Hollywood muscles Canada

[blueblood]

The massive investment at first is a bank loan, through smart marketing, he can pay it off and make money, going public with a successful company nets you investors, it builds from there.

Without protection no bank will loan money and no investor would provide capital.

Lots of people get loans w/o copyright protection, there's other ways to provide loan security.

[jdobbin]

Hmm. Funny I don't recall Walmart abiding by them then.

It seems few people challenge Wal-Mart on anti-competitive behavior. The thing is that Wal-Mart makes those challenges all the time with other businesses. They are challenging Tesco on Britain. They used to challege A&P in the U.S. on a variety of issues.

Quite a bit has been written on this.

[Wilber]

Lots of people get loans w/o copyright protection, there's other ways to provide loan security.

Ya, who and how?

[blueblood]

The massive investment at first is a bank loan, through smart marketing, he can pay it off and make money, going public with a successful company nets you investors, it builds from there. The better the company does, the more one invests in it. If he can successfully compete with Joe, then Joe is screwed.

Who is going to loan money to, or invest in a company that can have products which took years and a fortune develop ripped off by the first fly by night who has invested nothing? Feel free because there is no way in hell I would. Investing in the fly by night wouldn't even be worthwhile because there would be nothing to copy.

Lots of people invest in Universities to develop products. Without copyright laws, R&D could shift there, then they sell off their initial to development companies, then it gets to get worked out to be cheaper and cheaper.

[blueblood]

Lots of people get loans w/o copyright protection, there's other ways to provide loan security.

Ya, who and how?

Farmers just starting out for starters. They can foreclose when things go south.

[guyser]

Hmm. Funny I don't recall Walmart abiding by them then.

Why thats not funny at all . What does WalMart manufacture ?

IIRC correctly, one has to prove that the "other " company is selling the product below their cost thus shutting out the competition.

Wal Mart just demands they reduce the wholesale price they pay.

[sideshow]

Maybe I will copyright copyrighting. I will retire richer than bill gates.

[Wilber]

Farmers just starting out for starters. They can foreclose when things go south.

What new products do farmers develop that they can't get copyright protection for? Anyone can be forclosed on if they don't pay their bills.

[Wilber]

Lots of people invest in Universities to develop products. Without copyright laws, R&D could shift there, then they sell off their initial to development companies, then it gets to get worked out to be cheaper and cheaper.

Well that sure sounds like a free market to me. We'll institutionalize all the R&D. If you aren't a university employee or student don't bother designing or developing anything because we'll steal your ideas and put you out of business.

[blueblood]

Farmers just starting out for starters. They can foreclose when things go south.

What new products do farmers develop that they can't get copyright protection for? Anyone can be forclosed on if they don't pay their bills.

Umm, my grain and canola. If Hollywood can get copyright protection why can't I?

[Riverwind]

Umm, my grain and canola. If Hollywood can get copyright protection why can't I?

What is unique about your grain and canola? Copyright can only be applied to unique creations. Canola does not qualify as unique.

However, if you developed a new strain of canola that had some unique feature then you would be able to patent that strain and no one would be able to grow it without paying you.

[Liam]

I've been reading this forum for some time, but this is without question, one of the most ridiculous threads I've ever seen.

I'm not a fan of big movie studios and record labels, but an aawful lot of money goes into placing a message into a medium (whether it be film, music, books). Take away copyrights and you completely take away the incentive for anyone to create. Books stop printing, CDs stop being pressed, movies stop filming.

The people who risk the money on putting out a product that may or may not sell have the right to "own" that product and to sell it.

If you want to undo copyright law, don't b*tch when someone from Texas decides to rewrite A. Proulx's books and claim them as his own. She doesn't have any copyright interests, based on what the lot of you are saying.

[sideshow]

Who cares about Texas? The thread title is "Hollywood muscles Canada". In other words, the US companies are putting pressure on their government to put pressure on our government to change our laws. I say boo hoo. If they don't want to release their movies, music, whatever here-whatever. Someone will fill the void. They will lose much more in profits than they are "losing" (and i use that term as loose as possible) now, and really, maybe it will encourage some industry in Canada rather than our lazy nature to rely on the US for our entertainment. And maybe we dont get to watch "Survivor"-wont make or break my life.

[blueblood]

Umm, my grain and canola. If Hollywood can get copyright protection why can't I?

What is unique about your grain and canola? Copyright can only be applied to unique creations. Canola does not qualify as unique.

However, if you developed a new strain of canola that had some unique feature then you would be able to patent that strain and no one would would be able to grow it without paying you.

That is a matter of opinion. Throw out the copyright laws. Your hiding behind laws again. That's cherrypicking. It's unique in that I put the effort into growing it, it's a plant now my creation, those seeds are my creation now, they wouldn't be there if it wasn't for me. Why can't I collect royalties when it gets manipulated like the entertainment industry? The entertainment industry is the biggest dead horse of an industry, it's time they experienced the free market like the rest of the industries.

Movies and music aren't unique, people acting and singing occurs all the time, why do we need to subsidize that?

[guyser]

Who cares about Texas? The thread title is "Hollywood muscles Canada". In other words, the US companies are putting pressure on their government to put pressure on our government to change our laws. I say boo hoo. If they don't want to release their movies, music, whatever here-whatever. Someone will fill the void. They will lose much more in profits than they are "losing" (and i use that term as loose as possible) now, and really, maybe it will encourage some industry in Canada rather than our lazy nature to rely on the US for our entertainment. And maybe we dont get to watch "Survivor"-wont make or break my life.

Do you really think that way? Read your own post and show us your own hypocrisy.

Here is a hint, "someone will fill the void" ...umm...why would they, you will only steal from them.

This has to be the most frustrating thread I have read. It does seem that "some" in this thread are being obstinent for some perceived media slight. They would never make this arguement if they were face to face with anyone.

[Riverwind]

That is a matter of opinion.

No it isn't. The canola you grow is indistinguishable from canola grown by anyone else. You would have no way to know if canola was grown with your seeds or someone elses. That is not true of movies or any other copywrited works - no matter how many times it is copied the owner can still identify thier creation.

[Liam]

Who cares about Texas? The thread title is "Hollywood muscles Canada". In other words, the US companies are putting pressure on their government to put pressure on our government to change our laws. I say boo hoo. If they don't want to release their movies, music, whatever here-whatever. Someone will fill the void. They will lose much more in profits than they are "losing" (and i use that term as loose as possible) now, and really, maybe it will encourage some industry in Canada rather than our lazy nature to rely on the US for our entertainment. And maybe we dont get to watch "Survivor"-wont make or break my life.

Fine, I am sure there will be plenty of global conglomerates who would be willing to completely rip off the hard work of a film maker from Montreal, a sportswear designer from Vancouver, the author from Toronto, and make millions of dollars off pirated and stolen copies. Who cares that Margaret Atwood spent years researching her latest? Dougls Coupland actually thinks his time and effort is worth something, that it should be protected?? So what if Leonard Cohen thinks he owns his own work product?? "F" them. Sony can make so much more of what they did. They should step aside. Who cares about the integrity of their work, the labor that went into it. They have no ownership in their labor. Screw them. You're right. Eliminate copyrights now. You've convinced me!!!

[guyser]

That is a matter of opinion. Throw out the copyright laws. Your hiding behind laws again. That's cherrypicking. It's unique in that I put the effort into growing it, it's a plant now my creation, those seeds are my creation now, they wouldn't be there if it wasn't for me. Why can't I collect royalties when it gets manipulated like the entertainment industry? The entertainment industry is the biggest dead horse of an industry, it's time they experienced the free market like the rest of the industries.

Movies and music aren't unique, people acting and singing occurs all the time, why do we need to subsidize that?

I have resisted before but time is up. Blueblood ,with all due respect you dont even stop to read nor ponder the issue. Your posts in this thread are simply juvenile.

You were asked what is unique about your Canola. You answered you grew it. Well we know that, but what makes it unique to anyone elses is what "makes it " copyrightable. In other words you cannot make , or rather ,you have not made any "unique" canola. Admit that for god sakes.

And those seeds would not be there if it were not for you. Yea....right. How about the next door farmer and the one after and the one after that. For god sake man, grow a pair and admit the truth.

Or admit you have no idea what you are argueing which is becoming obvious.

Such a dead horse of an industry is it? Does 24.94B domestic revenue (US) seem like a deadhorse, does 25.4B (INT'L) also seem the same?

And where the --- does subsidizing come from. No one is subsidizing it.

[blueblood]

That is not true of movies or any other copywrited works - no matter how many times it is copied the owner can still identify thier creation.

Can the artist go to a store and honestly say I made that particular album, no he sold his talent and the company manipulated it onto a medium and rapidly distributed it, the copies of his talent are indistinguishable like my Canola. He can say that's me on there, but it's not mine. Why should he get paid time and again for already selling his work? Why the cherrypicking?

Good Grief the first nations can easily distinguish their land, they demand to be paid over and over again, even though it was signed over. The treaty system is another copyright system. I'm pretty sure your against the treaty system. They in essence get royalties year after year from signing over the land that the taxpayers have to subsidize. We use and manipulate the land, and they get a cheque every year.

[Riverwind]

Can the artist go to a store and honestly say I made that particular album, no he sold his talent and the company manipulated it onto a medium and rapidly distributed it, the copies of his talent are indistinguishable like my Canola.

Are you trying to claim that an artist cannot recognize his/her own work when it is on a CD? That is ridiculous.

You have to stop confusing the work with the medium. The copywrited work is the song/movie no matter what medium it is distributed on.

[blueblood]

Such a dead horse of an industry is it? Does 24.94B domestic revenue (US) seem like a deadhorse, does 25.4B (INT'L) also seem the same?

And where the --- does subsidizing come from. No one is subsidizing it.

This is my point of view and I have to defend it. The only reason the entertainment industry makes all that money is due to hiding behind copyright laws. In essense we subsidize it.

And those seeds would not be there if it were not for you. Yea....right. How about the next door farmer and the one after and the one after that. For god sake man, grow a pair and admit the truth.

Well that depends on ones point of view. The stuff sold to Bunge from my sales would not be there if it wasn't for me.

The problem here is a difference of beliefs and my lack of being articulate, I'll admit this is getting bloody ridiculous, there's enough points on both sides for an unbiased party to make a decision.

[sideshow]

Who cares about Texas? The thread title is "Hollywood muscles Canada". In other words, the US companies are putting pressure on their government to put pressure on our government to change our laws. I say boo hoo. If they don't want to release their movies, music, whatever here-whatever. Someone will fill the void. They will lose much more in profits than they are "losing" (and i use that term as loose as possible) now, and really, maybe it will encourage some industry in Canada rather than our lazy nature to rely on the US for our entertainment. And maybe we dont get to watch "Survivor"-wont make or break my life.

Do you really think that way? Read your own post and show us your own hypocrisy.

Here is a hint, "someone will fill the void" ...umm...why would they, you will only steal from them.

This has to be the most frustrating thread I have read. It does seem that "some" in this thread are being obstinent for some perceived media slight. They would never make this arguement if they were face to face with anyone.

I know I would. And if you are comfortable with corporations from other countries setting canadian laws on how you can use a product that you purchase with your own dollars, thats your right. I just dont agree.

I would bet that most of the people in the "pro" camp for copyright protection dubbed a music tape or two as a teenager. THIEVES! ALL OF YOU! (and hypocrites ).

[guyser]

Can the artist go to a store and honestly say I made that particular album, no he sold his talent and the company manipulated it onto a medium and rapidly distributed it, the copies of his talent are indistinguishable like my Canola. He can say that's me on there, but it's not mine. Why should he get paid time and again for already selling his work? Why the cherrypicking?

This should work , it damn well better.

OK...take all your canola seeds to the town square tomorrow morning, get other canola growers to do same.

Throw it all in a big goddamned pile.

Now go and pick yours out. Seed by seed.

At the same time, musicians will do the same, thousands of their CD's , numerous artist. They too will throw their goddamned CD's in a pile.

Do you think they will be able to recognize their music, the CD's ? Yes they will . Will you pick your canola seeds out of the pile? No you wont.

Now you see the folly of your arguement????

[guyser]

I know I would. And if you are comfortable with corporations from other countries setting canadian laws on how you can use a product that you purchase with your own dollars, thats your right. I just dont agree.

I would bet that most of the people in the "pro" camp for copyright protection dubbed a music tape or two as a teenager. THIEVES! ALL OF YOU! (and hypocrites ).

Look.....Americans ARE NOT setting CDN laws. Ours is different and they are lobbying for a change. Got it?

Of course I have dubbed a tape. THAT IS NOT ILLEGAL in Canada . It is not illegal to tape, copy nor loan a copy to a friend.

What we are talking about is making a profit from dubbing taping or selling copyrighted material.

Sheesh..

[blueblood]

Can the artist go to a store and honestly say I made that particular album, no he sold his talent and the company manipulated it onto a medium and rapidly distributed it, the copies of his talent are indistinguishable like my Canola. He can say that's me on there, but it's not mine. Why should he get paid time and again for already selling his work? Why the cherrypicking?

This should work , it damn well better.

OK...take all your canola seeds to the town square tomorrow morning, get other canola growers to do same.

Throw it all in a big goddamned pile.

Now go and pick yours out. Seed by seed.

At the same time, musicians will do the same, thousands of their CD's , numerous artist. They too will throw their goddamned CD's in a pile.

Do you think they will be able to recognize their music, the CD's ? Yes they will . Will you pick your canola seeds out of the pile? No you wont.

Now you see the folly of your arguement????

It would work, I'm just looking at it at a completely different angle than you are, and I tried explaining it earlier.