In Ontario, who would you vote for Premier?

[Topaz]

Do you think the Cons have a chance after Harris? Do you like what the Libs have done so far and would you vote the NDP in because you are sick of the other two?

[Remiel]

I'd certainly like Hampton to have a go at it. After the debacle of the first NDP Premiership, they probably aren't going to make the mistake of not having a real plan to govern again. As long as the Cons are still represented by a lot of the same people from the Harris/Eves era, they should wither and die before they are even let to sniff at the reigns again.

[Canuck E Stan]

I'd certainly like Hampton to have a go at it. After the debacle of the first NDP Premiership, they probably aren't going to make the mistake of not having a real plan to govern again. As long as the Cons are still represented by a lot of the same people from the Harris/Eves era, they should wither and die before they are even let to sniff at the reigns again.

Boob Rae messed up Ontario real bad,Harris screwed up,McGinty isn't any better. Ontario is going to go into a minority government situation with probably McGinty holding power by a thread. And the economic downturn in Ontario will make for another election shortly thereafter with McGinty quitting.

I saw this all in my crystal bowling ball

[Posit]

Liberals and McGuinty will be back in a majority government once again. Not only are they legitimately tackling the botchery by Evens and Harris, and of course public service workers have a long memory, but Ontarians aren't totally pleased with Harper. While the federal and provincial elections are separate, Ontario has often voted opposite to the federal party in power and I believe this round will be no exception.

Except for places like Caledonia where people are pissed at McGuinty, for the most part Ontarians are either happy with him, or they don't care (which will work in his favour).

Liberal majority - my prediction.

[madmax]

Boob Rae messed up Ontario real bad,Harris screwed up,McGinty isn't any better. Ontario is going to go into a minority government situation with probably McGinty holding power by a thread. And the economic downturn in Ontario will make for another election shortly thereafter with McGinty quitting.

I saw this all in my crystal bowling ball

Not a bad crystal ball.

[madmax]

Liberals and McGuinty will be back in a majority government once again. Not only are they legitimately tackling the botchery by Evens and Harris,

You want to elaborate on just what they have done?

and of course public service workers have a long memory

Public Sector workers are split between the Conservatives and the Liberals.

Except for places like Caledonia where people are pissed at McGuinty, for the most part Ontarians are either happy with him, or they don't care (which will work in his favour).

The riding belong to Toby Barret Provincially, a Conservative. Federally to Diane Findlay, A useless Federal Conservative, known in the region as "Where's Diane?" McGuinty won't get any support in Caledonia or surrounding areas because of the SWEETHEART deal they gave Henco, and then how abysmally they have handled things for the local inhabitants.

Liberal majority - my prediction.

Sweet Dreams.

[madmax]

I'd certainly like Hampton to have a go at it. After the debacle of the first NDP Premiership, they probably aren't going to make the mistake of not having a real plan to govern again.

I see Hampton as having stuck out some pretty hard times in the political wilderness. The battles of the previous elections have been PC vs Lib only.

[guyser]

Liberals and McGuinty will be back in a majority government once again. Not only are they legitimately tackling the botchery by Evens and Harris, and of course public service workers have a long memory, but Ontarians aren't totally pleased with Harper.

Liberal majority - my prediction.

Come on people, Harris has been gone for a long time. And plenty of what he did was needed. Some of it not so much.

I do not see Mcquinty getting back in. I think John Tory will win, and win a majority.But back in 1992, I was wrong , so maybe I am again

[Posit]

Harris with Eves as his executioner chopped the health care system, the education system, natural resources, transportation and a whole lot more. His intention was to put people on notice to be efficient. The result however was anything but efficient. It killed a bunch of people in Walkerton. Killed a guy at Ipperwash. Put almost every hospital into the red where they are still fighting to provide decent health care with little money, put the educational system in such disarray that there is still a teacher deficit while the school boards lavish in luxurious surroundings without any notice of budgetary constraints. natural Resources got so butchered that they are trying to make profits by selling off the natural resources and contracting out maintenance services which leave parks and natural environments in abysmal condition. That is the Harris legacy and Eves didn't say no.

It really comes back to choice - there is none - so the staus quo most often wins out among the electors.

[guyser]

Harris with Eves as his executioner chopped the health care system, the education system, natural resources, transportation and a whole lot more. His intention was to put people on notice to be efficient. The result however was anything but efficient. It killed a bunch of people in Walkerton. Killed a guy at Ipperwash. Put almost every hospital into the red where they are still fighting to provide decent health care with little money, put the educational system in such disarray that there is still a teacher deficit while the school boards lavish in luxurious surroundings without any notice of budgetary constraints.

I would differ on most of those points.

I agree he put people on notice to be efficient. It is a shame on them for not doing so.

Harris/Eves never killed anyone. Stop propagandizing something that a stupid worker could have stopped if he followed ...oh my gawd...provincial giudelines.Pure and simple the Cabal (sp?) ...er Stan and his brother killed those people by covering up their lack of work, and lack of following guidelines.

The education system is still reeling and rightfully so. The teachers fought a dumb fight. Had teachers of this province stood up and said "we agree that funding needs to be changed--take it out of the middle management where everyone of them has a secretary and full office" then the taxpayers would have backed them on it.

But no, the teachers went on strike, holding hostage all the moms and dads of this province. That was dumb.They earned the scorn heaped on them. The whole while the middle management types were hiding under the desk hoping no one would realize.

As for the healthcare system, I find it works and works pretty well. It needs moree help, but also needs more money to pay nurses.Nurses are the only way a hospital works. They are the godsend to every patient that is in hospital. I know from my experience that they are as instrumentable as the Docs, and in most cases even more so. You want to take some money from the Docs.....you wont get a arguement from me.

And lastly, more Docs are coming to Canada than going the other way around.(last stat eff 2005)

[Posit]

No. Harris killed those people at Walkerton by cutting out mandatory water quality testing that was being done by the MNR.

He also order the murder of Dudley George in a round about way.

He also attempted to cut back the administration of education but the boards were smarter than he and they simply dumped it on to teachers. Teachers are not the bloat in that system and the minute he was out classed he should have retracted. He might have too if his ego didn't get in the way.

There are doctors and nurses working in hospitals although they are often short staffed. However, have you been to a hospital lately? The places are filthy the instruments are contaminated and the c.deficile bacteria infects everything. That's what Harris did. He cut back hospitals to give his buddies a tax break and his legacy kills people every day. Of course he was again outsmarted by hospital admins as they just went to the lowest common denominator.

People remember Harris and they'll be reminded again at election time. He was evil, as evil reigns in politics.

[guyser]

No. Harris killed those people at Walkerton by cutting out mandatory water quality testing that was being done by the MNR.

There are doctors and nurses working in hospitals although they are often short staffed. However, have you been to a hospital lately? The places are filthy the instruments are contaminated and the c.deficile bacteria infects everything. That's what Harris did. He cut back hospitals to give his buddies a tax break and his legacy kills people every day. Of course he was again outsmarted by hospital admins as they just went to the lowest common denominator.

Really? ... you should learn the whys and whats on the Walkerton situation instead of making claims the big bad Harris killed people.

Pretty easy for most people to realize had Stan done his job , had Stan alerted the authorities, had Stan done the testing that he was MANDATED to do, the people would be alive today.

And poor Stan, he almost killed himself over what happened. Dont you think if one were innocent he would not be so traumatized? Nope, Stan knew his actions and his actions alone is what killed the people.But you go ahead and believe whatever you want.

Go ahead and talk to me about hospitals. Bring it on. Obviously you have not been in a hospital lately and are spouting the the same old tired lines.Your post is nothing but conjecture....this happens so I blame Harris. Even though the guy has been out of politics for years now. But dont let that stop you from blaming him on every ill this province suffers.

Unless you are a doctor or nurse, I seriously doubt you have spent anywhere near the time I have and do in hospitals.

C. difficile is a problem, and it stems from sanitation. They need to correct that for sure.

[Posit]

My brother-in-law lives and works in the Walkerton area and my wife is a medical secretary.

I know both places very well. The K brothers wouldn't have had the opportunity to skip getting water samples tested if they could have continued to send them into the Ministry for testing. But Harris cut that out to save a few bucks. "Pass it on to private agencies" he told them. That one move cost people their lives.

The hospitals are a disgraces. Dried blood lines the base of ER walls. Linens are improperly laundered and moral is at its worst. The only saving grace for health concerns are that most of the instruments and equipment are disposable. While this helps prevents the spread of infection and cross contamination, it raises the cost of health care ten fold. Most central service and supply departments had this type of spending under control before Harris. Now CS is manned by outside contractors bidding for the lowest cost. They have to cut corners to make a profit.

[geoffrey]

I'm not following Ontario politics, but vote for whoever has the best plan for the auto industry components.

Many auto corporations will go under if they don't diversify into nearby tangent industries; wind turbine components, hydrogen industry supplies, more value-added engineering design and materials sciences...

It certainly won't come from the Conservative party, alleged baby-killers.

Why should you and I pay for GM to make larger profits?

[geoffrey]

It is the oil companies making record profits in Canada and elsewhere. Many of North America's car and car parts manufacturers will go bankrupt in the next decade or so. I think GM should work to diversify its manfacturing base into growing industries (use lightweight composites to build cars for Asia, wind turbine blades, etc). All of Atlantic Canada can go to the oilpatch but not all of Southern Ontario. Ontario will become a have-not province very rapidly, if use of capital is not undertaken immediately.

They should, and they should do so on their own dime. Corporate welfare is what got GM, Ford and Chrysler into this mess to begin with.

[guyser]

My brother-in-law lives and works in the Walkerton area and my wife is a medical secretary.

I know both places very well. The K brothers wouldn't have had the opportunity to skip getting water samples tested if they could have continued to send them into the Ministry for testing. But Harris cut that out to save a few bucks. "Pass it on to private agencies" he told them. That one move cost people their lives.

I get it you hate Harris. Fine, he has done some that was wrong but dont let facts get in the way of your hate.

The Koeble borthers have convinced only you in their lies...why is that? Maybe your brother in law drinks with them while on the job? Stan and Frank have admitted as much.

Lets see know, Koebel brothers did the following.....

1) failed to keep the water equipment running properly.

2) falsified records.

3)even as early as May 17th, Stan was recieving complaints about the water and knew a problem exists

4)Stan refused to alert the public knowing E coli was present.

5) Stan lied for two days to the Govt officials...sorry what were saying about Harris being responsible?

6) Lab confirmed with Stan that E coli in water sent for testing--sorry what were you saying about testing again? That he wouldnt skip them? You're right, he ignored what they contained

7) Ministry asked again-Stan said no problem here thanks-this was on May21st

8) May 23rd, fax of MHO to Stan finally gets brilliant fathead Stan to admit that he knew the tests were true.

So from May 15 to May 23rd, Stan knew a problem exists with E coli. Yup I sure do see Harris being responsible because you know , his Ministry should have known Stan was lying.

And yet, what was Stan and bro charged with....hmmm....oh yeah

1) public endangerment

2) Forgery and breach of trust

and five more.

So , it is obvious Stan could have averted all of this.

Harris does not come out of this withjout blood on his hands. He did make cuts that he was warned would put people at some risk.

But what he is innocent of is killing anyone. That lies 100% on Stan and his brother Franks head.

[Posit]

Ya ya ya and you are a Harris apologetic......

The K brothers were doing all that a long time before Harris cut the mandatory water testing. When he did then the people started to die. So while two wrongs do not make a right cutting services to pay his friends, Harris' decision was the deadly one.

[guyser]

Ya ya ya and you are a Harris apologetic......

The K brothers were doing all that a long time before Harris cut the mandatory water testing. When he did then the people started to die. So while two wrongs do not make a right cutting services to pay his friends, Harris' decision was the deadly one.

Really?

Are you of a comedic bent? Because that is pretty laughable what you wrote.

So I see when you are spanked in a discussion your comeback is "ya ya ya a Harris apologist" ?

Dont be silly, you even admitted in your post that the K brothers were cheating the system> How can that be Harris' fault?

Koebel killed-harris didnt. I have enough things to dislike Harris about before I need to invent one more like you conveniently did.

[Posit]

Harris prescribed the cutbacks and released municipalities from mandatory water testing. He's guilty as charged.

[guyser]

Harris prescribed the cutbacks and released municipalities from mandatory water testing. He's guilty as charged.

I will try this one last time.But please, can we have some semblance of honesty on this issue?

Stan took samples, it is not that he was not to, he was supposed to and did. He got a fax on May 15th saying E coli in the water. How is that Harris' fault?

Stan never alerted anyone.

May 19th, Health authorities in Walkerton alerted to bloody diarrhea (Docs admit they treated plenty) and the Health people ask Stan..."So Stan , any problems with the water?" Stan= " Nope no problem" How is that Harris' fault?

May 20th- 40 more people in hospital with bloody diarrhea- again Stan asked if any problem. Nope says Stan. How is that Harris' fault?

May 21st- Health board starts its own testing because they suspect Stan is lying. Yup, Stan is lying. The water tests come back and they confront Stan , Stan confirms the fax recieved from the testing lab dated May 19th shows high E coli. Stan then decides to shut his mouth.How is that Harris' fault?

At inquiry Frank Koebel admits to drinking on the job and to routinely FALSIFYING safety tests and records. How is that Haris' fault. Did he sign the records himself? Di he pour the beer down Stan and Franks throats?

January 18th 2002 - Report is released saying that the blame PRIMARLY lies with Stan and Frank but was compounded by the Ministry budget cuts that undermined the MOE to pick up on the falsifying of Stan and Frank.

So go ahead and rail against Harris and ignore what an inquiry found to be the truth. Your call.

[Posit]

Keep telling yourself that. I'm sure you'll eventually convince yourself that Harris had nothing to do with it. And while your head is stuck in the sand could you see if my diamond ring is there? I dropped when I fell down laughing the last time you had your head there.

[guyser]

Keep telling yourself that. I'm sure you'll eventually convince yourself that Harris had nothing to do with it. And while your head is stuck in the sand could you see if my diamond ring is there? I dropped when I fell down laughing the last time you had your head there.

Thank you for your response Posit. You dont like the truth do you?

Oh and thats not your diamond ring , it was my great great great grandmothers, I know you have a receipt but we dont care about that now do we? You stole it from her. It was only worth $10 then but now its worth a million dollars. Please send me a cheque....no no wait, your ilk cannot be trusted, send Canadian cash money.

What an asshat

[Mad_Michael]

It would be a long time since I've voted for any Conservative (Federally or Provincially), but John Tory will have my vote in November, absolutely.

That is - only if he keeps a distance from Harper's federal party. If Harper campaigns with John Tory in Ontario, it will probably cost my vote (I'd spoil it rather than vote McGuinty or NDP).

[madmax]

It would be a long time since I've voted for any Conservative (Federally or Provincially), but John Tory will have my vote in November, absolutely.

Who'd you vote for before?

[guyser]

It would be a long time since I've voted for any Conservative (Federally or Provincially), but John Tory will have my vote in November, absolutely.

Who'd you vote for before?

Geez madmax, you going to trip him up like you did me with that question?

(Bill Davis et al?)