio of 75 per cent/25 per cent,"

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/c...74-7e074d7da114

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What law says Quebec is entitled to 25% of federal jobs?

Why is the federal government tearing apart the rightful home of the federal home of government, the capital city of Canada, Ottawa, Ontario, to appease a province that never even bothered to sign our constitution?

When will the tax payers of this country demand an active voice to stop this traitorous federal pandering to a province that deserves nothing?

Well, I guess Harper's pandering to Quebec did pay off after selling out the federal government and catering to Quebec BLACKMAIL and threats of SEPARATION.

" On the eve of Quebec's Fete Nationale and the 140th anniversary of Confederation, a new survey shows more than eight Quebecers in 10 believe their province will be part of Canada 10 years from now."

Hallelujah, God save the Queen and the hell with the 'rest of Canada' and political ethics.

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/s...1c-b8c9c02574b4

To bad Harper is not smart enough to see through the smoke that Quebecers will never be happy unless Canada is ruled by another string of Quebec of French Liberal PM's who will no doubt feed Quebec's insatiable political appetite to the point making the Conservatives look like a boy scouts charitable organization.

[kimmy]

My guess is that it probably makes handy financial sense to build federal buildings in Gatineau rather than Ottawa.

Property on the other side of the river can probably be purchased for pennies per hectare. The government might as well use it, because it's not like anybody else is doing anything constructive with it. If you're not in a customer-oriented business, then building on cheap land makes financial sense, and I've got a strong hunch that the land in Gatineau is a heck of a lot cheaper than land just a few kilometers away on the other side of the river. Private businesses are going to want to stay on the Ontario side of the river, for obvious reasons. So why compete with them for that land, when an obvious source of cheap real estate is so close by?

So a relative handful of civil servants will have to drive across the river to get to work. Is it that big a deal?

-k

[Leafless]

My guess is that it probably makes handy financial sense to build federal buildings in Gatineau rather than Ottawa.

Property and housing values are pretty well at par with Ottawa thanks to the tremendous growth in Ottawa.

The other plus factor for Quebec is any federal construction on the Quebec side will be dominated by Quebec workers with few if any from the province of Ontario.

So a relative handful of civil servants will have to drive across the river to get to work. Is it that big a deal?

Actually you got that backwards.

The Anglophone federal workforce in Quebec is 2.2% in March 2006.

The Francophone federal workforce across Canada is 22% out of (old figures) 333,643 federal public employees, with 75% of those in the Ottawa area, for a total of around 70,000 Francophones many of whom live in Ottawa.

So there are many that cross the bridge to go to work each morning, each way, including thousands from Gatineau Quebec that pour into Ottawa.

http://www.ocol-clo.gc.ca/archives/ar_ra/2...t/dfo_mpo_e.htm

http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/981208/d981208.htm

Please read these links, it will inform you.