WTC7 Demolition on mainstream news site

[PolyNewbie]

Riverwind: Guess what? NIST does not beleive in the pancake theory either. Sounds like this guy is spouting off without getting all of the facts.

The first NIST report did not support pancake theory and that was after the NOVA show I believe. The NIST conclusions about how the collapse occured are constantly changing, they did support pancaking for a while. The experts that you quote also have all different opinions.

The FEMA report did support pancaking, the NIST report didn't, then the NIST report went back to pancaking and I think now its the "Pile Driver Theory". The NIST report has changed so often that you have to really follow it to keep track. They still haven't been able to explain wtc7, funny that you guys can.

The NIST report explanations constantly change as they are discredited.

[Riverwind]

The first NIST report did not support pancake theory and that was after the NOVA show I believe. The NIST conclusions about how the collapse occured are constantly changing, they did support pancaking for a while. The experts that you quote also have all different opinions.

You are frabricating arguments again. The NIST explainations have not changed since they released the final report. No credible academic has disputed the explaination in the final NIST report.

The NIST report explanations constantly change as they are discredited.

BS. NIST may have produced a number of theories but that is the normal part of an investigation. Truthies on the other hand are constantly changing their theories to explain away all the contradictions and incoherent logic.

[PolyNewbie]

You are frabricating arguments again. The NIST explainations have not changed since they released the final report. No credible academic has disputed the explaination in the final NIST report.

When was the report "finalized" ? Lots of credible acedemics from physicists to engineers discredit the official version of 911 8-) - including structural engineers. Stephen Jones is a very "credible" acedemic and the fact that he directed government programs in advanced energy studies and was willing to lose his job over this makes him more credible.

It doesn't take an expert to see how ridiculous it all is.

This military pilot though the official story with the box cutter wielding terrorists taking over the cockpits was nearly impossible - particularly when you consider it happened 4 times on that one day 8-). The flight maneuvers to take the plane into the Pentagon could not be completed successfully by most pilots in simulators after 10 attempts. One of the instructors got it on the ninth attempt.

One thing us conspiracy theorists haven't done is show what the pilots think of the official version and how laughable it gets. It just gets more and more ridiculous the more you look and more and more experts are comming out every day.

It gets more and more clear why the real qualified investigators were not allowed anywhere near the 911 investigation and a propogandist was chosen to direct the investigation rather than an experienced forensics expert.

[PolyNewbie]

Engineers, scientists, military pilots, structural Phds question 911

Jack Keller, PhD, PE – Professor Emeritus, Civil and Environmental Engineering, Utah State University. Member, National Academy of Engineering. International advisor on water resources, development and agricultural water use. Serves as an advisor to the CALFED Water Use Efficiency Program and former member CALFED Independent Science Board. Awarded State of Utah Governor's Medal for Science and Technology (1988). Selected by Scientific American magazine as one of the world's 50 leading contributors to science and technology benefiting society (2004).

Member: Scholars for 9/11 Truth Association Statement: "Research proves the current administration has been dishonest about what happened in New York and Washington, D.C. The World Trade Center was almost certainly brought down by controlled demolitions and that the available relevant evidence casts grave doubt on the government's official story about the attack on the Pentagon."

Jörg Schneider, Dr hc – Professor Emeritus, Structural Dynamics and Earthquake Engineering, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology. Former Vice President and honorary lifetime member of the International Association for Bridge and Structural Engineering.

Tages Anzeiger Article 9/9/06: " In my opinion the building WTC 7 [610 feet tall, 47 stories, and not hit by an airplane] was, with great probability, professionally demolished," says Hugo Bachmann, Emeritus ETH-Professor of Structural Analysis and Construction. And also Jörg Schneider, likewise emeritus ETH-Professor of Structural Analysis and Construction, interprets the few available video recordings as evidence that "the building WTC 7 was with great probability demolished."

English translation: http://www.danieleganser.ch

Original in German: http://www.danieleganser.ch

So thats three structural professors that I have never linked to.

[PolyNewbie]

So where is that list of NIST experts ?

[Riverwind]

When was the report "finalized" ?

It is on the NIST website. It is clear you are trashing a document that you have never read.

structural engineers. Stephen Jones is a very "credible" academic and the fact that he directed government programs in advanced energy studies and was willing to lose his job over this makes him more credible.

Hardly. It just makes him a deluded attention seeker looking for his 15 minutes of fame.

This military pilot though the official story with the box cutter wielding terrorists taking over the cockpits was nearly impossible

More unproven claims. Before 9/11 plane hijackers always landed the planes so the passengers had no reason to risk their life fighting back. However, once the passengers figured out what was really going on thet fought back and prevented the plane from hitting its target. The flight data recorder and airphone/cell phone calls provide a lot of evidence that supports this version of events.

The flight maneuvers to take the plane into the Pentagon could not be completed successfully by most pilots in simulators after 10 attempts. One of the instructors got it on the ninth attempt.

I don't believe that for a minute. I suspect your are making up facts again. Flying a plane that is already in the air is relatively easy. I have not flown 767s but I have flown smaller planes and know that it is not that difficult to control their flight path.

One thing us conspiracy theorists haven't done is show what the pilots think of the official version and how laughable it gets.

The Bush administration has proven its incompetence over and over again yet you expect us to believe that this is all an 'act' and that they were capable of pulling off the hoax of the century? That claim is not only laughable - it is downright pathetic.

You claim that the government deliberately murdered thousands of its citizens with the assistance of hundreds of collaborators yet none of these collaborators have had crisis of conscious and come forward to confess their part? That is truly laughable.

You claim that tonnes of explosives could have been installed in three towers and no one noticed?

You claim that American and United Airlines would allow their planes to be modified by the government to allow remote control and that none of the employees for these companies noticed anything strange?

[PolyNewbie]

Riuverwind: I don't believe that for a minute. I suspect your are making up facts again. Flying a plane that is already in the air is relatively easy. I have not flown 767s but I have flown smaller planes and know that it is not that difficult to control their flight path.

Thats just what this military commander / Navy aviator said on the show I linked. You can listen to it yourself but I'm sure you being an expert scientist, expert financial analysist and now expert pilot can discredit him.

[PolyNewbie]

Riverwind:You claim that the government deliberately murdered thousands of its citizens with the assistance of hundreds of collaborators yet none of these collaborators have had crisis of conscious and come forward to confess their part? That is truly laughable.

You claim that tonnes of explosives could have been installed in three towers and no one noticed?

You claim that American and United Airlines would allow their planes to be modified by the government to allow remote control and that none of the employees for these companies noticed anything strange?

Its what all the intelligence experts, pilots, structural engineers, ex senators, ex congressmen, ex military generals, colonels, majors and pilots all think that I listed above on my post showing comments by structural Phds on 911.

Obviously you know better. Where is this link with all the NIST experts ?

[Riverwind]

Jack Keller, PhD, PE – Professor Emeritus, Civil and Environmental Engineering, Utah State University

He received his Phd on "Irrigation Engineering". He is most definitly not an expert in the subject.

Jörg Schneider, Dr and Hugo Bachmann

These guys have written nothing on the subject. The only information available is that quotation and there is no way to know if they were given misinformation before he made that statement. Show me a paper written by them if you want to use them as a expert.

[ScottSA]

The Bush administration has proven its incompetence over and over again yet you expect us to believe that this is all an 'act' and that they were capable of pulling off the hoax of the century? That claim is not only laughable - it is downright pathetic.

You claim that the government deliberately murdered thousands of its citizens with the assistance of hundreds of collaborators yet none of these collaborators have had crisis of conscious and come forward to confess their part? That is truly laughable.

You claim that tonnes of explosives could have been installed in three towers and no one noticed?

You claim that American and United Airlines would allow their planes to be modified by the government to allow remote control and that none of the employees for these companies noticed anything strange?

It's called suspending critical thought and then innoculating oneself from counterfacts. That's why Polly never actually reads the links provided and doggedly repeats the same argument that was just rebutted. Polly has no interest in knowing the truth; his sole interest is in preached the Word of Plot.

[PolyNewbie]

It's called suspending critical thought and then innoculating oneself from counterfacts. That's why Polly never actually reads the links provided and doggedly repeats the same argument that was just rebutted. Polly has no interest in knowing the truth; his sole interest is in preached the Word of Plot.

I posted the comments by structural Phd's below the link that I posted.

So you think all these experts are dellusional and that they should listen to you and you can straighten them out ?

So you think these guys are just dullsional ScottsA ? :

Jack Keller, PhD, PE – Professor Emeritus, Civil and Environmental Engineering, Utah State University. Member, National Academy of Engineering. International advisor on water resources, development and agricultural water use. Serves as an advisor to the CALFED Water Use Efficiency Program and former member CALFED Independent Science Board. Awarded State of Utah Governor's Medal for Science and Technology (1988). Selected by Scientific American magazine as one of the world's 50 leading contributors to science and technology benefiting society (2004).

Member: Scholars for 9/11 Truth Association Statement: "Research proves the current administration has been dishonest about what happened in New York and Washington, D.C. The World Trade Center was almost certainly brought down by controlled demolitions and that the available relevant evidence casts grave doubt on the government's official story about the attack on the Pentagon."

Jörg Schneider, Dr hc – Professor Emeritus, Structural Dynamics and Earthquake Engineering, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology. Former Vice President and honorary lifetime member of the International Association for Bridge and Structural Engineering.

Tages Anzeiger Article 9/9/06: " In my opinion the building WTC 7 [610 feet tall, 47 stories, and not hit by an airplane] was, with great probability, professionally demolished," says Hugo Bachmann, Emeritus ETH-Professor of Structural Analysis and Construction. And also Jörg Schneider, likewise emeritus ETH-Professor of Structural Analysis and Construction, interprets the few available video recordings as evidence that "the building WTC 7 was with great probability demolished."

English translation: http://www.danieleganser.ch

Original in German: http://www.danieleganser.ch

Maybe you are the one that is dullusional

[Riverwind]

Thats just what this military commander / Navy aviator said on the show I linked.

Again - claims made in audio or video interviews mean nothing because there is no context and no way to verify that the experiment was not rigged to produce the conclusion that he wanted to make. There are thousands of ex pilots out there. If the maneuver was so difficult then I would expect to hear the same statement from many people. The silence means one thing: this guy is making things up.

[PolyNewbie]

Riverwind: There are thousands of ex pilots out there. If the maneuver was so difficult then I would expect to hear the same statement from many people.

Not many people are qualified to say what an airliner can and cannot do. There seems to be a lot of pilots here that think the maneuvers were impossible (keep in mind these guys are just military pilots, naval aviators and instructors - none with the expertise of Riverwind - we are so lucky to have you post here )

Pilots for 911 Truth

[Wilber]

This military pilot though the official story with the box cutter wielding terrorists taking over the cockpits was nearly impossible - particularly when you consider it happened 4 times on that one day 8-). The flight maneuvers to take the plane into the Pentagon could not be completed successfully by most pilots in simulators after 10 attempts. One of the instructors got it on the ninth attempt.

As a civil pilot who was flying B767's at the time I can tell you it is entirely possible. The terrorists would be the only ones on the aircraft who were armed, cockpit doors at that time were often not locked in cruise and often left open for minutes at a time. Regardless, they were very easy to force even if they were locked. Basically they were designed to keep passengers from mistaking it for a washroom door. Since 9/11 they have been made bullet proof, are kept locked all the time, have deadbolt locks and there are strict protocols for the times they are opened. There is no reason the crews would have divined the terrorist's intentions because an aircraft had never been hijacked with the intention of destroying everyone on it. Techniques taught to deal with hijacking at the time were designed to defuse the situation, not aggravate it with the use of force.

As far as flying the aircraft into the Pentagon goes, a pilot hits a particular spot on a runway every time he lands, hitting the largest building in the world would be no problem at all. Of course you are assuming that the person flying that aircraft hit the precise spot he was aiming at although why you would assume that I have no idea. I won't deny there may have been some luck involved but he just wanted to hit the building somewhere.

If any pilot had difficulty with such a maneuver it is because deliberately crashing an aircraft goes against everything he has ever trained for or is in his nature. A pilots mindset in a simulator differs little from the real aircraft and a simulator crash really deflates one psychologically, even though there are no physical consequences. Pilots run simulations to see if they are survivable, not with the intention of killing themselves. To do otherwise goes completely against their grain.

[ScottSA]

-Pilots For Truth is in its infancy and has only been released to the public recently. We only cover the facts as our mission statement explains on the home page.

- We currently have over 20 pilots/aviation professionals and growing at Pilots For Truth.

Ok, of the 1000s of pilots out there, all allegedly clamouring that 911 was "impossible", these folks have found 20 after 6 years of looking. But they're still growing!

[PolyNewbie]

Riverwind: These guys have written nothing on the subject. The only information available is that quotation and there is no way to know if they were given misinformation before he made that statement.

That must be it !!!

ROTFLMAO !

[PolyNewbie]

Wilber: As a civil pilot who was flying B767's at the time I can tell you it is entirely possible.

These guys listed have flown F22's, instructed on F22's, flown F-15's in combat. You are not their equal. Don't pretend to be.

[PolyNewbie]

Nest you guys are going to tell me that the constitutiuonal law professor on Alex Jones today is dullusional as well.

[PolyNewbie]

Wilber:Pilots run simulations to see if they are survivable, not with the intention of killing themselves. To do otherwise goes completely against their grain.

I've played on flight sims and done suicide missions. Its against my grain too.

[PolyNewbie]

Wilber: Of course you are assuming that the person flying that aircraft hit the precise spot he was aiming at although why you would assume that I have no idea

It just seems like a heck of a coincidence that the plane hit the Pentagon exactly where all those investigators of the missing trillions were working. I guess its just another coincidence.

[PolyNewbie]

Its funny reading these posts and how you guys will stretch logic to protect the Bush administration.

[Riverwind]

Riverwind: These guys have written nothing on the subject. The only information available is that quotation and there is no way to know if they were given misinformation before he made that statement.

That must be it !!!

Why not. Thruthie sites are full of disinformation and falsifications. There is no reason to believe that those professors were basing their opinion on correct information or what opinion those professors may have now. That is why their opinion means nothing unless they write something down that explains why they have that opinion.

IOW - your have more or less proved that the truthies claims are not supported by any structural engineers despite the fact that there are thousands of such people in the world that have no allegience to the US. Their silence speaks volumes.

[PolyNewbie]

Their silence speaks volumes.

It says they don't want to put themselves, careers or jobs at risk and they cannot afford to be put on no fly lists. The law professor explains what is going on with the no fly lists during the last hour of the Alex Jones show - cycles every three hours starting at 12 noon EST at infowars.com.

This explains why more people are not comming out for 911truth or protesting the wars or speaking out about 911.

But he is just a law professor, you can probably discredit him with your credentials. By the way, what kind of engineer are you ? How much actual flight experience do you have to say that naval aviator was wrong ?

[ScottSA]

By the way, what kind of engineer are you ? How much actual flight experience do you have to say that naval aviator was wrong ?

I take it you missed Wilbur's post?

[PolyNewbie]

ScottsA:I take it you missed Wilbur's post?

I take it that you don't read the thread before commenting.