Chretien's Legacy

[Craig Read]

So let's debate Chretien's legacy. The Good the Bad and the Very ugly.

Some say history will reward JC with saving Canada, destroying Quebec separatism, inventing the Clarity Act, holding the country's regions together and protecting the social services and welfare state that Canadians so adore.

What do you guys think of JC and his rank in history ?

[xcr]

Chretian has not treated the military appropratly. He has however, increased the amount of parkland and protected land. He has cut social spending, but balenced the budget. On the downsdide, the surpless has been spent more on taxcuts than on debt reduction, which in the long term would allow lower tax without as much social cuts (due to reduced intrust payments. Sepritism does seem to have droped in popularity in Quebec under his government. Weather the good outweigs the bad- I personally am not a liberal party suporter, but think that it has. Chretian has not by any means been a remarakble leader, but he has been capable.

[Hugo]

What else has Chretien done? Let's see:

-Castrated the Canadian military to the point that a police action in Afghanistan has stretched it to the absolute limit

-Neglected police funding to such an extreme that crime rates have soared, making Canada one of the most violent and crime-ridden countries in the Western world

-Soured relations with Canada's main ally and trading partner

-Wasted over a billion dollars on a gun registry that has had absolutely no measurable impact on the crime rate

-Illegally signed the Kyoto accord, which will do nothing to reduce pollution and everything to weaken the economy and shed jobs

-Committed terrible gaffes of foreign policy, refusing to attend state funerals of world leaders in order to go skiing and so forth

-Espoused the wonders of the Canadian healthcare system, wasted more taxpayer money on it without any reforms, while he jets off to private clinics for his personal treatment

-Bought some new private jets at taxpayer's expense, while Canada's military aircrews die in obsolete and unreliable aircraft

-Refused to join a North American anti-missile defence scheme as China and North Korea step up their nuclear missile programmes

-Allowed the courts to over-ride Parliament

-Pushed for gay marriage despite the fact that the Supreme Court and Parliament already voted against it just a few years earlier

-Reformed election funding rules in favour of his own party

-Let an illegally detained Canadian national languish in a foreign jail for years while his "soft diplomacy" did nothing - at which point the Prince of Wales (of all people) stepped in and actually had him released

-Pushed for the legalisation of marijuana without even acknowledging that we have no consensus that it is not very harmful, and then made it worse by making irresponsible comments promoting substance abuse

-Preserved some parkland. Awww, that's super.

That's all I can think of right now, but I wouldn't shed any tears if Chretien was dragged out and shot tomorrow. I think he's one of the most irresponsible and incompetent Prime Ministers ever to be elected to public office.

[xcr]

You did igrore the balenced budget point. A deficit is irresopnsible (essitentaly constuting a tax on future generations, without the benifit of associated services. I did point out the military neglect, and the reduced social spending, as well as innaproprate use of the budget surplus. Crime rates have droped, and the Kyoto accord is a steep in the right direction, albeit a small one, and is hardly illegal. Aside from a few errors, such as not following the sugestion from a former forign minister to cancel 3rd world debt., was farily good. Asid grom that, and the sarcastic tone reguarding expansion on protected land, which is an important and praisworthy steep, your right in your criticism. Howeer, this is hardly an unusual record, and I still hold that the good outweigs the bad. I do not suport the liberal party, did not vote for the liberal party- but am still of the view that chretian is compatent, if compleatly unremarkable. I dobt he will be rememberd as a great PM, but also that he will be rememberd as a particularly bad one. And incidentaly the new challenger jets may not have been needed, but they are operated by the air force, and therefor constitute military transports, and the argument for buying Canadian is valid.

[Hugo]

You did igrore the balenced budget point. A deficit is irresopnsible (essitentaly constuting a tax on future generations, without the benifit of associated services.

The budget is only balanced with massive taxation that hamstrings economic growth.

the Kyoto accord is a steep in the right direction, albeit a small one, and is hardly illegal.

Revisit the thread on Kyoto. It will do nothing because of the way it is designed. It was illegal for the federal government to sign it because emissions regulation is the responsibility of provincial governments.

And incidentaly the new challenger jets may not have been needed, but they are operated by the air force, and therefor constitute military transports, and the argument for buying Canadian is valid.

They are not military transports, though, so this is just using language to find a loophole. The military is sorely lacking in transports, but the military will find these new jets both unavailable and inappropriate for their purposes.

[Cameron]

As Jean Chrétien prepares to leave office, there is an opportunity to assess the performance of Canada's recent Prime Ministers. Who on this list was the best PM?

John Turner 

  2004 votes  (3 %)

Brian Mulroney 

  32718 votes  (50 %)

Kim Campbell 

  5003 votes  (8 %)

Jean Chrétien 

  25995 votes  (40 %)

 

Total Votes: 65720

Globe & Mail

The Glory, oh the Glory!

Chrétien's legacy is nothing much. The Mulroney Administration planted the seeds and the Liberals are picking the flowers, that's all there is to it.

The Liberals have lied to ten years.

1) They said they were going to get rid the GST - Didn't

2) Scrap NAFTA - Didn't

3) They paid $500m to cancel a helicopter deal that would have saved them the headache they have now. We are still years away from getting new equipment.

4) They are buying replacements for the Panther Tanks. A study a couple of years ago stated that the product they are going to buy now, was inferior. Go figure.

Bottom line. JC isn't leaving with much of a legacy. I'm not going to say goodbye. I'm gonna say, it's about time!

[KrustyKidd]

Personally, I would like him to stay for a bit. It would be a dream come true for him to suffer a stroke in Parliament or while blowing a gasket answering an edged question by a reporter. Then we could have a video record of him drooling into a paper clip dispenser or defacating himself in public. This is the essence of his legacy anyhow, why not give us a permanent visual record?

[Craig Read]

I agree with Hugo and KK you made me laugh out loud. Seeing the paralytic Chretien blowing a loose hose in Parliament is worth another Liberal majority.

Chretien has a lot to answer for:

-Widespread corruption

-Supporting 3rd world leaders like Mugabe and Mahatir [furiously shaking the Jew Hater's hand last month], and the PLA and Arafat

-Allowing relations with the US, upon whom we free ride, to sink to new lows

-Choosing France over the US [very stupid]

-Appeasing Quebec and Atlantic Canada with huge sums of cash and transfers

-Not reforming internal free trade [or lack thereof] and distorting subsidies in health, forestry, agro, and banking

-Allowing his ministers to abuse public funds [only Art Eggleton was canned]

-Like Hugo mentioned, the complete destruction of the military has now taken place under Chretien

Normalise the numbers and the man had yearly deficits not surpluses:

1. Take out the EI scam

2. Normalise for military and drug care costs [which the US gives us for free]

Result: 5 % deficits.

[SirRiff]

why pretend to draw up a list when you dont care about the record anyways? glossing over a balanced budget like its nothing, but claiming that he soured relations with the US and he caused corruption?

a reasonable person would realize he is just like every guy before him and every guy after him. not particularly responsible for the good or bad because its beyond the scope of one man even the PM.

the US screwed itself over, corruption is ubiquitous in history uncontrollable by any gov, and canadians arent willing to bankroll an expensive military right now.

an unreasonable person just lists everything in the the last 10 years that is inconvienent and attributes to some concept they dislike.

might as well just blame communists and gays to complete the fanatical mental masterbation.

SirRiff

[RB]

no doubt Chretien has not show leadership in his creation of troubles between the US and canada.

perhaps their politcal ideologies are poles apart but usually differences aside, on/off bush's agenda cancelling trip to canada - not reflective of what canadians want

you have to agree that he is quick wit and....a lawyer

guys you won't win easy now, get rid of chretien and bring in your best vote Martin Brian Mulroney even now [from your report above] you are really going end up getting Paul Martin

[KrustyKidd]

canadians arent willing to bankroll an expensive military right now.

The money we do not spend on the military in proportion would be the equivilent of the US having an extra $300 Billion to spend on all sorts of stuff. Meanwhile they live better than us.

[Slavik44]

the only thing chretien said i agree with was

in his resignation speech(for lack of better name), He said he was resigning for the Good of the country....which is so true chretien resigning is definentley the best thing to happen to canada in 10 years.

Chertians real legacy is showing Canadians how little one needs to do, to go far in Canadian government that is his legacy.

He barely defeated Quebec in the referendum, which sum's up his legacy perfectly; he barely did anything good.

[SirRiff]

The money we do not spend on the military in proportion would be the equivilent of the US having an extra $300 Billion to spend on all sorts of stuff. Meanwhile they live better than us.

i'm not sure what you mean by the 300B.

but for the last line, americans do not live better then me as far as i know. our nation is better in a number of ways. in everyday life money isnt the only measure of happiness. in fact, money is just a method to get at what you really want. our country is run better then the US and canadians i believe live in most areas better lives.

i have been all over the states and never have i seen some national divide of things they have and we dont. it just doesnt exist. they are certainly far richer as a nation, but that is an absolute measure, and when you look at average americans you see the wealth is not spread evenly at all. there is still alot of crime, and poverty, and exploitation down south, even with thier massive wealth.

having seen both countries, i am certain i am not missing anything. else i would move there if i wanted to.

SirRiff

[SirRiff]

oh and one more thing for those who like to occupy thier minds pretending the Liberals are the sole actors of corruption..

RCMP says firm feared '86 payments were bribes

TORONTO - Ontario executives of a German helicopter manufacturer feared their company's payment of $1.2-million in secret commissions for the 1986 sale of helicopters to the Canadian Coast Guard were really "bribes" that could bring down the Progressive Conservative government if exposed, the RCMP alleged in search warrants unsealed yesterday.

http://www.nationalpost.com/home/story.htm...EB-9586EE38231A

as if it wasnt obvious enough, corruption is an inevitable consequence of the design of government.

SirRiff

[Morgan]

Sir Riff,

While it's true that no government is without some instances of corruption, the problem with Chretien and his lackeys is that they have racheted up the corruption ante to the Masters Level.

Here's a good opinion article from the Calgary Sun that's on point with regards to Chretien's dubious "legacy."

Corruption and Cronyism: the high cost of Chretien, Calgary Sun, Nov. 02

Yet another piece of damning evidence on Jean Chretien and his government’s dreary and drastic performances came down as this weekend neared.

The Geneva-based World Economic Forum’s global competitiveness report showed our nation has fallen from ninth to 16th place in a world ranking of economic competitiveness. Just two years ago we were in second place.

That news came just as we learned the U.S. economy grew by a staggering 7.2% in the third quarter of this year. More than double Canada’s growth rate.

The forum, which surveyed 75 of Canada’s most powerful business executives, found their confidence nose-dived mainly because of the Chretien cabinet’s lackadaisical attitude towards corruption and its favouritism towards certain companies by government institutions. Added to those were concerns over strangling bureaucratic red tape and distortive government subsidies.

Another indictment is the forum has now included government waste in its measurement. Here, the Chretien record must be gold star status.

In addition, a new survey for the Centre on Research and Information on Canada found 44% of Canadians want stronger ties with the U.S., and that was an 18% increase since the start of the war in Iraq in March.

That 44% of us want stronger ties with the U.S. shows Chretien — who has gone out of his way to insult President George W. Bush — truly has misjudged the yearnings of Canadians.

In response to the World Economic Forum study, a spokesman for the federal foreign affairs and international trade department said Canadians should take the findings with a “grain of salt.”

That’s strange, because when Federal Industry Minister Allan Rock spoke to the forum this past January he espoused how he considers the organization’s index a valid indicator of how a government really is performing.

Rock, of course, is one of several influential cabinet ministers forced to confess to taking free trips and other hospitality from the powerful Irving family of New Brunswick, a family whose companies have surely benefitted from Liberal government policies and programs.

Canadians should look carefully at the top 10 countries in the rankings and ask why we can’t be among them. In descending order, they are: Finland, the U.S., Sweden, Denmark, Taiwan, Singapore, Switzerland, Iceland, Norway, and Australia.

Perhaps it’s credible to see why the likes of the U.S., and the economic powerhouses of Taiwan and Singapore rate higher than we do, but surely — and we mean no offence — can’t we do better than Finland?

In a finding more like a Monty Python skit than real life, the survey found that the tiny Mediterranean island of Malta, which will join the mighty European Union next year, now ranks just three points below Canada. What is happening in our country?

Fortunately, and while we do not often praise Paul Martin, the prime minister-apparent does want to rebuild our relationship with the U.S. and he is beginning to balk at the way government conducts business with Crown corporations and the private sector. Martin’s warning that Via Rail shouldn’t count on the $700 million handout of taxpayers’ money promised by Chretien is a welcome sign.

So, too, are reports Martin’s main thrusts will be at tax cuts and paying down the staggering $508 billion federal debt rather than continuing Chretien’s free-spending style and cronyism.

Chretien’s 10 years in power really have been a decade of wasted opportunity for our country.

Thankfully, that decade is finally coming to an end.

[Boydfish]

Cretin's legacy as PM, in spin-doctoring at it's best, can be called "balanced". Cretin will never be regarded by historians as much more than a coat-holder who was given a job that nobody else wanted bad enough.

In terms of his leadership within the confederation, I'd give him a "D". He was able to keep Quebec in, but only by the skin of his teeth, which is what keeps his mark from reaching "Called to the principal's office for a well deserved thrashing". Cretin has sparked, then gleefully fed, a growing and now potentially unstoppable wave of nationalism in British Columbia and Alberta that calls for them to abandon the Canadian confederation. While Cretin can hardly even take credit for that, as it was somewhat inevitable that BC and Alberta would outgrow Canada in the not too distant future, it's clear that Cretin has accelerated that to incredible speeds. Perhaps the watershed moment for his regime in that regard came when he ordered the RCMP to gas British Columbians, then made public jokes about it. The gassing was valid; the joking showed British Columbians very publically what Canada and your Prime Minister think of British Columbians.

In terms of leadership outside of the confederation, Cretin hits his high point, reaching a "C+", becoming a lightning rod and beacon for third world, french speaking socialists to rally around. No matter that such a position offends nearly everybody west of the lakehead, he is the Canadian Prime Minister, not the PM of the Western Provinces. In simple and blunt terms, Ontario and Quebec are a franco-socialist nation, they elected him and he has represented them to the world.

In terms of security of the confederation, he should be expelled. He has slashed the budgets of every guardian agency, then forced them to fritter away the few remaining dollars they have on non-mission critical programs such as francophonization and cultural sensitivity.

The Canadian Armed Forces, organizationally speaking, should be the big stick of the security apparatus of the Canadian confederation. Due to the capstone actions of the Cretin regime in dismantling the CF, we have been left with a force that cannot even mount an expeditionary land force to British Columbia, let alone anywhere else in the world. The navy is patrolling in brown water roles with billion dollar blue water frigates. The air force is becoming a quandry service, as it can't keep anything in the air and certainly not with any "force" associated with it.

The "new" aspect of the CF that the Cretin government brought in, "JTF2", is at best a great example of re-inventing the wheel for the sake of being french-friendly. As a loyal member of the British Commonwealth, a Canadian Special Air Service Regiment, much like the Australian or New Zealand versions, would have allowed them to work with the best of the best right away. Instead, because it would remind the french that the least of the English speaking warriors of the world have been far greater than the greatest french warrior, the Canadians needed to try and re-invent the wheel.

The RCMP is literally falling apart. They couldn't catch a cold, let alone a criminal. Of the guardian agencies, the forced francophonization has done the most damage. Despite the protests of Quebec, french is at best a local custom in parts of Central Canada; the vast majority of the confederation has no use for french. This has lead the RCMP to be unable to even speak to most of the citizens of the Canadian confederation.

The CSIS and CSE have done yeoman work, for the most part, but like the rest of the major guardian agencies, have begun to show the signs of cracking.

Perhaps the most damning fact on security in the Cretin years will be this little gem that a contact at CSIS passed onto me: The largest security and intelligence organization in the Canadian confederation, in terms of both budget and manpower? The Canada Customs and Revenue Agency.

In terms of economic policy, he gets a "C". By failing to restore rational fiscal policy to the confederation, especially in excessive personal taxation, he has driven incalcuable amounts of businesses into the grey market. The simple fact that the Canadian government has remained somewhat solvent by excessively taxing the economic "sidewash" of the booming grey market in the confederation is more of an indicator of the wealth present than any great skill in running the economic policy.

Related to the above point, the inability to find a single Canadian Liberal who understands that frittering away money like a drunken sailor on foolishness is his fault, but again, that's Canadians for you, they like socialism.

Overall, he gets a "C-". The Canadian people in Ontario and Quebec elected him; they'll elect another just like him next election and out west, we'll keep getting disgusted by them.

[Craig Read]

BF, good post. On military matters [Martin cut spending to erase the deficit], on security and immigration matters [enough said our immigration policy is an expensive politically inspired mess and the borders are porous], on US relations [is there still a relationship ?], on economics [the overall tax burden and gov't spend is HIGHER not lower], debt reduction [here some progress but we still spend 40 % of Fed Revenue on interest payments !!!] not to mention;

-Corruption in Shawinigan and in the Cabinet [not unique to Chretien but he campaigned in 93 on ethics]

-Ethics commissioner that is appointed by the PM and rubber stamps what he wants

-Parliament becoming increasingly impotent as the PMO's takes more power

-EI over taxation

-Que and the East being bought off with endless streams of tax money [gas taxes for instance]

-Kyoto and NEP II [illegal, incompetent, baseless]

He is a Trudeau Liberal. Not a complimentary term. The two are part of the same legacy - the enforced anti-americanism and socialisation of Canada.

[Moderate Centrist]

"Neglected police funding to such an extreme that crime rates have soared, making Canada one of the most violent and crime-ridden countries in the Western world

Hugo

Which crime rates are you speaking about? Violent crime has been declining in Canada for the past 20 years. Canada is hardly in the grips of a crime wave - this is completely untrue.

Can you back this up with some stats.

Also, since this takes us of the topic of this post perhaps you can respond under a new thread I started in Canadian Politics on Crime Rates and Public Perception.

[Craig Read]

Actually petty crime in Canada is rising [Economist world in numbers 2003 and Stas Can] and is higer per capita than the USA.

Homicide rates are rising in Toronto - i don't know about the rest of the country - at far higher rates than most major US cities. NYC for instance has seen a per capita decline. Again i don't know the homicide rates for the US as a whole, but Toronto's is on the rise.

According to Stats Can crime rates are rising in Canada.

                          1998 1999 2000 2001 2002

  homicides

Canada                558  538  546  553  582

Newfoundland and Labrador 7 2 6 1 2

Prince Edward Island 1 1 3 2 1

Nova Scotia 24 13 15 9 9

New Brunswick 5 9 10 8 9

Quebec 137 137 150 140 118

Ontario 156 162 156 170 178

Manitoba 33 26 30 34 36

Saskatchewan 33 13 26 27 27

Alberta 64 61 59 70 70

British Columbia 90 110 85 84 126

Yukon 3 1 2 1 0

Northwest Territories including Nunavut 5 .. .. .. ..

Northwest Territories .. 1 1 4 4

Nunavut .. 2 3 3 2

[Moderate Centrist]

Yes, but the point is it's not even worth mentioning or changing laws for. Criminals are still being caught and punished and nobody is getting away with murder.

Granted crime is always a serious issue but nowhere near out of control.

In the United States the danger from Crime is actually quite low despite what people think. However the money to be made from the paranoia business ( newspapers, T.V. shows, home security companies and gun salesmen) is high.

Scaring people is good business and that is largely what crime is all about.

As such there is rarely the same outrage expressed for white collar crime/non-violent crime which affects a lot more people.

[Craig Read]

Well crime is a present danger in any society. Paris has a higher murder and crime rate than New York, so much for socialism and peace.

In Toronto we have had a wave of crime - mostly - i hate to say it - from poor blacks, largely Jamaican.

Crime and immigration are closely allied.

Russian mafia control the prostitution and drug trade in Europe. I have even seen Russian mafia buying units in my building. Toronto is rife with strippers and girls from eastern europe who are chattel in the sex trade - out of sight, out of mind for most of us - but nevertheless part of the criminal gangs that litter society.

Immigration needs massive reform and the police need more resources to tackle the heinous and violence that 'seems' to be on the rise - in fact murder and other violent crime stats support this belief.

Law and order have a direct impact on national prosperity - just ask Russians who are witnessing capital flight as Putin throws an oligarch into jail for 2 years with no proof and no trial.

Private property must be protected. This is where Chretien and his group have failed - security and immigration and policing resources are in dire need of transformation.

[Craig Read]

There is an excellent article by Waddell on Chretien's mess - I would categorise Chretien as the worst PM in Canadian history - matched in egregious arrogance and wrongful policy only by Trudeau.

Chretien's sorry legacy

In fact the Federal Gov't is such a mess of hypocrisy, poor morale, poor talent and corruption that Martin will not get anything much accomplished:

Mr. Chrétien's style suited the times but it crippled the federal government as an institution for public policy ideas, debate and implementation – everything needed to lead rather than follow.

With little to do, thousands of the smartest and most able civil servants left, lured by the private sector with higher pay; in an increasingly entrepreneurial society, working for the federal government had no special cache. With them they took ideas, enthusiasm and much of the federal government's institutional memory.

Mr. Martin has a group around him that has been waiting and planning for this moment for more than a decade. They are inheriting a bureaucracy and federal government that is not capable of carrying out whatever plans he and those around him may have.

Right on. Defence spending, security, immigration, US relations, Kyoto, Increasing funding to Quebec and the East, and a broken list of red book promises is Chretien's legacy - in short as Terence Corcoran stated 'he lowered our expectations'.

Hard to do, but correct.

[KrustyKidd]

The Liberals under Cretien spent a billion dollars on C-68. I guess the guys sending these guns didn't get the message they were supposed to register them.

MAIL ORDER GUNS

In Vancouver six handguns, a semi-automatic pistol, as well as a huge cache of a variety of drugs

Customs and Excise Union president Ron Moran said the cache seized only represents a fraction of what is getting into the country.

"Usually they're sent to (post office) boxes and while it's not next to impossible, to have a surveillance team on a PO box is just not economically feasible, and the bad guys know that," Moran said.

"So it's a relatively safe way of doing it with almost being assured of not being getting caught. Even if it's intercepted, you just try again."

[Craig Read]

Chretien's legacy is for most of us an embarassment of corruption, anti-americanism, military impotence, and the maintenance of Canada's Federal political and spending structure. Chretien did nothing fundamentally to alter the nation's course or its Trudeau Liberalism. In fact via the Charter the Courts are more active than ever in shaping our world - and there is nothing citizens can do about it.

Historians will discuss the 'Trudeau-Chretien' era as one and almost the same. Apologists point out that he defied Quebec, reduced the deficits, expanded the economy and distanced Canada from the US. These apologists are however the same group that lionised Trudeau, and feel that post modernism should define Canadian political structures.

Their attitudes, like the actions committed by Chretien are inaccurate and deny that political-economic and moral change is needed in Canada.

Chretien's legacy is as one editor wrote, 'that he lowered our expectations'.

Indeed. Mediocrity has never been more in vogue in Canada.

[udawg]

and canadians arent willing to bankroll an expensive military right now.

I don't disagree with sirriff much, but this is one of those times. I think most Canadians would be more than willing to pay for a military capability exceeding that of ...say, Malta. While an armed force on the scale of say, the US might be extravegant, we would do well to remember that one of the defining factors of sovereignty is the capability to defend oneself and one's borders. Without relying on others.

What Chretien left us, was the building blocks for a possibly bright future. By accident, I might add, but nonetheless, he did it. While Kyoto has been royally screwed, and will never succeed, it has planted the idea of helping the environment in our minds. Give it 20 years, when we'll have technologies that will allow us to cut back emissions without all the economic costs, etc. Countries have agreed it needs to be done, now they just need to be convinced to actually do it.

We have a nation that finally realizes what happens when you neglect an important institution for too many years (ie: the military). Which is, it stops working. This legacy of JC's was by accident, not design, and a high enough price we're going to pay for it, but hopefully in the future it will not get this bad. Maybe in the future, we can buy new helicopters the first time it's suggested. Rather than waiting for 10...15...20 years.

We have a country that is proud of its sovereignty, proud that we defied the mighty US, but is now ready to resume relations. We have made our stand, and can now take part in further activities without fear of losing our national identity.

If there is one thing that I am entirely displeased about, it's Chretien's handling of the French affair. In my opinion, if he hadn't gotten in power, the separtists in Quebec never would have gained enough support to even require calling a referendum.

It's the coddling of the French that made them think they could make it on their own, and now the aftermath of that fiasco is costing us millions, if not billions, of dollars every year in taxes going straight to Quebec. If we didn't help them at every turn, they would have had a few companies fail, their economy would have dropped to the level of the rest of the country, and they would have realized that they're not so much better than us.

Ungrateful little bastards starve the rest of the country of every penny they can get, then have the nerve to try seperating. Next time they start getting all nationalist on us, we should let them go. And when they come crying back to us when they can't make it on their own and the US won't take them, we take all that money straight back from them.

I'm not anti-French, but I am anti-ungrateful-little-separtist-bastard. Who, in this case, happen to be mostly French.